RE: A quick question about grudges (Full Version)

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kalikshama -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/16/2011 5:23:56 PM)

I've never had a physical punishment dynamic. His disapproval/silent treatment distressed me so much that I would apologize/beg for forgiveness, even if I thought I was in the right.

As a masochist, I think I would find physical punishment terribly confusing. While contemplating it, I'm both aroused and repelled.

I second this:

quote:

In my opinion, he needs to be more honest; i.e. 'I like to spank and you will just need to take it'.


/skips off to read another few chapters of The Marketplace, which has LOTS of punishment/



catize -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/16/2011 5:31:48 PM)

quote:

You say its frustrating --- ummm no, actually it wasn't. I don't know where you get that unless of course you are trying to project what YOU enjoy on others.


YEP, if you read the first sentence of my post I already acknowledged that
quote:

I don't have a punishment dynamic, so keep in mind that my answer may be biased.



DesFIP -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/16/2011 5:32:58 PM)

If this happens, it means you folks didn't bother to talk first to see if you were compatible. And that's your own fault. I've been punished just once in eight years and that was to get me to stop beating myself up.

I'm an adult, we talk things out. We had a huge fight a couple of weeks ago with him ranting and me being cold and sarcastic. It wound up, as it always has, that we had totally misunderstood each other. We care about each other so we like to make each other happy. Which is what it comes down to. And if you don't want to see the other smile, then you shouldn't be in a relationship to begin with.

I'm allowed to make mistakes. I would not get into a relationship with anyone who expected me to be letter perfect from day one. I get a learning curve and I get as much help as I need in figuring things out, and being able to do what he wants.

I also don't first thing beat my kids and talk about it after. I sure wouldn't accept that in my relationship either. But of course, he's not a sadist, so he doesn't look for things to 'punish' me as an excuse to indulge his sadism. And that happens all too often.



phoenixmoonn13 -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/17/2011 4:43:30 AM)

we dont have a punishment dynamic as such but if i have done something wrong or if he has said i have even if i dont think so i feel bad about it. for me the way to end it is to have a punishment. i had a very hard one recently and he didn't hug me till the morning as he knows i need one but he wont straight away as it lets it sink in but i will always get one.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/17/2011 4:53:12 AM)

quote:

But of course, he's not a sadist, so he doesn't look for things to 'punish' me as an excuse to indulge his sadism. And that happens all too often.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP


that's what seems to be the issue in the OP, i guess. he calls it a "punishment" to justify it, but she doesn't know what she did wrong or believe she did anything wrong.
maybe that's why he thinks there should be hugs afterward; he's associating it with playing, with something pleasurable, because that's what it is for him -- but it isn't for her?
if you tell me something's a punishment, i'm not going to respond to it like play. though i have to agree with kalikshama (again =p) that it's slightly confusing as a masochist to have physical punishments.






subsfaith -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/17/2011 5:04:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

After a few swats on to but for something I did, he wanted a hug. I asked him (playfully) why he thought I'd want to hug him...


So OP... this is all about you huh?

I ask because this is how you are presenting yourself.  He told you he wanted a hug.... and you ask why he though you'd want to hug him.... you made it all about yourself.  He was being open and sharing his desires with you and you threw it back in his face.

But I also think you'd also be pissed if he didn't tell you what he wanted.

Can he actually please you?

The bottom line is he wanted a hug and you were angry with him. Get over it. You didnt think you deserved the punishment, but you know, that again isn't about you.  That was about his rules, he is after all a dominant man.  If you dont like his rules change your mind or change your man.








CallaFirestormBW -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/17/2011 5:36:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

I'm sure most D/s couples have gone through this. A sub is punished for something she doesn't think is wrong. But the Dom does. Obviously she's upset (but of course she takes her punishment like a champion). My question regards what happens afterwards. After the punishment, the dom is ready to hug and kiss the tears away but the last thing the sub wants is to cuddle with the one who caused her pain in the first place. At least, that's how I felt when it happened. But according to him, my attitude is way off base. I don't necessarily disagree. Time and time again I read stories (written by subs) of harsh punishments that ended in loving kisses and hugs. But I can't help but wonder, why? Wouldn't you be pissed? I know I was pissed.

What makes subs perfectly fine with embracing her punisher right after a punishment (especially one she felt she didn't deserve)? Why is she not upset at the punisher? I'd think everyone would be upset at their punisher. Why am I alone on this? What goes through the subs' and Doms' minds?


This is one reason that I tend not to gravitate towards the "punishment" dynamic. Errors (whether of action or judgment) in our situation are managed through discipline -- which includes making sure that the yielding party understands why what they did was perceived as wrong, gives them an opportunity to explain why they made the choice they did, offers the correct choices that might have been made in their stead, and uses relevant instruction and repetition to reinforce proper action when such situations are encountered again. In 99% of the cases where we've used this method, not only does the yielding party not experience resentment over the punishment (because xhe understands why xhe is being disciplined and how hir perceptions vary from the Keepers perceptions of the event), but xhe rarely makes the same mistake twice.

The 1%? -- those individuals typically were "repeat offenders" for whom it wasn't an innocent mistake -- they intentionally disobeyed or selectively "heard" the instructions they were given and made a conscious decision to act inappropriately. We did not punish these folks, unless one considers showing them that there was a well-defined exit "punishment".

For the OP -- was it explained to you why, even though you did not see your mistake, the one who held authority over you did? If not, perhaps when things have settled out you could ask (in whatever protocol your relationship requires) that in the future you are given the opportunity to learn where your error was, so that you will understand why you are being punished and how to avoid it in the future. I know that won't help with -this- situation, but it may help prevent escalating resentment.

For this situation, the thing that seems most important is that you understand that you've chosen a life where someone else gets to decide what is right and what is wrong -- and if you truly embrace that choice, then when such things happen, it is possible to take a breath, remind yourself that it is not -your- decision that matters, and accept your punishment. From that place, maybe it will be possible for you to accept that the one who holds authority over you wants you to know that xhe still loves you, even when xhe feels that xhe must discipline you, and you will be able to accept such displays with grace.

Calla



allthatjaz -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/17/2011 5:37:49 AM)

I am the complete opposite of you op,
I'm not a submissive but I am a masochist and therefore physical punishment under the umbrella of BDSM would be one of two things to me. Enjoyable because I like the pain and silly because to punish me he would be showing his authority in a BDSM sort of way. Saying that we once had an argument that became a blazing row. I could see he was losing his temper but I kept pushing my point in a heated way. He suddenly swung the kicking and fighting me over his knee and beat my ass. That didn't feel like D/s to me. It felt like a controlled angry man subduing me.
He was still angry after he had done it and I just stood looking at him in quiet disbelief but what I did 'get' was, that if I couldn't curb my own heated temper then he would deal with me and it could get physical but that physical side, even with his temper (and believe me he's got a mean one) would be controlled enough to treat me like a child.
For me at least, a cuddle after that particular incident would of made it feel more like a BDSM and that wouldn't of been at all memorable, just annoying.

Only you can get your own head round this incident and only talking about it with your Master/partner can sort things out. He's in a horrible place right now and I feel for him.



NuevaVida -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/17/2011 8:12:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subsfaith

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

After a few swats on to but for something I did, he wanted a hug. I asked him (playfully) why he thought I'd want to hug him...


So OP... this is all about you huh?

I ask because this is how you are presenting yourself.  He told you he wanted a hug.... and you ask why he though you'd want to hug him.... you made it all about yourself.  He was being open and sharing his desires with you and you threw it back in his face.




This is kind of how I see it.  Daddy gives me hugs and cuddles to feed my emotions, even if he doesn't really feel like it.  It's what we do for each other.  We keep the health of the relationship first, and if one of us needs an emotional feeding from the other, we give it, and talk through any issues later.

That said, I was a bit surprised (if I read it right) that he told you "normal" people understand and only children don't....Um, what??  I don't get that at all, and such crazy accusations wouldn't make me feel very huggy-feely, either.

I've been punished before for things I didn't think I deserved.  Didn't happen much, but it happened. We're not always going to agree with each other.  I took the punishment, because a relationship in which I trusted my owner's decisions for me is what I signed up for.  After, we talked about it, and then let it go.  As someone else said here, resentment is a relationship-killer.  Do you understand why he is punishing you?  Because understanding your punishment will go a lot farther than whether or not you agree with it.  Do you trust his decisions?  Do you talk about the punishments so he also understands your feelings? 



cpK69 -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/17/2011 9:03:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

What makes subs perfectly fine with embracing her punisher right after a punishment (especially one she felt she didn't deserve)? Why is she not upset at the punisher? I'd think everyone would be upset at their punisher.


The short answer: acceptance… of the position I agreed to take, thereby, giving him the authority to make such decisions. The term ‘deserved’ doesn’t fit into this type of thinking; I’m only concerned with needs being met, and that I’m not being forced into a situation, in a manner that would constitute misuse.

Attitude is the result of perspective; do you really see him as your punisher, or was that word used strictly for writing purposes?

Kim



LadyPact -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/17/2011 9:43:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

I'm sure most D/s couples have gone through this. A sub is punished for something she doesn't think is wrong. But the Dom does. Obviously she's upset (but of course she takes her punishment like a champion). My question regards what happens afterwards. After the punishment, the dom is ready to hug and kiss the tears away but the last thing the sub wants is to cuddle with the one who caused her pain in the first place. At least, that's how I felt when it happened. But according to him, my attitude is way off base. I don't necessarily disagree. Time and time again I read stories (written by subs) of harsh punishments that ended in loving kisses and hugs. But I can't help but wonder, why? Wouldn't you be pissed? I know I was pissed.

What makes subs perfectly fine with embracing her punisher right after a punishment (especially one she felt she didn't deserve)? Why is she not upset at the punisher? I'd think everyone would be upset at their punisher. Why am I alone on this? What goes through the subs' and Doms' minds?

Here's what goes through My mind:

The whole 'didn't deserve it' thing doesn't work for Me.  I don't punish unless I am well past the point of the rules being firmly in place and obedience in that area is expected.  So, if a) you knew the rule and b) didn't obey it, unless we're talking about some abstract thing like a situation that isn't under your control, an illness, etc, etc, it's really hard for Me to come up with a situation where you didn't deserve the punishment.  That's not even counting any progressive discipline that's been applied in the situation and the amount of time that we've spent communicating about it so the expectations are clear on the subject. 

If all of that is in place, I'm kind of wondering how the sub is deciding (didn't deserve it) what should be a matter that falls under My authority?  A punishment dynamic, by definition, says that I have the right to punish if I see fit.  That would seem to Me to include if My expectations aren't being met in some way.





CherryNeko -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/17/2011 11:22:43 AM)

I can give you my submissive’s-perspective:
You are not alone, you are just not communicating well with Him.

Okay yes, your attitude is off base, but it’s just because of a misunderstanding. A punishment, for those of us who are not pain whores, is the way in which our Dominant tries to educate us. When you agreed to let him in control, you gave him the power to punish you as he pleased.

Your Dom should make sure you understand why you are being punished. If he didn’t explain, and you seriously didn’t know, then it’s lack of communication. You should talk about it. You should not be punished until you both agree that you deserve it. I mean, you will be punished, but you should wait until you both know why it is happening, and why it was wrong.

If you don’t think you did something wrong, and he thinks you did, chances are you’re wrong. If it displeases him in the least, then it’s wrong, and you should avoid doing it.

If you don’t want to cuddle with him, then maybe 1) you’re resenting him, which means you’re taking it too seriously and thinking too much about something that doesn’t concern you, or 2) you really should look for another Dom. It is not natural to want your Dom away from you, especially when the punishment ended. However, I still think your problem is just lack of communication.

No, I would not be pissed, especially not at him. It’s not his fault if I screwed up, is it? If I made him uncomfortable, or forgot about a rule, or just ignored it, why would I be pissed at him? It was my fault. I would be happy that he’s willing to give me another chance, and that he won’t hold grudges against me.

My advice is, talk about it. However, I feel your post is missing information. What did you do? Why was it wrong? Did you even think it could be wrong? Did it break any rules? If not, did you ask for an explanation? Do you plan on talking about it?



Missokyst -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/17/2011 12:16:26 PM)

I dislike being hugged unless I am ready for it. I would not be ready for it if I felt that the hug was supposed to make me feel better about something which I viewed unfairly. Of course, I would allow it, but it would not be heartfelt. If this was something that only happened once in a while, no biggie. But if I were punished and hugged to get back into a good mood..? PHhhht. Too much of that and I would walk.
The thing is though, that anyone I am in a serious relationship knows me well enough to know a hug and all is better is not going to fly.
Stepping away for a bit while I reset works. My ex-husband used to yell and then do the hug... *cringe*. That's why he is the ex.



sunshinemiss -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/17/2011 1:33:11 PM)

Sunny
Quote of the day
goes to
AquaticSub
[sm=cute.gif]
for
I think of what we do as a big sundae.
You aren't required to use every topping,
just the ones that are mutually enjoyable



Hotch -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/17/2011 2:15:26 PM)

I stripe her ass crimson red because I love to do it. She never feels any resentment, because she knows there's no reason behind the whipping other then my perverse desires. Cuddling afterward is bonding for the both of us. For me, it's an expression of love and gratitude for the suffering she's endured to please me. For her, it's a soothing and bonding affirmation that she's given herself to me, understands my desires and DOES NOT hold a grudge because of her suffering. To make spankings/ whippings a punishment would change an intense activity that expresses a selfless offering and grateful acceptance, to something negative and vengeful. I could never allow that to happen. If she (or I) do something that upsets the other person, we vent our concern and anger like every other 'nilla' couple. I save punishment for children who are having trouble learning life's lessons with milder forms of direction.

So no. The punishment dynamic is not part of my relationship. I don't blame a sub for being resentful if she's endured a painful punishment she thinks is unjust. She's been hurt and BLAMED. Why would she want to cuddle under those circumstances? The whole idea is very distasteful to me.



DesFIP -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/17/2011 4:00:54 PM)

The other thing the op still needs to learn is how to communicate clearly and effectively. If he forcibly punishes you, and you believe it uncalled for, or you do not understand why, and he then says he is no longer angry and wants a hug, the appropriate response is not to be passive aggressive, playfully disagreeing. The appropriate response is to say "I'm angry at you now. I don't believe I broke any rule. I was never told not to do what I did. You never told me why you were punishing me or what I did wrong. And I don't want to hug you because I am filled with anger and resentment." You use words, you don't act one way while feeling the opposite. You clearly express the problem and then the two of you hammer out rules for the future that don't include being punished for no reason. That does include him saying he's horny and wants to spank your ass hard. But not claiming you did something wrong when it is a lie.



Siege -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/17/2011 11:00:08 PM)

I am rednicky's bf. 

This whole question stemmed from a recent spanking I gave her, which would be more "funishment" as some people would describe it.  I told her to come help me make dinner, she said no, twice, and ran away.  She returned submissively about 2 seconds later.  I asked her how many times she said no to me, "two..." then gave her two spanks.  Afterwards I smiled at her and gave her a hug, and kissed her forehead. 

At which point she asked me, "Why do you always want to hug me after you spank me?"  This question came up before, and I always brushed it off, "It's normal."  "Because all is forgiven now."  "Why wouldn't I?"  Or some such answer.  She wanted to know why I didn't expect her to hold a grudge, I told her because she isn't 6 years old.  She suggested bringing up the question here, and I supported the idea. 

I don't insist she hug me if she is resentful.  We don't have a problem communicating our expectations.  We are not dishonest about our desires.  I don't look for excuses to punish her to indulge my sadism.  And if you don't ignore all her other posts since the OP, we are very compatible.

I have always hugged after a spanking.  Whether it's a playful spanking, and it's still fun, or it's a punishment spanking, and I want to comfort her.  I've always done this in past relationships and never thought to question or examine it.  It just seems right, and that's the best answer I could give to rednicky.  She wanted a better answer and so came here. 



angelikaJ -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/18/2011 12:43:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Siege

I am rednicky's bf. 

This whole question stemmed from a recent spanking I gave her, which would be more "funishment" as some people would describe it.  I told her to come help me make dinner, she said no, twice, and ran away.  She returned submissively about 2 seconds later.  I asked her how many times she said no to me, "two..." then gave her two spanks.  Afterwards I smiled at her and gave her a hug, and kissed her forehead. 

At which point she asked me, "Why do you always want to hug me after you spank me?"  This question came up before, and I always brushed it off, "It's normal."  "Because all is forgiven now."  "Why wouldn't I?"  Or some such answer.  She wanted to know why I didn't expect her to hold a grudge, I told her because she isn't 6 years old.  She suggested bringing up the question here, and I supported the idea. 

I don't insist she hug me if she is resentful.  We don't have a problem communicating our expectations.  We are not dishonest about our desires.  I don't look for excuses to punish her to indulge my sadism.  And if you don't ignore all her other posts since the OP, we are very compatible.

I have always hugged after a spanking.  Whether it's a playful spanking, and it's still fun, or it's a punishment spanking, and I want to comfort her.  I've always done this in past relationships and never thought to question or examine it.  It just seems right, and that's the best answer I could give to rednicky.  She wanted a better answer and so came here. 



quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

I'm sure most D/s couples have gone through this. But the Dom does. Obviously she's upset (but of course she takes her punishment like a champion). My question regards what happens afterwards. After the punishment, the dom is ready to hug and kiss the tears away but the last thing the sub wants is to cuddle with the one who caused her pain in the first place. At least, that's how I felt when it happened. But according to him, my attitude is way off base. I don't necessarily disagree. Time and time again I read stories (written by subs) of harsh punishments that ended in loving kisses and hugs. But I can't help but wonder, why? Wouldn't you be pissed? I know I was pissed.

What makes subs perfectly fine with embracing her punisher right after a punishment (especially one she felt she didn't deserve)? Why is she not upset at the punisher? I'd think everyone would be upset at their punisher. Why am I alone on this? What goes through the subs' and Doms' minds?



2 things that seem to be related to one issue.

It may be "funishment" in that it was playful and not punitive to you, but she doesn't really understand that.
She doesn't read spanking the same way you do... .
For her spanking is something she doesn't get and in her head, spanking is bad...except she does like that it turns you on.

And according to her: A sub is punished for something she doesn't think is wrong.

I think nicky has an issue with understanding concrete boundaries.
This is not a put down of her, just an observation based upon this and other posts.

Nicky isn't submissive and doesn't really like to play by your rules and so she maybe she isn't incorporating those rules into her psyche.

She does like to play, she does like to tease... she knew she was going to get a rise out of you... but she now says she didn't do anything wrong.
Well, she kind of didn't. It's her game.
Until she has an understanding and agrees that it is someone else's game with someone else's rules, she going to continue to not understand that those 2 fun slaps were fair. It has nothing to do with her balking at making dinner.

Her holding a grudge isn't productive though, whether it is because she felt it wasn't fair... or because she didn't get to play by her rules.

Resentments kill relationships, even when they are perfect in every other way.



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/18/2011 1:53:03 AM)

quote:

This whole question stemmed from a recent spanking I gave her, which would be more "funishment" as some people would describe it. I told her to come help me make dinner, she said no, twice, and ran away. She returned submissively about 2 seconds later. I asked her how many times she said no to me, "two..." then gave her two spanks. Afterwards I smiled at her and gave her a hug, and kissed her forehead.


Hi. I guess that the disconnect came because nicky didn't really see those two "lovepats" as "fun". I guess the most relevant response I can make is the same one that I make when people tell me I have no sense of humor when I don't laugh at some joke that is poking fun at another person who clearly doesn't think it's funny -- it's only fun if everyone involved is laughing.

I think that it sounds like there may be some hidden resentment that you either haven't seen or don't understand and therefore have sort of brushed off, and maybe there's still some confusion about how your dynamic is actually going to play itself out -- but in any case, the fact that nicky DID feel it necessary to come here to talk this out sort of says that she didn't understand and that there was some bobble in the communication between you.

I'll echo what's been said earlier -- if fear is the mindkiller (please forgive the Dune paraphrase), then hidden or ignored resentment is definitely the relationship-killer.

JMTC,
Calla



kalikshama -> RE: A quick question about grudges (1/18/2011 3:17:44 AM)

It's delightful to hear the other side for a change! As it happened below, it sounds like she was deliberately bratty, cruisin for a bruisin.

rednicky, are the facts materially correct?

If so, he asked for help, you were a brat, hell yes you deserved the spanking and you were lucky to get a hug.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Siege

I am rednicky's bf. 

This whole question stemmed from a recent spanking I gave her, which would be more "funishment" as some people would describe it.  I told her to come help me make dinner, she said no, twice, and ran away.  She returned submissively about 2 seconds later.  I asked her how many times she said no to me, "two..." then gave her two spanks.  Afterwards I smiled at her and gave her a hug, and kissed her forehead. 

At which point she asked me, "Why do you always want to hug me after you spank me?"  This question came up before, and I always brushed it off, "It's normal."  "Because all is forgiven now."  "Why wouldn't I?"  Or some such answer.  She wanted to know why I didn't expect her to hold a grudge, I told her because she isn't 6 years old.  She suggested bringing up the question here, and I supported the idea. 

I don't insist she hug me if she is resentful.  We don't have a problem communicating our expectations.  We are not dishonest about our desires.  I don't look for excuses to punish her to indulge my sadism.  And if you don't ignore all her other posts since the OP, we are very compatible.

I have always hugged after a spanking.  Whether it's a playful spanking, and it's still fun, or it's a punishment spanking, and I want to comfort her.  I've always done this in past relationships and never thought to question or examine it.  It just seems right, and that's the best answer I could give to rednicky.  She wanted a better answer and so came here. 





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