RE: consideration? (Full Version)

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allthatjaz -> RE: consideration? (1/21/2011 4:55:48 AM)

Great to see you back IronBear. I for one have missed your posts [:)]




IronBear -> RE: consideration? (1/21/2011 5:18:56 AM)

Thank you Lass. I have missed reading yours too. Mayhap this year I can complete some of the Needle Play art work and send you photos.










IronBear -> RE: consideration? (1/21/2011 5:21:58 AM)

Where I come from, it is considered impolite and indeed rude to comment on typos made by dyslexic folk ergo you have indeed failed a basic test. 




CaringandReal -> RE: consideration? (1/21/2011 5:23:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Buzzzz

The "under consideration" is a bunch of bull.. One way to take a submissive out of the market , like someone says... Another way to control (imo, the wrong way)


What is wrong with taking someone out of the market? Wasn't that the whole idea in high school when young couples announced they were going steady? To me, "under consideration" means that the person with the most power is quite interested in the person with lesser power, enough to want to exclusively get to know them without the less powerful person running all over the board and "getting to know" other dominants at the same time (aka playing the field). If the submissive isn't at a place where she agrees that a more exclusive "getting to know you" phase would be a good thing, all she has to do is refuse to be "placed under consideration" and go back to flitting around from dominant to dominant, until she finds a better fit, one who does make her want to be exclusive. She loses the attention of that single dominant, but since she wasn't willing to give anything to retain it, she clearly didn't value it very highly, so what's the big deal? It seems only fair and right that a dominant would want someone they were examining for appropriateness to be focused exclusively on them: that allows for a close, detailed examination, which often includes exercises in obedience, devotion, and the testing of other long-term traits. If a submissive is serving ten (or even three or even one) other dominants besides you, how can she perform well in such exercises? When two teens went steady, there was no understanding or commitment to marriage. It simply meant, "I like you so very much that that I want to be romantic with you, and only you, at this time." That is how I see "under consideration."

(As a personal aside, this question of "under consideration" never seems to arise between myself and a dominant becuase my mind doesn't work in any other way. If I become interested in someone, I become _very_ interested in them, and the thought of exploring submission with other dominants at the same time seems anathma to me. Impossible to do. I tell somebody that I am intensely interested in them early on--maybe that's why nobody's ever bothered to declare me "under consideration." That sort of thing is a complete given with me. It doesn't need to be declared.)

I also disagree about it being a wrong way to control, but I do agree that an "under consideration" state is a form control. A lot of what dominants like to do, particularly potential masters, is control the environments of their slaves or subs, control their inputs and outputs. One of the mildest and lightest forms such control can take (and thus a good way to test the constancy of a submissive whose "flakiness level" you are uncertain of because you do not know him or her very well) is to set this small rule over their relationship inputs: feel free talk to anyone you like, enjoy your friendships, but submit only to my will. If you want to determine whether someone is capable of submitting only to your will (and not also to others) how else do you expect to determine this except by ordering them to do so and then seeing what happens? Are you supposed to take a stranger you've met over the Internet at their word about something this important to you? If so please send $10,000 to my Paypal acount. I swear on a stack of bibles I'll repay you next week. See, I am a submissive and you have my word. That's enough...isn't it? :)

And why should a state of "under consideration" mean "...therefore I promise to be your master forever" if you have no idea whatsoever yet if this person is capable of serving you the way you want or need in the long term. Once you have an answer to that question, it makes sense to move on to something a bit more permanent, but until you do, it seems extremely foolish to me for either party to prematurely commit. If the very best (most accurate) way of discovering whether a submissive can so serve is by exploring their abilities in an exclusive although tentative arrangement, then where is the logic in refraining to do so?

I realize fully that the "under consideration" is abused in ridiculous ways and used to mask other dynamics, but rather than be up in arms about the concept as a result, I am up in arms about the half-witted, flakey insincere people that you find on both sides of the power continuum who abuse and misuse all power-exchange concepts, make them all look bad. The concept of "under consideration" is itself is sound, if practiced with awareness and intelligence.




RapierFugue -> RE: consideration? (1/21/2011 5:32:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Where I come from, it is considered impolite and indeed rude to comment on typos made by dyslexic folk ergo you have indeed failed a basic test. 


Well a) I didn't know you were dyslexic, b) it wouldn't have altered my amusement if I had, given the statement in context (which was exquisite) and c) if you're going to write in such a pompous, overblown “style” (which BTW, has fuck-all to do with Edwardian or Victorian writing styles – you might want to actually read a few books from the era before making that assertion), while suggesting that you're a teacher when you're not then I’m afraid you're going make yourself look very, very silly. With or without my help in pointing it out. Oh and d), “failing a basic test” has nothing whatsoever to do with perceived “rudeness”. Unless it’s “Not Being As Pompous As IronBear, Nor Having A Sense Of Humour Bypass: 101”, in which case it’s a test I'm happy to “fail” – if ever I'm tempted to seek the validation of Internet Blow-Hards I’ll be sure to let you know.

Evolution alone knows what “Life Skills” you teach, but creative writing isn't one of them.




RapierFugue -> RE: consideration? (1/21/2011 5:42:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal
What is wrong with taking someone out of the market? Wasn't that the whole idea in high school when young couples announced they were going steady?


In theory, absolutely nothing. In practice, what seems (note seems, I’m not claiming this as a definitive and exhaustive study) to happen is that a dominant has removed the sub’s choice (choice here meaning field of choice, not personal choice, if you follow me) without actually doing very much of anything in return. The dominant then (and again this is from observation and isn't true of all cases, at least I hope not) is free to delineate the sub’s terms of reference/fill their head full of bullshit (delete as appropriate). It tends to end up with the sub getting very little and the dom doing very little.

I know it shouldn’t be like that, but I've seen it happen that way quite a number of times.

If someone’s interested in a sub then they should go for it – I have enough confidence to be able to say to a girl “by all means chat to whomever you choose to while we’re starting out” because I'm confident of either a) still being the first choice at the end of the process if things go well or b) being man enough to say “I don't think we’re compatible” if things don't.

All “consideration” often seems to be is an internet version of that thing the Germans do when on holiday; bung a beach towel over the loungers by the pool the night before, so they can “stake them” for their own use the morning after*.

I accept that your experience, and that of others, may differ, of course.

*my grandfather used to collect them up and lob them all in the pool the night before :)




CaringandReal -> RE: consideration? (1/21/2011 5:45:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeautyDebased

Saying someone looks like a idiot or stupid because of a few words on their profile isn't nice either, I don't care what people have on their profiles, everyone's entitled to do it their way, whatever works for them.


I rather like it when someone uses that to attack me. It means they are so totally lame and incompetent at addressing my arguments that they have to dig out the personal to try to discredit me: the old ad-hominem attack. When someone does that, it's as if they've just declared to the world at the top of their lungs, " HAY EVERYBODY, I IS TOO STUPID TO MUSTER AN ARGUMENT AGAINST HER! PLEASE SHOOT ME NOW!" I usually do. With words. :)

Yes, these forums are very aggressive, especially to new posters. You have to persist, and return rational but also highly critical (where due) responses back or ignore the grossest stupidities. After about 600 posts or so (yeah, it take about that long, unless you are willing to be a total suck-up) the biggest of the bullies give up on you, they start to leave you alone, as you have become an "accepted irritant." ;) Until that time, though, it can be rather rough sailing.

I also agree with you about the smilies here. Creepy to totally suck, per my personal aesthetics. I never touch them, but I do put plenty of text emoticons into my messages.




allthatjaz -> RE: consideration? (1/21/2011 5:46:22 AM)

Great post CaringandReal and it says it all, at least to me.
I have to admit that when we initially looked on here for a fem sub, we didn't use the words 'under consideration' but we became highly suspicious that this particular fem sub had a stable of dominants she was talking to. That hunch turned out to be right but it took a lot of wasted time and effort before we knew for sure. Perhaps if we had suggested 'under consideration' in her profile, we could of found out much earlier that she had no intention of remaining loyal.
When we initially flicked through profiles in the attempt to find a fem sub, we didn't stop to read a profile and we certainly wouldn't of contacted anyone that stated 'under consideration' in their profile. That would of been like chatting up a woman in a bar whilst her boyfriend had nipped to the gents.




Krypto -> RE: consideration? (1/21/2011 6:54:45 AM)

i've always thought it was simply a polite way to indicate that a slave is still unowned, but their availability may be limited at this time.




TNDommeK -> RE: consideration? (1/21/2011 4:21:23 PM)

I think I totally agree with Krypto. I think when you are seriously talking with a sub/slave, and she is in the process of relocating to your home(meaning within a few weeks or a month, she will be with her new owner), before you put a physical collar on her....its a way of stating she isnt available for new Dom/mes to approach her in that way. but I think in so many instances, it is used incorrectly, or loosely. just a thought




porcelaine -> RE: consideration? (1/21/2011 4:37:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

(As a personal aside, this question of "under consideration" never seems to arise between myself and a dominant becuase my mind doesn't work in any other way. If I become interested in someone, I become _very_ interested in them, and the thought of exploring submission with other dominants at the same time seems anathma to me. Impossible to do. I tell somebody that I am intensely interested in them early on--maybe that's why nobody's ever bothered to declare me "under consideration." That sort of thing is a complete given with me. It doesn't need to be declared.)


Greetings CaringandReal,

I used to operate the same way in the past and found it very difficult to maintain communication with multiple prospects if a particular person captured my fancy. However, when I posed this question some time ago I received a response that would alter my approach and serve as a great reference point going forward. Although I'm not opposed to the concept of consideration, in my opinion it is not appropriate until I have a clear idea of who I'm considering beforehand. For me, it serves as a concrete decision between both parties to explore a specific way of relating with one another. As such, in the beginning I'm more inclined to become better acquainted with the man before the other elements enter the fray. This doesn't suggest they won't reveal themselves from time to time, but the expectations on either side are tempered until we're both cognizant of where things are heading collectively.

Namaste,

~porcelaine




Buzzzz -> RE: consideration? (1/21/2011 4:48:38 PM)

I have some friends who I consider masters , and I never saw them put a "under consideration" tag on someone..I understand what it means, it just isn't used like that.. I have a friend who had that "tag" put on her , and the amount of emails/contact/etc from other doms kinda totally disappeared... It wasn't what she wanted , as she is poly and "was thinking about going with dom1".... Dom1 , basically "took her out of the market".. Just my experience.




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