RE: Lacking (Full Version)

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lilredsubmarine -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 6:29:38 AM)

twistedwillow: i think i understand exactly how you feel/what you were trying to say in your OP, as i have felt the same sort of commiseration for vanilla folk. i only recently (early last year) discovered my missing puzzle piece; that is, i am a freakin submissive! Woohooooo!!

And there is a whole community of people out there who actually DO the stuff that i've been fantasizing about for years!! High-fives all round!!

The sort of attention and fulfillment and dynamic that i crave from a relationship can actually be achieved; it's not just a pipe dream!! Huzzah!!

i am so, so effing happy about this.

And so i want everyone else to be this happy as well. i want everyone (especially my friends!) to find THEIR missing puzzle piece and to discover THEIR neglected true self and to see all those beautiful colours of the rainbow that bdsm is for me. And so i had felt somewhat sorry for the vanilla folk, as they apparently don't get to experience the joy and fulfillment that i do because they don't participate in the thing that gives me that happiness-- bdsm.

But i have been realising more and more lately (and even moreso after reading some of the posts in this thread) that just because bdsm is MY puzzle piece that lets me experience all those beautiful colours, that doesn't mean that it is necessarily everyone ELSE's puzzle piece, too (hell, some are even lucky enough not to have been missing any pieces to begin with!). They can still see the colours, they just view them through a different looking-glass. Different strokes for different folks. (fuck i really do love that saying.)


BonesFromAsh: Your analogy with the pepper-chocolate was ridiculously spot on. Actually, it really spoke to me and helped things 'click' for me even more, so thankyou. [:)]

purepleasure: Those explanations you gave to a vanilla are brilliant! i couldn't even work out how to describe this stuff to myself, let alone to anybody else. Well done!






twistedwillow -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 12:59:24 PM)

purepleasure, I love that analogy, thank you.

DesFIP, you are perfectly entitled to feel that way, I know it is wrong and my friends know it is wrong, but thats ok, it is your opinion.


People sharing opinions and speaking their minds are what forums are all about sunshinemiss.


littlewonder the comment about 'We" are more open-minded about everything or everyone else, actually touches on something I was thinking about as I went to bed last night... there were one or two comments made on this thread about vanillas thinking I\WE are lacking, so my question now is, to the general public, why do you think that "THEY" ( vanillas ) would thing "WE" are lacking or deficient... to me, for people to assume that because someone is vanilla that they don't understand the adrenaline rush is arrogant.
To use a previously used analogy, I don't get skydiving, can't imagine throwing myself out of a perfectly good aeroplane, however I understand the high and adrenaline rush that is received from a similar type activity.
I want to share my world and my particular high with people, I know I can't but doesn't stop me wanting to. But maybe that is because I believe that vanilla people are more open minded than many here seem to give them credit for.
Yes my OP was very badly worded, but the intention behind it was not arrogance or any such stupidity.



sunshinemiss -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 1:38:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

And indeed, your attitude that anyone who doesn't enjoy exactly what you do has never grown at all, is wearing blinders is beyond arrogance and well into intolerable rudeness.




QFT since ... ummmm... yeah. Go Celeste.



twistedwillow -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 2:33:57 PM)

I guess it is lucky for me that the people who know me, know how blindingly, glaringly wrong your assumption about me is ...

You assume my attitude from a few words. Again, perfectly within your right to do so.
I have formed opinions of various people based on their words as well ... probably entirely incorrect.
I am not arrogant enough, unlike some, to say so.

Have to say, never been called arrogant before ... usually I am not 'arrogant enough'

But I guess I am merely human, maybe I am just a vanilla at heart, as apparently "weel twue kinksters' don't fuck up, and twue ones, never say the wrong thing, and twue ones never think uncharitable thoughts, and twue ones never wish they could share the beauty they see with others.

Well fuck, there goes music and art lovers, and often extreme sports people as well ...

arrogantly yours,



FukinTroll -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 2:39:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twistedwillow

I guess it is lucky for me that the people who know me, know how blindingly, glaringly wrong your assumption about me is ...

You assume my attitude from a few words. Again, perfectly within your right to do so.
I have formed opinions of various people based on their words as well ... probably entirely incorrect.
I am not arrogant enough, unlike some, to say so.

Have to say, never been called arrogant before ... usually I am not 'arrogant enough'

But I guess I am merely human, maybe I am just a vanilla at heart, as apparently "weel twue kinksters' don't fuck up, and twue ones, never say the wrong thing, and twue ones never think uncharitable thoughts, and twue ones never wish they could share the beauty they see with others.

Well fuck, there goes music and art lovers, and often extreme sports people as well ...

arrogantly yours,



I am going to urge you to back pedal jus a lil bit here for you know not how big of bite you are about to attempt to chew. Go back and read your previous posts, objectively, and see why you are getting the responses you have received. Your footing is quite shaky right now, however you still have a chance to remedy that and make your point a little more tactfully and clearly.



sexyred1 -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 2:52:06 PM)

What is it lately with the need to overshare one's participation in the lovely world of BDSM? I mean, really, are other people crying out for enlightenment of this kind
? I understand wanting to share your happiness with others in your life, but seriously? Making allusions to the deficiency in others if the disagree or lack the knowledge, or interest in what you do, is obviously ridiculously arrogant and puzzling to me.

I am in sales. I get paid to evangelize a value proposition for my company and it's services. I often have to evangelize this to people who are not interested in what we offer. But I still have to do it since I get paid and the lack of interest on the prospect's part is usually because they have not heard of us or they use another vendor.

However...and this is important, the reason they are even a prospect in the first place is because they are known to us as users of this type of service.

Now, take the OP: evangelizing your value proposition about how great BDSM is to people who have no interest, inclination, preference or ideas about it, is a waste of time and makes an assumption that those people are lacking in their happiness quotient.

I know vanilla people who are blissfully happy and others not so much. I doubt trying to convince them that they should try BDSM would fall on deaf ears.



twistedwillow -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 3:04:01 PM)

FukinTroll, I have tried to be tactful, I have acknowledged the OP was seriously badly worded.
And I have tried to explain what I mean, and apparently failed.

I don't believe personal attacks are warranted but that is what some seem to fall back on.

I freely admit I am not perfect and I fuck up on a regular basis, but it seems to me others are so perfect that they do not.
C'est la vie.

Sexyred1, I do not try and 'convert' everyone, and again, my OP was badly worded.

Time for me to go to work, and clearly people prefer to call me arrogant rather than try and understand what I mean.
So I will do with those people, what apparently I should do with vanillas, and that is not explain, and not share ideas.
And simply ASS-U-ME they are closed minded and unable to understand.




kalikshama -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 3:14:40 PM)

As Easton and Liszt put it in their wonderful book on bottoming,
"One useful metaphor is to think of BDSM as "graduate school sex," that you do after lots of study and practice. S/M is sex that engages the whole person: our bodies, our intellects, our emotions, our tool making abilities, our imaginations, our hearts and our souls."

With appreciation for what I have, rather than scorn for what others lack, I'm with the OP.



slaveluci -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 5:12:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: twistedwillow

A couple of days ago I was discussing WIITWD with a friend, and we were discussing vanillas and how they just don't 'get' it.

And I found myself pitying them for their lack of, growth? Not the word I am looking for, but hard to describe exactly what I mean. Kind of like, pitying them for being born deficient.
I realise this is a rather arrogant view, and one I wasn't aware of having until the other day during the conversation. But I was wondering how many others have a similar view?

I guess in a way I feel like I see a rainbow of colours before me and I want to share the beauty with others but they only see 2 or 3 different colours so don't understand the complexities and beauty they are missing.

Not really a question more a muse,
So do others have a similar view? Despite the fact that, yes, it is an arrogant view.


Arrogant, yes, and bigoted. They may see lots of colors, as you put it, just not the same ones you do. "Pitying" them or saying they just "don't get it" is akin to what you feel THEY do. It's wrong from either viewpoint.

Just because someone is "vanilla" doesn't mean they are boring or stifled or not growing. It means they like what they like, not what you like. I think it takes guts to admit you're vanilla and proud of it and not pretend you're wild and kinky just because everyone else seems to be. Never think someone isn't complex just because they don't see things the way you do. That definitely is arrogant and it will rob your of opportunites to get to know some great folks............luci



slaveluci -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 5:14:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Making allusions to the deficiency in others if the disagree or lack the knowledge, or interest in what you do, is obviously ridiculously arrogant and puzzling to me.

quote:

I know vanilla people who are blissfully happy and others not so much. I doubt trying to convince them that they should try BDSM would fall on deaf ears.

[sm=applause.gif]



Kaliko -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 8:07:51 PM)

I have had so much trouble responding to this thread. I've deleted what I wrote twice, now. One more time, I'll try. Yes, arrogant! But that's okay. You are only sharing what makes you happy and if that is how you know to be happy, you want others to know to, as well. I liken it to people who have found religion and want to share their good news, or mothers who want everyone around them to have babies so they can feel those same maternal feelings. You are happy, and you're happy that you're happy. I don't really see any issue with trying to tell people how this path could possibly help them to see rainbows and moonbeams, too. But just keep yourself grounded. To be blunt, no one really cares how blissfully happy you are except you, and even if you gushed about BDSM for an hour, if it's not important to them, then it's just not important to them. They have their own lives, with their own definitions of happiness, that have nothing to do with you and your BDSM.

I have a hard time with anyone trying to judge or assess anyone else's level of happiness. If I have these feelings of judgment about others (and we all have judged others at one time or another) I make it a point to try to exercise kindness not only in words but in thought as well, and genuinely try to put aside what I think would make them happy and celebrate with them what they think makes them happy. There's no harm in feeling a little arrogant now and then, as long as some good comes from it in your soul. I like forcing myself to get over myself like that.






sunshinemiss -> RE: Lacking (1/20/2011 12:04:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: twistedwillow

I guess it is lucky for me that the people who know me, know how blindingly, glaringly wrong your assumption about me is ...

You assume my attitude from a few words. Again, perfectly within your right to do so.
I have formed opinions of various people based on their words as well ... probably entirely incorrect.
I am not arrogant enough, unlike some, to say so.

Have to say, never been called arrogant before ... usually I am not 'arrogant enough'

But I guess I am merely human, maybe I am just a vanilla at heart, as apparently "weel twue kinksters' don't fuck up, and twue ones, never say the wrong thing, and twue ones never think uncharitable thoughts, and twue ones never wish they could share the beauty they see with others.

Well fuck, there goes music and art lovers, and often extreme sports people as well ...

arrogantly yours,



You're slamming ME? Wow. Ok. Well good luck then.



sunshinemiss -> RE: Lacking (1/20/2011 12:09:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

As Easton and Liszt put it in their wonderful book on bottoming,
"One useful metaphor is to think of BDSM as "graduate school sex," that you do after lots of study and practice. S/M is sex that engages the whole person: our bodies, our intellects, our emotions, our tool making abilities, our imaginations, our hearts and our souls."

With appreciation for what I have, rather than scorn for what others lack, I'm with the OP.


Just because somebody says it doesn't make it true.

Are we to take your agreement of these people to mean that vanilla people have sex that DOESN'T engage the body, intellect, emotion, tool making ability, imagination, heart and soul? And that vanilla sex is just ... what? High School Sex? College Sex? GED Sex?

I must now go clean up the grey matter from my brain exploding.



kalikshama -> RE: Lacking (1/20/2011 7:32:20 AM)

I recognize my experiences as anecdotes and do not claim they are statistically significant nor do I extrapolate them onto populations.



LadyPact -> RE: Lacking (1/20/2011 8:28:13 AM)

You know, I think I'd probably see this as when females feel that I'm missing oh, so much, from their sexual encounters with other women.  Which, hey, I'm glad they are having a good time and all, but it's not changing the fact that I'm straight and it's not something that I'm remotely interested in.  They can tell Me how lovely their experiences are and I'm happy for them.  However, it's not something that I want to engage in for Myself. 

I think people should view BDSM in the same way.  Vanilla people aren't 'missing' anything.  It's not what they want, so how could they possibly be missing out?  It's not a case of lacking.  It's a case of being wired differently.  Something I think each of us should respect in the other people in our world.



Missokyst -> RE: Lacking (1/20/2011 9:11:21 AM)

You know.. those nillas sure have been successful for decades.. how odd considering they are lacking.



sexyred1 -> RE: Lacking (1/20/2011 9:22:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

As Easton and Liszt put it in their wonderful book on bottoming,
"One useful metaphor is to think of BDSM as "graduate school sex," that you do after lots of study and practice. S/M is sex that engages the whole person: our bodies, our intellects, our emotions, our tool making abilities, our imaginations, our hearts and our souls."

With appreciation for what I have, rather than scorn for what others lack, I'm with the OP.


Just because somebody says it doesn't make it true.

Are we to take your agreement of these people to mean that vanilla people have sex that DOESN'T engage the body, intellect, emotion, tool making ability, imagination, heart and soul? And that vanilla sex is just ... what? High School Sex? College Sex? GED Sex?

I must now go clean up the grey matter from my brain exploding.


Ok sunny, now you have to quote yourself for quote of the day girl!

That is hilarious. Graduate school sex. I think some people here need to put their dunce caps on if they want to persist in raising themselves higher by putting others down.



FukinTroll -> RE: Lacking (1/20/2011 9:59:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twistedwillow

A couple of days ago I was discussing smoking crack with a friend, and we were discussing non-junkies and how they just don't 'get' it.

And I found myself pitying them for their lack of, growth? Not the word I am looking for, but hard to describe exactly what I mean. Kind of like, pitying them for being born deficient.
I realize this is a rather arrogant view, and one I wasn't aware of having until the other day during the conversation. But I was wondering how many others have a similar view?

I guess in a way I feel like I see a rainbow of colours before me and I want to share the beauty with others but they only see 2 or 3 different colours so don't understand the complexities and beauty they are missing.

Not really a question more a muse,
So do others have a similar view? Despite the fact that, yes, it is an arrogant view.



I made a few editorial changes that should end the debate and MAKE you all understand just how profound and enlightening this thread is.



windchymes -> RE: Lacking (1/20/2011 10:10:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: twistedwillow

I guess in a way I feel like I see a rainbow of colours before me and I want to share the beauty with others but they only see 2 or 3 different colours so don't understand the complexities and beauty they are missing.



How do you know the "vanillas" aren't seeing a rainbow, too?



mnottertail -> RE: Lacking (1/20/2011 10:13:53 AM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6j8EiWIVZs



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