Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798

Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 (Full Version)

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dcnovice -> Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 (1/20/2011 5:08:29 PM)
Interesting article from that bleeding heart publication, Forbes. quote: In July of 1798, Congress passed – and President John Adams signed - “An Act for the Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen.” The law authorized the creation of a government operated marine hospital service and mandated that privately employed sailors be required to purchase health care insurance. Keep in mind that the 5th Congress did not really need to struggle over the intentions of the drafters of the Constitutions in creating this Act as many of its members were the drafters of the Constitution. And when the Bill came to the desk of President John Adams for signature, I think it’s safe to assume that the man in that chair had a pretty good grasp on what the framers had in mind. ETA quote from the article.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 (1/20/2011 5:31:10 PM)
"Each of us has the option to turn down employment that would require us to purchase private health insurance under the health care reform law." Wrong. If you dont have insurance through an employer you are forced to buy it individually. That is the difference between AbomiCare care and the Maritime law.

pahunkboy -> RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 (1/20/2011 5:34:23 PM)
So I guess it did not work out then?

dcnovice -> RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 (1/20/2011 5:36:40 PM)
Well, technically one has the right the persist in job-hunting until one finds a position that provides insurance.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 (1/20/2011 5:43:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice Well, technically one has the right the persist in job-hunting until one finds a position that provides insurance. Except the inevitable and intended result of AbomiCare as fashioned is that there will be no more employer provided insurance and it will be all individual mandate. That aside, I was pointing out the error in the author's equating the two laws. While finding non-maritime employment may have been problematic he has done nothing to show that the maritime law had anything tantamount to the (arguably) unconstitutional individual mandate regardless of industry.

dcnovice -> RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 (1/20/2011 5:53:14 PM)
quote: Except the inevitable and intended result of AbomiCare as fashioned is that there will be no more employer provided insurance and it will be all individual mandate. How do you see that working? What do you see as Obama's motivation for wanting to end employer-provided care? quote: That aside, I was pointing out the error in the author's equating the two laws. While finding non-maritime employment may have been problematic he has done nothing to show that the maritime law had anything tantamount to the (arguably) unconstitutional individual mandate regardless of industry. Granted, the nation-wide mandate is bigger than the maritime one. But they're both instances in which the government is requiring individuals to buy insurance. That makes me doubt the assertions of some folks that the framers would inevitably impose healthcare reform.

pahunkboy -> RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 (1/20/2011 6:02:35 PM)
The soc medicine did not work- all those people are now dead!

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 (1/20/2011 6:11:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Except the inevitable and intended result of AbomiCare as fashioned is that there will be no more employer provided insurance and it will be all individual mandate. How do you see that working? What do you see as Obama's motivation for wanting to end employer-provided care? He has always said his ultimate goal is single payer, and his motivation is his inherent socialism. quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: That aside, I was pointing out the error in the author's equating the two laws. While finding non-maritime employment may have been problematic he has done nothing to show that the maritime law had anything tantamount to the (arguably) unconstitutional individual mandate regardless of industry. Granted, the nation-wide mandate is bigger than the maritime one. But they're both instances in which the government is requiring individuals to buy insurance. That makes me doubt the assertions of some folks that the framers would inevitably impose healthcare reform. No, they arent both instances where individuals are required to buy insurance. Under the maritime law you can avoid it (albeit at what may be great inconvenience), under the current law you cant, period. The nature of the maritime industry and its regulation at the time may also be very different than other industries, with the importance of trade in the survival of the country and no navy to speak of to protect the private industry, resulting in a quasi-military status. (conjecture on my part. Im not interested enough in this flawed editorial to pursue it any further).

pahunkboy -> RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 (1/20/2011 6:14:31 PM)
Vermont moves on single-payer

dcnovice -> RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 (1/20/2011 6:26:26 PM)
quote: He has always said his ultimate goal is single payer, and his motivation is his inherent socialism. Requiring people to buy individual policies seems 180 degrees from single payer. quote: No, they arent both instances where individuals are required to buy insurance. Under the maritime law you can avoid it (albeit at what may be great inconvenience), under the current law you cant, period. Under the current law, you can avoid buying insurance, albeit at great inconvenience, by finding a job that provides it. That strikes me as an important parallel to the measure that John Adams signed. quote: The nature of the maritime industry and its regulation at the time may also be very different than other industries, with the importance of trade in the survival of the country and no navy to speak of to protect the private industry, resulting in a quasi-military status. (conjecture on my part.. Intriguing possibility. quote: Im not interested enough in this flawed editorial to pursue it any further) It is an editorial, and no analogy is perfect. Still, I think his main point--that we err when we assume that the Founding Fathers would necessarily or automatically look askance at the current law--is interesting and holds water. ETA: Thanks for pursuing this as far as you did. You gave me some good food for thought.

DomKen -> RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 (1/21/2011 2:50:23 AM)
Yeah the HCR law is designed to do away with employer provided health insurance. That's why a small business tax credit that pays up to 35% of health insuarnce premiums is part of the law. http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/05/17/tax-credits-are-first-step-health-insurance-reform-small-businesses Wait a minute....

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