RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (Full Version)

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VioletGray -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 12:03:13 PM)

Is Cenk Uygur really getting his own show on MSNBC? [sm=whoa.gif] If so, the republicans are going to WISH they had Keith Olbermann back. Especially since Keith never debated anyone on his show, and Cenk will take on anybody, anytime.



DomKen -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 12:12:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray

Is Cenk Uygur really getting his own show on MSNBC? [sm=whoa.gif] If so, the republicans are going to WISH they had Keith Olbermann back. Especially since Keith never debated anyone on his show, and Cenk will take on anybody, anytime.

It's going to be in the Ed Show's old time slot. Ed is now going to be after Rachel.

I figure it will be only a few days till one of our delightful cons posts a whine about Cenk making some conservative looking stupid.



popeye1250 -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 1:32:43 PM)

His 5 listeners must be crushed.



VioletGray -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 2:46:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

His 5 listeners must be crushed.

Um, his The Young Turks channel gets visited 250,000+ times a day, just on Youtube, not counting people who just visit his site.
also, when he goes on MSNBC, the ratings surge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S10xwBnoK3M




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 3:02:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray

Is Cenk Uygur really getting his own show on MSNBC? [sm=whoa.gif] If so, the republicans are going to WISH they had Keith Olbermann back. Especially since Keith never debated anyone on his show, and Cenk will take on anybody, anytime.


At least that might be interesting. Olblowhard couldnt debate a 6 year old.



TheHeretic -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 3:08:38 PM)

I don't think I've ever heard of him. Anybody got a good link to something good?



VioletGray -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 3:12:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I don't think I've ever heard of him. Anybody got a good link to something good?


this is a debate between him and Lee Doren, who is a sharp conservative debater who if the Republicans had any brains they would use a lot more often that they do..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dKdyjRiUhk

It's interesting. He gets heat from the Right for being too far left, and he gets heat from the left because he calls them on their bullshit way more than any other left-leaning pundit.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 3:30:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I don't think I've ever heard of him. Anybody got a good link to something good?


this is a debate between him and Lee Doren, who is a sharp conservative debater who if the Republicans had any brains they would use a lot more often that they do..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dKdyjRiUhk


Cenk lost the debate it at abut 8 minutes when he made the asinine claim that the "public option" doesnt have to make 25-30% profits "like the insurance companies", and later with the same claim plus that the public option wouldnt have advertising costs. there is no difference between "advertising costs" (which are extremely low for health insurance to begin with) and costs of making the public aware of the coverages in the public option.

Cenks whole argument relies on a false premise...that there was a real difference between the "universal health care" portion and the "public option" as it was proposed at the time.



VioletGray -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 3:38:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I don't think I've ever heard of him. Anybody got a good link to something good?


this is a debate between him and Lee Doren, who is a sharp conservative debater who if the Republicans had any brains they would use a lot more often that they do..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dKdyjRiUhk


Cenk lost the debate it at abut 8 minutes when he made the asinine claim that the "public option" doesnt have to make 25-30% profits "like the insurance companies", and later with the same claim plus that the public option wouldnt have advertising costs. there is no difference between "advertising costs" (which are extremely low for health insurance to begin with) and costs of making the public aware of the coverages in the public option.

Cenks whole argument relies on a false premise...that there was a real difference between the "universal health care" portion and the "public option" as it was proposed at the time.



I don't know about that Willbe, I think he was just giving an example. Also, I don't think that as far as advertising goes the government would need to advertise as much, as everyone knows who the government is, whereas if you are a private insurance company it is your responsibility to get your name out there with all the others.

As for your second point, I really didn't pay close enough attention when it was going on to confirm or deny what you say, but I enjoyed the debate nonetheless. They have a round 2, but look it up at your own peril, because the moderator will make you want to throw things at your monitor.



jlf1961 -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 4:31:43 PM)

Olberfurher, if you want to get technical, should be spelled Olberfuhrer, which in and of itself, strikes me as odd, because you are trying to make the point that Keith Olbermann was a right winger.

The idiots of the right seem to have forgotten that the NAZI party was a fascist organization, NOT a socialist one.

IF it had been socialist based, there would never have been an attack against the Soviet Union, a clearly socialist government.

quote:

The Nazis claimed that Jews were the greatest threat to the Aryan race and the German nation. They considered Jews a parasitic race that attached itself to various ideologies and movements to secure its self-preservation, such as: the Enlightenment, liberalism, democracy, parliamentary politics, capitalism, industrialization, Marxism and trade unionism.
source

Please notice the italics, as it emphases what the NAZI party was against.

Socialism supports the ideas that the Nazi party was against. Do not let the name of the party fool you.

quote:

Nazism presented itself as politically syncretic, incorporating policies, tactics and philosophies from right- and left-wing ideologies; in practice, Nazism was a far right form of politics.
source

For further information on this, you may decide to read the book, Germans into Nazis by Peter Fritzsche, which is available at most libraries.


Now considering that Keith Olbermann is clearly a liberal, and thus would support just about anything the Nazis would not, makes the right look clearly STUPID when they portray the left as some sort of new Nazi movement. Even the American Nazi movement does not support the left.

I apologize for the derail, but I am having a bit of fun pointing out to the right wingers on this board just how uneducated about facts they are.



flcouple2009 -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 4:39:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Cenk lost the debate it at abut 8 minutes when he made the asinine claim that the "public option" doesnt have to make 25-30% profits "like the insurance companies", and later with the same claim plus that the public option wouldnt have advertising costs. there is no difference between "advertising costs" (which are extremely low for health insurance to begin with) and costs of making the public aware of the coverages in the public option.

Cenks whole argument relies on a false premise...that there was a real difference between the "universal health care" portion and the "public option" as it was proposed at the time.



Welcome to Fantasy Island

You never cease to be good for a laugh,  health care companies don't do any advertising.

Of course not, I only have to watch what I choose on the net to avoid their commercials.




DomKen -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 5:15:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Cenk lost the debate it at abut 8 minutes when he made the asinine claim that the "public option" doesnt have to make 25-30% profits "like the insurance companies", and later with the same claim plus that the public option wouldnt have advertising costs. there is no difference between "advertising costs" (which are extremely low for health insurance to begin with) and costs of making the public aware of the coverages in the public option.

Cenks whole argument relies on a false premise...that there was a real difference between the "universal health care" portion and the "public option" as it was proposed at the time.

Both his points are true. The public option would be non profit and there would be no need to spend money advertising to attract customers.



jlf1961 -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 5:16:41 PM)

Please do not confuse the right wingers with facts, it causes them further brain damage.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 5:32:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray


I don't know about that Willbe, I think he was just giving an example. Also, I don't think that as far as advertising goes the government would need to advertise as much, as everyone knows who the government is, whereas if you are a private insurance company it is your responsibility to get your name out there with all the others.



I agree it was a good debate, at least tone wise, but he had to fall back on false statements to justify his position.

It wasnt just an example, he said it twice, and he cited it as one of the reasons that the public option would be cheaper (that and advertising).

There is almost no advertising done for health insurance, primarily because the market is dominated by employer provided coverage. You may see a billboard or two in CA for Kaiser, and a print ad now and then from the Blues. Provider advertising (mainly pharma but also hospitals, cancer centers etc. do most of the health care advertising and there cant be any claims for cost savings there, because there supposedly will be no impact on your choice and availability of drugs and providers.

He also fell back on the false claim of 1.5 billion in savings, which includes projected savings from reductions in medicare doctor fees, which everybody even knew at the time was a lie and is reversed annualy by "doc fix" bills. Add that back to the original CBO numbers and even then it cost money. Estimates of cost have gotten worse since then.

At least there may be something on MSNBC worth watching, because KO and RM certainly werent.



MrRodgers -> RE: Keith Olberman quit MSNBC show! (1/22/2011 6:12:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

If he was fired rather than quitting it seems to have been a personality issue since the reshuffling of shows has resulted in Cenk Ungyar of the Young Turks getting a show.

And he is going to piss off the conservatives even more.

Conservatives ?
I see few conservatives anywhere, anymore. Washington, the blogs or on TV. I see demagogues and liars, I see Fox firing people for not using the exact words...they are TOLD to use.

Fiscally, Washington is full of Keynesians and has been...for 30 years. Militarily...I see recklessness...domestically I see huge build-up and costs according to your constituency. Socially, I see prejudice, rancor, pandering and vitriol. No...I see few if any real conservatives.

I see what I written of...Goebbels would be drooling at their success and further potential.

Personally, I do not watch or listen to any political commentary, the only exception being the roundtable on ABC Sunday's This Week. What I get is links online to see what the whole hubbub is all about.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Keith Olberman quit MSNBC show! (1/22/2011 7:53:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I see Fox firing people for not using the exact words...they are TOLD to use.



Who was that?

And I guess you never heard of Juan Williams.



RapierFugue -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 8:47:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
There is almost no advertising done for health insurance


This is the Politics and Religion forum, not humour.



tazzygirl -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 11:06:27 PM)

quote:

There is almost no advertising done for health insurance, primarily because the market is dominated by employer provided coverage. You may see a billboard or two in CA for Kaiser, and a print ad now and then from the Blues. Provider advertising (mainly pharma but also hospitals, cancer centers etc. do most of the health care advertising and there cant be any claims for cost savings there, because there supposedly will be no impact on your choice and availability of drugs and providers.


For the third year in a row, Miami-based Leon Medical Centers Health Plans made a huge marketing push during the Super Bowl—rubbing elbows with the nation's advertising biggies. For viewers, the seamless transition between commercials made it seem that Leon was a nationwide marketer, but in fact it was purchasing local spots at much less than the $3 million for 30 seconds that the big boys were paying. ''It gets that buzz going,'' said Leon spokesman Rebecca Larger. ''It gets the phones ringing. It does not necessarily reach our demographic''—senior citizens on Medicare—''but it definitely targets the children, the sandwich generation, the decision-makers for the seniors'' about which Medicare health-maintenance organization is right for their parents.

http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/content.cfm?content_id=227579&topic=WS_HLM2_MAR##

Advertising is the means through which products of a company can be marketed. To give knowledge of a product, advertising is the only means. Health insurance advertisement is a best way to propagate the idea of Insurance among general public. The main aim of an insurance company is to advertise health insurance effectively by all possible means. Now-a-days, most advanced methods are being used to advertise for health insurance.

http://www.insuranceadvertisingonline.com/health-insurance-advertising.html

The medical loss ratio can tell investors if a health insurance company is going to be profitable. To the consumer purchasing the health insurance the lower the number the less benefit for medical expenses paid. When the health insurance company is taking premiums for administrative costs, which include advertising, and profits is is just money spent by the consumer. The Medical loss ratio for UnitedHealth in 2008 was reported to investors as being 82 percent (82 cent out of every dollar toward medical care). In 2009 United Health for Individual plans had a 70.5 percent medical loss ratio. Wellpoint in 2009 for Individual plans was a 74.9 percent medical loss ratio. Humana had the worst medical loss ratio for 2009 Individual plans with only 68.1 percent. The large group insurance plans had the best medical loss ratio for the consumer, except for Cigna in 2008 who had a medical loss ratio of 37.2 percent for the large group insurance plan. Cigna improved in 2009 with a 85.2 percent medical loss ratio for the large group insurance plan.

http://www.digitalnewsreport.com/2010/04/15-health-insurance-companies-reclassified-administrative-operations-as-medical-care/4125

you arent fooling anyone.



popeye1250 -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/22/2011 11:17:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

His 5 listeners must be crushed.

Um, his The Young Turks channel gets visited 250,000+ times a day, just on Youtube, not counting people who just visit his site.
also, when he goes on MSNBC, the ratings surge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S10xwBnoK3M




His ratings surge when he goes on MSNBC? That must be why they fired him! lol



VioletGray -> RE: Olberfurher ousted from MSNBC (1/23/2011 12:08:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

His 5 listeners must be crushed.

Um, his The Young Turks channel gets visited 250,000+ times a day, just on Youtube, not counting people who just visit his site.
also, when he goes on MSNBC, the ratings surge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S10xwBnoK3M




His ratings surge when he goes on MSNBC? That must be why they fired him! lol


I was talking about Cenk Uygur, not Keith Olbermann.



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