You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (Full Version)

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Lockit -> You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/25/2011 11:22:26 AM)

Having had relationships with a number of different types of people, with different dynamics, I would say that my experience has either made me jaded, cautious, experienced or intolerant in the sense of not being willing to go backwards and back into something I know doesn’t work for me. Whatever you might call it, it is what it is and I am what I am. I tend to believe that it isn’t being jaded or some other derogatory word, to know what works and what doesn’t… for you… and not wish to unwisely go into a relationship with someone you know didn’t work for you before. Yes, people and situations are different, yet, some things are just too stupid to want to handle again because it can be chaotic.

I found this wonderful guy. Someone that doesn’t run because of my illness, my son, my income level or lack thereof and how I live simply and yet happily. He is used to making big money and I was there at one time. He is used to having the best of many things, just as I was and yet… life happened, injuries took place and health created some challenges. Having worked with many in crisis for many things, but the last time frame was because of health and inability to create the income they once had, I found ways that made a new way of living something one could live with. Men seemed to have a harder time of accepting this new way and not being able bodied enough to go out and make those extra bucks, and learning to live a more simple life.

So I have this wonderful guy and all is well. I finally tell people I have meet someone in person and wonderful because I am thinking he is… and then… omg… then I learn something that absolutely had me rocking back and forth emotionally… how could anyone be that stupid? lol I can’t put it out of my mind because I know that others that made financial mistakes or poor choices for whatever reasons and were people that got defensive about their action, no matter how you presented your opposition to it, which for me is generally kindly and with understanding until they get defensive. When someone is defensive, it doesn’t matter if they are submissive or not, you are going to have challenges with any submission that might normally be there. Then I eat them with facts, wisdom and no way are you going to try to involve me in that kind of stupidity and stand by it as if it were the wisest thing that could have been done. I won’t call a huge financial misjudgment a mistake a lot of the time because of circumstances which prove it was foolish. The mistake or foolishness I might be able to handle. The defensiveness… no way can I tolerate.

So I finally get to the financial aspects of being involved with someone. I have a need to know before we go any further. I find out that without research and even googling to find out what the real deal was… the man and his mother invest over $40,000. in a housing scam that is well known and in his seeking to undo damage from an accident that disables him, he is trying to recoup and gets taken in by a major scam… hands over their money and now must make the system work when it isn’t working and wants me to work with him to save his ass. I can’t save your ass if you give the thing away!

I know myself well enough and have been there and this is one reason I live with a… I have final say in all things… I know I will eventually eat him as he slowly realizes he cannot recoup and can’t save his ass and he fucked up and then gets defensive. (I know him well enough to believe he will get defensive just as I have seen others do so.) I could live with the mistakes and misjudgment, but… I cannot live with the process of finding out how badly you screwed yourself for not doing your homework, dreaming big and handing over money and a large amount of it that you just lost. Nor can I handle the results of what happened because while I can accept a different lifestyle and be happy… he thinks it is better to live in a box under a bridge than to lower himself to living in a mobile home where all those druggies and domestically problematic people live.

So, I know where this relationship starts to end. lol But what do you all think? Can you go back into a similar situation with someone, handle the chaotic process someone must go through to get to the other side of learning to live a new life? Could you do what I know I must not and cannot do? Do you think I am being jaded and unreasonable? I say this because this isn’t the first time I had to decline a relationship with someone defensive about their choices and fear of their future choices. He hasn’t said that I am unreasonable… I was just curious because I know how I think but many think differently than I do and I can be a hard ass. I wondered what others might do with a great guy in every other way… and yet… stupid in a way that could effect me/you big time. Would you have patience where I do not?

What determines for you… whether it is jaded or wise?




sblady -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/25/2011 4:06:33 PM)

I think you're being wise, especially if the person is defensive. However, I've been accused of being jaded so you'd probably want to take my information with a grain of salt. Seriously. [;)]

I deal with people (consumers, relatives, friends) who come to me for assistance in financial and a few legal matters. However, they rarely want to tell the whole story as they know they made bad decisions. Now, I won't berate them for making these decisions, but if they withhold information, I certainly can't help. So, in the end (some) walk away frustrated or with the impression that I think I'm lording something over them, which certainly isn't the case. A great deal of my experience comes from the mistakes I made.

Sadly, he learned an expensive and unaffordable lesson and at this point, he can only try to recoup some of his losses, if possible. If you'd like, offer to listen and provide advice when he recovers from the blow of this financial mess.

I hope my post made sense and wasn't totally off. [:)]



sexyred1 -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/25/2011 4:11:23 PM)

I am sorry Lockit, can you clarify? You met a great guy who is great in all ways but he made a catastrophic mistake that cost him financially?

Are you asking if you should stay with him or if we think you would be right to dump him because his stupidity was way too much for you to respect him?

Money is a very big issue with couples, so I understand you questioning it. But how is he in all other ways and as long as you protect your own finances, is it a dealbreaker?



PeonForHer -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/25/2011 4:16:43 PM)

Lockit,

There's something here that you're not saying.  Granted, your man's been an A1 berk. However, I know you well enough to know that if you really did think this was a 'wonderful guy', then you'd forgive all the balls ups that he'd made, and then some.  What's going on?



kalikshama -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/25/2011 4:18:19 PM)

Financial responsibility is something I consider as well. I'd want to know if this was a one time thing or if he has a track record of making bad financial decisions.



Lockit -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/25/2011 4:54:21 PM)

I've had a brainy day... meaning I've been running numbers, trying to figure out how to manage a couple expensive things and I am brain tired. I will try to formulate some thoughts or a better explanation tomorrow. Right now I need light hearted, low level thinking. lol

Thanks everyone!



mummyman321 -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/25/2011 4:57:06 PM)

Lockit,
I am very strict when it comes to finances. I will never do anything that will endanger my income, life savings, retirement, etc. That may change the day I decide to make a life commitment but not before.

What is not clear if he is actually asking you for money or if it is just emotional support? Either way, the bottom line is if you feel uncomfortable, then saying no is a wise decision. To me the money situation is an easy choice to make as I said above. If its an emotional decision of not wanting to go through that roller coaster, that is not being jaded. As you said, you have lived through that once yourself. I can totally understand not wanting to re-live that with someone else. I have been there and its not a place I will ever go back to. Way to emotionally draining.



came4U -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/25/2011 8:45:05 PM)

quote:

Financial responsibility is something I consider as well. I'd want to know if this was a one time thing or if he has a track record of making bad financial decisions.


I agree.

I also agree with mummyman.  It is too risky to be with someone that irresponsible at my age.  Is one of the main reasons I don't want to live with someone again, and ensure I keep my own finances separate from any relationship I might have in the future.  If someone makes mistakes with their own money, their issue, but to combine incomes after that point would only put myself in a position of possible weakness--and not in a good way.



popeye1250 -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/25/2011 9:52:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

quote:

Financial responsibility is something I consider as well. I'd want to know if this was a one time thing or if he has a track record of making bad financial decisions.


I agree.

I also agree with mummyman.  It is too risky to be with someone that irresponsible at my age.  Is one of the main reasons I don't want to live with someone again, and ensure I keep my own finances separate from any relationship I might have in the future.  If someone makes mistakes with their own money, their issue, but to combine incomes after that point would only put myself in a position of possible weakness--and not in a good way.




Came4u, that's wise, you'll *never* go wrong with seperate finances.
And all of those scams always tell people that they'll get rich, if they tell you you're going to get rich you sure as hell won't!
If people want to make money they should study the stockmarkets and invest it there instead of being ripped off by scam men.
Start an account with Scottrade, Ameriatrade etc and cut out the middlemen like Bernie Madoff.



MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/25/2011 10:56:22 PM)

Was it stupidity or naivete?

Without trying to pry out much information, have you actually confronted him about the...um...let's call it an error in judgment.  You said ,

quote:

I can’t put it out of my mind because I know that others that made financial mistakes or poor choices for whatever reasons and were people that got defensive about their action, no matter how you presented your opposition to it, which for me is generally kindly and with understanding until they get defensive.


but it doesn't appear  from your statement that you've actually gone through the process of finding out whether or not he fits into that category.



came4U -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/25/2011 11:15:51 PM)

quote:

If people want to make money they should study the stockmarkets and invest it there instead of being ripped off by scam men.


I don't have a clue about the stockmarkets or investments (mathematics is a hard limit on my profile) but my ex is an investment analyst, economist lecturer and a part time guest article writer for the Financial Post.  I just know what he told me .....trust NO man to take care of you (except him) because in all likelihood you are better off tossing a dart into the wind. 

I am learning to take care of myself because of that advice.  Otherwise I'd be squirming up to any man with an interact card like the useless, twit money-dense dipshit I used to be.

Now that I have found my independence, it is good, yet made me a lil bitter.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/26/2011 12:23:28 AM)

I have him on ignore. That way all I see is a flood of thread titles. [sm=banana.gif]



Termyn8or -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/26/2011 8:09:37 AM)

The way I read this, it's not the amount, not the fact, but the attitude.

My take on it is the best thing to do is to deal the same with all know-it-alls. Pretty simple really - "If you know it all, you handle it, leave me out of it. Now if you wanna have some fun that's different. As far as this, get on with your bad self".

I know people who are fast, good friends. Some I would trust with my life, but not with a dollar. While I do get pissed when they try to give me financial advice because they have no idea what they're talking about, the relationship does not depend on my help, advice or support.

And I hate to say it, if I got screwed for a bunch of money, it might come up in casual conversation but it would not be an issue. I would've lived and learned, not cry on people's shoulders. As a know it all, I doubt I would even admit it. That makes me suspicious of this whole thing, but don't take that to the bank, different strokes for different folks. And if I got my Mother involved on a deal and she got screwed, it would be a moot point because I would probably shoot myself.

But I am not a know-it-all. I admit I got screwed for $1,500 years ago. Alot of people hate Judge Judy, not me. Not now. So what, I got screwed. If you have any ideas I'll listen, but I am not asking. What did loaning out $1,500 and not getting it back teach me ? Don't loan out money without some viable means of collecting it back. If I had gotten the money back, I might do it again. What taught me was consequenses.

So don't be the saviour, and if he flips you the bird for that, return the favor.

T^T



Lockit -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/26/2011 8:32:38 AM)

Okay, I’m going to attempt to put my thoughts together. No easy thing to do when pressed for time and in a morning fog! I don’t do mornings well. lol I did talk to him last night and while I didn’t resolve anything, I did express some of how I feel about things. I also saw more and may be getting my answers.

In the past and partly why I have my final say rule is because my first husband was into big money sales and service. Multimillion dollar contracts, hosting parties where some of those deals went down, high energy, big bad investors, cheats in every manner and the con of a lot of it. Money, big money is a turn off to me. Another thing that turns me off is those that are blindly following in the footsteps of someone else to get the goods, to live the high life and don’t have a clue. It’s risky business and you do have to take chances and if you win… all good I guess… but if you don’t… omg… you have seen the whiners and complainers, the disillusioned around here… you deny some cocks, wallets or gold diggers… and you have one sure fire pain in the ass! I don’t have much liking or tolerance for the rich and want to be famous or those that had dreams of being rich and famous who cannot be. I simply don’t like the life focus and don’t find a lot of worth in it. Making money is different, that I can do, but making money dreaming of someone else’s riches and wanting it… no.

If one is going to go out and start a business of any kind, they need to know their market, get educated, not by some guy taking your money to teach you how to do what he did… which isn’t all there is to the story, following the research and what I know about the guy. I feel if you invest any money, you should be able to answer enough of the simple questions I had… not repeat answers that a guy spouted off. That is how con men are born. You buy into the story without getting some facts… you are delusional in my mind. A dreamer or desperate.  I am a strong believer in doing your emotional homework as well as a financial homework and your time investment is also a concern.

When someone is high on something, is that the best time to talk to them? When someone is depressed is that the time you are going to get through to them? I don’t happen to think so. They can be obsessed with the high or the low and you will play second in importance to whatever is going on. They will rarely listen to you and in that, I see a disrespect or disregard for what I say, think and feel or any wisdom I have.

I said enough last night to know he is still on the high and has to believe because he did invest so very much and he wants me to work with him… I think he has it planned that we could work together… which means he doesn’t get me. No one plans my life but me. Yes, on one level he does get me and I would be an asset, but… I am no asset to a dreamer. In fact, I am the worst person to be sitting with sharing a cup of coffee and talking dreamer business. I told him that if I am wrong about this scam artist and the whole thing… which I hope I am… that I would eat crow and I will, but… in this economy, with the numbers I came up with on house sales and foreclosures with employment rates… I don’t think so. If you don’t have the big money to start with and play with and cover your ass if things go wrong, you aren’t going to be a power player in a bad economy. It simply isn’t the time to do it. If you do have money, it might be a great time to gather a lot of property and hold on to it, wait things out and then hit it big when the economy sorts itself out. But if you can't handle all that goes on, repairs, rebuilds, remodels and are dependent upon the good that will happen, in a poor economy, you are taking too many risks and can lose your ass. I do have to question the manner of doing business when you don't even consider these things and blindly believe it will all work out the way you want it to, without knowing the pitfalls or acknowledging them with a backup plan.

We were at an impasse without an argument, but I could feel the tension. His trying to sale me on it and my trying to say… no thanks… I will stay a poor broad. I am not devoting my time every single day to something I don’t believe in. I want no part of the highs and lows of big business or sales. I don’t want to get involved with the daily in’s and out’s that are already giving him headaches. I found that supporting someone in all this, the high is good times... the low... is hell. Been there, not going there again, unless it is someone that can listen and does.

And final in all things… he isn’t listening. He cannot hear anything but what the big rich guy said. As far as I am concerned… he doesn’t have to do it my way, it is his life… but if he can’t hear me, that is another matter altogether. No thank you, good luck to you… but I will stick with smaller scale, things I know have a market even in a bad economy… like my daughters idea. lol Small and steady is good enough for me... big in win or lose... no thanks. I am not a risk taker, not with the high stakes. Because what comes with all that... just isn't something I am emotionally willing to deal with.




LadyPact -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/26/2011 10:08:41 AM)

Lockit, I'm not really sure if this is good advice.  These are just My thoughts after reading your posts.

With My personality, I'd be out.  While I don't have all of the details or any idea if this person has already made investments or whatever, it's just not My kind of thing.  The things that sound like get rich quick really aren't My style.  Something small that I could put My blood, sweat, and tears into because I really had faith in it, that's something completely different in My book.  Yes, I'm kind of old fashioned in this area.  Any business venture that I'm going to be dedicated to has to be a labor of love for Me. 

We all take risks in life, but I'm not putting everything I have (and more) into that long shot that I hope is going to pay off.  Not if I don't believe in it and I'm a pretty hard sell.  I'm not willing to be the person to recoup the mistakes of those who have made the leap when the odds of success seem minimal. 



popeye1250 -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/26/2011 11:13:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

The way I read this, it's not the amount, not the fact, but the attitude.

My take on it is the best thing to do is to deal the same with all know-it-alls. Pretty simple really - "If you know it all, you handle it, leave me out of it. Now if you wanna have some fun that's different. As far as this, get on with your bad self".

I know people who are fast, good friends. Some I would trust with my life, but not with a dollar. While I do get pissed when they try to give me financial advice because they have no idea what they're talking about, the relationship does not depend on my help, advice or support.

And I hate to say it, if I got screwed for a bunch of money, it might come up in casual conversation but it would not be an issue. I would've lived and learned, not cry on people's shoulders. As a know it all, I doubt I would even admit it. That makes me suspicious of this whole thing, but don't take that to the bank, different strokes for different folks. And if I got my Mother involved on a deal and she got screwed, it would be a moot point because I would probably shoot myself.

But I am not a know-it-all. I admit I got screwed for $1,500 years ago. Alot of people hate Judge Judy, not me. Not now. So what, I got screwed. If you have any ideas I'll listen, but I am not asking. What did loaning out $1,500 and not getting it back teach me ? Don't loan out money without some viable means of collecting it back. If I had gotten the money back, I might do it again. What taught me was consequenses.

So don't be the saviour, and if he flips you the bird for that, return the favor.

T^T



Term, I learned that lesson many years ago too.
So now I have some fun with them!
If someone tries to borrow say $1,000 off me I'll say; "Ok, what do you have for collateral?" "If you want to borrow $1,000 I require collateral of ten times that amount ($10,000) so that when you try to screw me it's you who gets screwed when I seize your property."
"That's the deal, I'm going to be hoping that you can't pay and that I screw (you) instead."
"Also, we'll need to go to my lawyer's office and have everything in a contract and you pay the lawyer."
Funny, they don't want to borrow the money then it seems.
And I get in their faces too; "What am I, a fuckin' banker here?" "Do these jeans and sweater look like a fuckin' three piece suit to you?"
"Why do you want to borrow money from ME?"
If a bank won't loan them money because of bad credit or whatever then my rates are going to be absolutely *Exorbitant!*
"Trust me, you can't *afford* to borrow money from me!" "Do I look like a fuckin' BANKER to you? "Do I look like I went to Banker's school?
Term, always get COLLATERAL up front that's worth *ten times* what they want to borrow and *you* set the value on it not *them!*
Of course they'll try to pass off a piece of costume jewelry as being much more valuable than it is so you don't take their word for *anything!*
And it's funny, in the past when they've had "trouble" comming up with the money they try to make "payments." "I can give you $20 a week."
"And I can take a ball peen hammer and fracture your skull, did I give YOU $20 a week?" "That's not the deal, lump sum for lump sum plus the vig."
So, my little loan sharking deal hasn't had any,..."customers" yet.
"Popeye, can I borrow some money from you?" "Suuuuuure, but you're not going to like my terms I gaurantee it!!!" lol
And *NEVER* loan money to someone who's just come into your life "recently." The "just passing through" type or "a friend of a friend."
And it's funny when they all say the same thing like they're reading off a script; "I'm good for it! You can trust me! I won't try to screw you."
Lol, I have a cousin who was, "in the business" and if they tried to screw him he'd just burn their car. They buy another car he'd burn that one. They caught on quick.
Sure, I'll loan money as long as the deal is structured so that I can make a lot off of it!
If a bank won't loan someone money at 10% I will, but at 30% with collateral that's worth 10 times what they want to borrow.



ricken -> RE: You can’t fix stupid, so what do you do with it? (1/26/2011 11:22:05 AM)

Lockit, I hope I'm not out of line here, but to me it sounds like you have your mind made up already, and I agree with you.
What I am reading is that he got taken in by a get rich quick thing, and rather than admit a mistake he is throwing (or want's to) good money after bad. The mistake was made and in my mind I can't fault someone for a mistake, but we all need to learn and move on.
As LadyPact says " Something small that I could put My blood, sweat, and tears into because I really had faith in it, that's something completely different in My book.  Yes, I'm kind of old fashioned in this area.  Any business venture that I'm going to be dedicated to has to be a labor of love for Me. " is great advice.
As far as your remark about dreaming IMO, dreaming is a great tool for getting what you want out of life, but dreaming of pie-in-the-sky returns is a great way to fulfill others dreams or lining their pockets with your money.
As You say "....And final in all things… he isn’t listening. He cannot hear anything but what the big rich guy said. As far as I am concerned… he doesn’t have to do it my way, it is his life… but if he can’t hear me, that is another matter altogether. No thank you, good luck to you..."
And I agree and wish you well through this.



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