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Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 11:03:19 AM   
Sundowner


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Can anyone offer helpful advice?

A couple of times now I've had occasions where I've enjoyed fun in the bedroom with a girl (different girls each time you understand) who, though new to it all, professes keen interest in sub/dom play but each time the outcome has been that simple over-the-knee spanking has apparently been fun and enjoyable but then simple bondage and "gentle" introductory whipping have been completely without excitement for her.

An obvious response is that my bedroom technique sucks but this is in the context of my having also played on many occasions with a girl (different girls each time you understand), again newbies, who have been hugely excited by spanking and have been excited by and enjoyed the progression to bondage and whipping. So I'm less inclined to think I'm just a complete numptie. But it may be that I'm no good at the psychology of slow progression or it may be there's a mindset in some girls which sees spanking in a different light from other bdsm play.

So can anyone suggest a reason - does anyone have experience of a sort of vanilla submission level where bland spanking is seen as fun but anything beyond that is just boring? Or suggestions on how to make the progression?



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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 11:06:38 AM   
IrishMist


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Status: offline 		My guess is that they don't see anything past spanking as 'boring' but more of a case of too painful perhaps, or that they are just not interested in going further. Not everyone is wired for such things.

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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 11:08:07 AM   
DesFIP


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Status: offline 		Spanking involves no implements. Whips look scary. So does coils of rope or chain or cuffs. Try non frightening implements like just tying hands to bedpost with scarves. Use a scarf for a blindfold.

But really, a spanking is a great first step. To expect someone to go beyond that the first date is inappropriate. Just as it takes guys new to this months to feel comfortable hitting a female, it takes months and tons of conversation for a female to feel safe being hit.

And the appropriate place is not in the bedroom, it's before you get there.


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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 11:14:33 AM   
RCdc


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Status: offline 		Hello Mr SD

It could be they just aren't wired for bondage. Or it might be the impliments... scarves do nothing for me as an example, whereas Master has some velcro wraps that are fab (because of the scratching) and metal cuffs are just mindblowing.

As for the progression from spanking to whipping or a flogger, it might be all in the mind. Spanking is (PPOV) far more one on one... floggers are more detatched.... from the human. Whips even more so (at least for me).

It might be too much too fast as well? Maybe the time line needs to be extended.

xxxxx

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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 11:21:52 AM   
Sundowner


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Sensible comment on the "Whips look scary. So does coils of rope or chain or cuffs" and "floggers are more detatched.... from the human ... whips even more so" DesFIP and RCdc - thank you. I really hadn't thought much about that. Plenty of pre-play chatting and reassuring "gentle" use of stuff and confidence-building "you can stoop it at any time" sort of thing but I'd missed the fact that, whilst they're familiar friends for me, leather cuffs and whips can be scary to others. Duh.



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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 12:05:46 PM   
lally2


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Status: offline 		its about submission, pure and simple really or rather the lack of it.  -  spanking is something they know or have fantasised over, that whole overwhelmed, exposed bottom, vulnerable and within the normal remit of kink is easy to relax into with someone who knows what theyre doing and can take the entire 'ooh this is a bit kinky, im not sure i should...' responsibility away from the woman.  it is not about submission to you though, its about letting themselves submit to the fun of it and the sensations theyve probably been craving for ages.

bring on the whips and theyre WTF!!!

you cant expect a woman who isnt fully submissive or even at all submissive to take that leap from a bit of naughty fun into the territory of wierd kinky shit.  its a kink too far for them and since im guessing theyre not actually submissive to you theres no drive or desire to please you or at least have a go for you.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 2/3/2011 12:10:44 PM >

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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 12:31:39 PM   
Sundowner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
<
<
since im guessing theyre not actually submissive to you theres no drive or desire to please you or at least have a go for you.


Hah! Good point (as well as the others - ty).



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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 2:10:06 PM   
SourandSweet


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Status: offline 		As a non-masochist sub I'm a bit confused.

If they're bored by (gentle) whipping and bondage then it would seem they they aren't shocked as such, nor are they (as is oft the case with me!) fearful or even nervous.

Trying very hard to envisage myself as a slightly submissive but generally vanilla woman being spanked and then seeing whips etc for the first time, and I don't think 'boredom' would be the emotion of choice.

Maybe a bit more info?  Did any of them express how they were feeling and why?

:-)

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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 2:36:32 PM   
angelikaJ


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Status: offline 		I think too, it depends very much on the implement and how it is used.

Floggers come in some many different varieties.
As I understand it, the softer leathers like deer and elk, really don't cause much pain per se are feel very nice drawn across the skin.
The more strands, the more thud.
Suede is kind of an inbetween leather because it is not soft as the other 2.

Some people really can find themselves falling into varied sensation: maybe a bit of flogging followed by the caress of fingers or silk.
Feathers, paintbrushes and other such things can be used in sensation play.

I love the way my Master plays with silk.

If bondage is scary, then try tying just one wrist.



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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 3:46:36 PM   
Sundowner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SourandSweet

Trying very hard to envisage myself as a slightly submissive but generally vanilla woman being spanked and then seeing whips etc for the first time, and I don't think 'boredom' would be the emotion of choice.  That's why I'm confused :)

Maybe a bit more info?  Did any of them express how they were feeling and why?

:-)



Stage 1 - general chat along the lines of do you like sub/dom stuff?
Stage 2 - response of "Oh yes - I've not done it before but yippee I like that" sort of thing
Stage 3 - when we fool around in the bedroom later tonight wanna play sub/dom too?
Stage 4 - we'll take it gently - spanking and bondage and maybe a little whipping ******
     and no gags so you can say stop and if anything's not good just say stop
Stage 4 - over the knee spanking, very moderate, with excited response
Stage 5 - kneel while I put these nice cuffs on
Stage 6 - gentle use of innocuous flogger (in very relaxed thuddy mode)

With the ones who love it, all the above very happy and clear signs of excitement when the leather cuffs go on and when the flogger is used.

With the others, clear signs of excitement with spanking and apparent happy compliance with cuffs and floggers but no obvious excitement; play not therefore extended play and so a transition to vanilla fooling around and happy orgasms. Subsequent chat along the lines of how was it for you elicits "nothing really - it was ok but not specially exciting".

I simplify and paraphrase but hopefully you get the idea.

******  although the majority were delightfully (and subsequently rewardingly) happy with this I guess this may be not a good move. Better to be patient and leave it at spanking on night 1.


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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 4:55:16 PM   
DesFIP


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Status: offline 		Try a blindfold and have her focus on the sensations, not what it is you're using. To this day I freak out if I see him holding a crop. If I'm blindfolded and he uses it and then puts it back before taking the blindfold off, I have no problem. But I'd rather not know he's using it.

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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 5:17:32 PM   
SourandSweet


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Status: offline 		Hmm looking at what you've said I can only assumed that they weren't scared or any such because you'd communicated clearly with them what was going to happen/ happening.

Given that assumption all I can think of is that they just weren't 'into' it!

Either that or they were trying to act cool or being coy.

Win some, lose some I guess.

:-)

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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 5:42:07 PM   
petmonkey


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Status: offline 		Perhaps they haven't experienced, or don't, sexualize non-touching.  When you are spanking, you're using your hands to touch their bodies, but not with cuffs or a flogger.  Perhaps using implements that involve a little more hands-on, up close and in their personal space is needed.  i know, it sounds odd to say so--what isn't up-close and personal  about a flogging? *shrug*  But then, i'm not new to sexualizing non-touching sexual acts.

eta:  For instance, cuffs and a flogger might do nothing for them but gripping their wrists and giving them a tickle or pinch might send them to the moon.  Am i making sense?  i ask because i don't honestly know.


< Message edited by petmonkey -- 2/3/2011 5:44:59 PM >

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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 6:27:17 PM   
sexyred1


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Status: offline 		It sounds rather simple to me; the women only wanted to be spanked. End of story.

Also, when you first discussed this in stage 2 and you asked if they wanted to "try" sub/dom stuff, and they said Oh Yippee I like that, but I have never done that before....

Uh, how do they know they like something they never did before??

It sounds like a miscommunication issue to me.

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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/3/2011 8:58:11 PM   
LPslittleclip


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Status: offline 		a discussion of the issue with them in a non date/sex setting would be helpfull. find out what they like/dislike what you do and what they think on the subject. doing this out of the bedroom helps the feeling of pressure to be lessened and helps to avoid misunderstandings

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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/4/2011 1:08:07 AM   
Sundowner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: petmonkey

<
<
Am i making sense?  i ask because i don't honestly know.



Certainly making sense - and I've been at this for years and I still don't know so much stuff.

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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/4/2011 6:28:06 AM   
preytolife


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Status: offline 		*Whips*? I don't blame them. I hate whips. I love floggers though. Jeez, I probably would have been put off D/s indefinitely if my first Dom had started out with anything beyond spanking. Took me months to consider it and I was surprised I enjoyed it... It still doesn't excite me though. In fact I know very few people who get excited by impact play of any kind. I consider it to be a type of a release more than anything at all sexual for me; though it is an intensely intimate act.

Or you might just suck at whipping. Just sayin'.

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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/4/2011 8:30:49 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: preytolife

*Whips*? I don't blame them. I hate whips. I love floggers though. Jeez, I probably would have been put off D/s indefinitely if my first Dom had started out with anything beyond spanking. Took me months to consider it and I was surprised I enjoyed it... It still doesn't excite me though. In fact I know very few people who get excited by impact play of any kind. I consider it to be a type of a release more than anything at all sexual for me; though it is an intensely intimate act.


Now you know one!

SD - no suggestions except for pick less vanilla partners.



< Message edited by kalikshama -- 2/4/2011 8:32:09 AM >

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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/4/2011 10:54:27 AM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
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Status: offline 		Not everyone has the same kink and people often use words poorly.

Things I like to point out:

1. Submission is not about pain, it is about obedience. Lots of people are in to submission but not pain. Being Dominant is about giving orders, not pain.
2. Masochism is about pain, not submission. Being a Sadist is about giving pain, not orders.
3. Many people confuse these two things.
4. To make everything far more complicated, there is another difference between reality and fantasy. What you enjoy reading/thinking/talking about is not always what you enjoy in reality. This applies to many things, not just sex (Many arm chair warriors love to talk about war, but would hate actually being a soldier. In addition some real world soldiers fantasize about being home, but when they get home they wish they were back in the war)
5. To make it worse, many Dominants/Submissives like to fantasize about masochism/sadism and many masochsits/sadists like to fantasize about submission/dominance.

#5 is incredibly common. I love to dominant women and enjoy fantasising about being a sadist, but in reality don't enjoy hurting women.


I suggest you try communication a bit better with the people you are playing with. Be sure to find out not only what they THINK they enjoy, but what they have actual experience with and know they like to do.

Be sure to find out exactly what your partner wants before you date them.

P.S. Note, this may seriously cut down on the number of partners you have (it is a lot harder to find someone you really truly have something in common with), but should increase the quality of your dates.


< Message edited by StrongSpirit -- 2/4/2011 10:57:00 AM >

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RE: Beyond spanking - how? - 2/4/2011 5:47:38 PM   
sirssubk2008


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Status: offline 		I think StrongSpirit has hit on a huge point
"
quote:

4. To make everything far more complicated, there is another difference between reality and fantasy. What you enjoy reading/thinking/talking about is not always what you enjoy in reality. This applies to many things, not just sex (Many arm chair warriors love to talk about war, but would hate actually being a soldier. In addition some real world soldiers fantasize about being home, but when they get home they wish they were back in the war)


Fantasy and reality are completely different. When a person has never experienced something and they say "Oh yes I love that , though I have not done it." they usually mean that it is a fantasy of theirs, but not all fantasies are meant to be acted out.

I agree everyone above that has talked about communication outside the bedroom. Don't be afraid to get deep into the discussion because genaralizations leave too much open and room for miscommunication.

edited because I have yet to figure out all the features on here,

< Message edited by sirssubk2008 -- 2/4/2011 5:51:10 PM >

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