RE: Beyond spanking - how? (Full Version)

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AquaticSub -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/4/2011 9:24:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

So can anyone suggest a reason - does anyone have experience of a sort of vanilla submission level where bland spanking is seen as fun but anything beyond that is just boring? Or suggestions on how to make the progression?



Because it's different girls all with the same outcome, I would say that the odds are that it's the common factor - you.

Now, it may not be. But I'd say the odds are good that it is. So here is my simple and humble advice: Avoid newbies for awhile.

There is nothing, in any way, wrong with a newbie. But a newbie - through no fault of their own - doesn't know what they want or even if they really want it. While there is nothing wrong with that, it could do you some get to spend some time playing around with women who *do* know what they want. As much as I'm loathe to play into stereotypes, I have noticed that people who more into this than others will respond to things in subtly different ways - ways that I can't even fully type out. It's just things that I pick up, phrasings, the ways the eyes light up at particular ideas, body language.

Spend some time with women who *know* they want this and you may get better and picking out the newbies who genuinely want this too. And your technique just may improve in the process.



mbes -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/5/2011 12:20:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner


Stage 1 - general chat along the lines of do you like sub/dom stuff?
Stage 2 - response of "Oh yes - I've not done it before but yippee I like that" sort of thing
Stage 3 - when we fool around in the bedroom later tonight wanna play sub/dom too?
Stage 4 - we'll take it gently - spanking and bondage and maybe a little whipping ******
     and no gags so you can say stop and if anything's not good just say stop
Stage 4 - over the knee spanking, very moderate, with excited response
Stage 5 - kneel while I put these nice cuffs on
Stage 6 - gentle use of innocuous flogger (in very relaxed thuddy mode)

With the ones who love it, all the above very happy and clear signs of excitement when the leather cuffs go on and when the flogger is used.

With the others, clear signs of excitement with spanking and apparent happy compliance with cuffs and floggers but no obvious excitement; play not therefore extended play and so a transition to vanilla fooling around and happy orgasms. Subsequent chat along the lines of how was it for you elicits "nothing really - it was ok but not specially exciting".


Something I noticed that might be the difference is the switch from moderate to gentle. An innocuous flogger, gently used, is going to do less for me than a good spanking, and I LIKE floggers. A LOT. They may have felt you were a bit tentative, too, which might not flip their triggers.
Or it could just be that they like one sensation, but not another. Or other things already posted.
And while I'm here, I'd like to go on record as another who is excited by impact play. [:D]



Sundowner -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/5/2011 3:12:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
....

Spend some time with women who *know* they want this and you may get better and picking out the newbies who genuinely want this too. And your technique just may improve in the process.



<grins broadly at Aquatic>    How about we start a thread which says how difficult it is for dom blokes to meet sub ladies?

But sensible advice, thank you, and if ever an opportunity appears to play with girls who know then trust me, it is taken.





Sundowner -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/5/2011 3:18:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mbes

Something I noticed that might be the difference is the switch from moderate to gentle. An innocuous flogger, gently used, is going to do less for me than a good spanking, and I LIKE floggers. A LOT. They may have felt you were a bit tentative, too, which might not flip their triggers.



I've wondered about this mbes - a tricky one because a gentle scene ("Are you sitting bound comfortably? Can I adjust that blindfold for you? Would you like a little drink? That's not too harsh for you is it?" [I exaggerate, but you know what I mean]) can actually be a turn-off when a "rougher" approach can be much more exciting.

How to make that judgement call between rough and gentle though? Too rough and is trust lost? Too much pre-play discussion and a risk of that ghastly thing - scripted play.






kalikshama -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/5/2011 5:31:55 AM)

quote:

I've wondered about this mbes - a tricky one because a gentle scene ("Are you sitting bound comfortably? Can I adjust that blindfold for you? Would you like a little drink? That's not too harsh for you is it?" [I exaggerate, but you know what I mean]) can actually be a turn-off when a "rougher" approach can be much more exciting. How to make that judgement call between rough and gentle though? Too rough and is trust lost? Too much pre-play discussion and a risk of that ghastly thing - scripted play.


Maybe start paying more attention to non verbal-communication? Let her body tell you what you need to know. For example, check to see if her hands are turning blue. If she whines and wiggles her wrists, the bondage may be too tight. If her pussy is drenched, you're doing something right ;)

I've had very intense first times with a new partner scenes with minimal pre-play discussion, but I had the sense they were watching me very carefully and taking cues from my moans and screams.

If you must play with newbies, perhaps spanking is as far as it should go the first time. Tantalize her with how much more you have to offer and have her begging for more for the next time. Realize that not all will be wired for this.

Thanks for not starting a "It's so hard to find a sub" thread!




tazzygirl -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/5/2011 5:40:19 AM)

quote:

I've wondered about this mbes - a tricky one because a gentle scene ("Are you sitting bound comfortably? Can I adjust that blindfold for you? Would you like a little drink? That's not too harsh for you is it?" [I exaggerate, but you know what I mean]) can actually be a turn-off when a "rougher" approach can be much more exciting.

How to make that judgement call between rough and gentle though? Too rough and is trust lost? Too much pre-play discussion and a risk of that ghastly thing - scripted play.


For me, a better approach would be.. say.. if he noticed my hands were a little bit too tightly bound... "Bitch, you cant seem to take what I can dish out... yet... but you will... Oh how I promise you will, eventually!"... said in a menacing growl will sure to get the flood gates started while he losens my hands. Not only that, but piss me off enough to want to take more. No masochist wants to believe herself unable to "take".

Its not what you say, at times... its how you say it. The fact that he would have noticed my hands were too tightly bound will lead to a deepening trust aspect. Him saying it in that manner would lead to a deepening wetness factor.

[:D]



Sundowner -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/5/2011 8:19:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
Thanks for not starting a "It's so hard to find a sub" thread!



But we could if you liked?  [;)]

People could whine a lot and tell everyone how difficult it is and it'd be really exciting and different and interesting! Please say yes! 






kalikshama -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/5/2011 8:56:42 AM)

NO



sirsholly -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/5/2011 9:10:55 AM)

quote:

So I'm less inclined to think I'm just a complete numptie.
Can we put this to a vote? [image]http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/biggrin.gif[/image]

quote:


A couple of times now I've had occasions where I've enjoyed fun in the bedroom with a girl (different girls each time you understand) who, though new to it all, professes keen interest in sub/dom play but each time the outcome has been that simple over-the-knee spanking has apparently been fun and enjoyable but then simple bondage and "gentle" introductory whipping have been completely without excitement for her.


I do not think it is boredom on the part of the ladies, Sunny. I think it is your perception of what they are experiencing.

Lets look at what you are doing. You are playing with a submissive that, if not new to the BDSM arena, is new to you. You start out with basic domination, fed by her positive signals of submission. A spanking is erotic on both your part as well as hers, and you are naturally ready to move on to the next step...again fed by her positive response.

Neither of you has done anything wrong or misinterpreted each others signals. You are both on the same page and having a wonderful time. You move it up to the next level and bring out the restraints and a whip. Annnd here is where the problem begins.

Prior to this point, she has been in her submissive role without losing control She may very well have GIVEN you control, but she can get it back at any time, and this is a comfort to her.

She sees the whip and even though it may have been a key element of her submissive fantasies, the reality of it scares the hell out of her. To make matters worse, the restraints are applied and her control is no longer a given. The fact that she may have a safe word, or may trust that you will release her at her request is not the point. She does not have control at her fingertips. If she wants it back, she must ask for it.

Yet... she WANTED this. She HOPED for this. Her reaction is more confusing to her than it is to you. She does not want to be restrained, even though she loves it. The whip scares her, even though she finds the thought and sight of it to be highly erotic. She is fighting an internal battle and doing her very best to hide it from you.

Your perception of "boredom" is off base, in my opinion. Is she yawning and filing her nails? No, of course not. My guess is she is not physically reactive, laying rather still. Her face does not show signs of orgasmic ecstasy, but rather a blank expression. Of course her expression is blank...there are so many confusing emotions running through her mind that she does not know which one to express. In her mind, she wants to hide all her expressions because they are all so wrong while being so right. She does not want you to react to any one of her feelings because your reaction will be both what she wants and what she does not want.

You are not involving yourself with nut cases here, Sunny. Rather, this is very normal on the part of a new submissive. She wants to give in, both to your dominance and her fantasies, but she is simply not ready.

So what do you do? My first suggestion is to save the whip for another time. She is not ready for it, despite the fact that she might tell you otherwise. My second suggestion is to keep the cuffs hidden along with the whip. Employ the highly erotic use of mental bondage instead.

When you are done with the spanking and ready to move on to the next step, reach for a heavy flogger. Have her lie on her back on the bed while you sit next to her. Let her see and sense that you are relaxed...this is important. Tell her to reach for and hold on to the headboard, and to maintain her position. This is a mild form of mental bondage. You have in fact restrained her while allowing her the comfort of not losing control. Now...use the flogger to gently caress her body. Lightly tickle her breasts, stomach, thighs, etc. Then do it again, but this time with a bit of force and pressure. Give her commands in a firm voice. Have her turn over, again hold on to the headboard, and use the flogger in the same manner on her back and bottom... increasing the pressure to take it from erotic caressing to erotic pain.

Betcha boredom is the last thing you will see. [image]http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/yes.gif[/image]




Sundowner -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/5/2011 11:08:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

So I'm less inclined to think I'm just a complete numptie.
Can we put this to a vote? [image]http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/biggrin.gif[/image]   No we can't - I'm too modest to want to bathe in the warmth of confirmation.



I do not think it is boredom on the part of the ladies, Sunny. I think it is your perception of what they are experiencing.

<
<
<



Beautifully expounded holly and wise as a really wise person (as always). Your comments, and similar ones from others, are I'm sure the basic answer. I've just been too impatient, albeit happily lucky with the girls where things progressed as expected.

It's all so easy to see with hindsight and a little help from one's friends.

So thank you - and thanks for all the other useful posts. I shall mend my ways, take the advice on board and expect (with some confidence) to find the advice works well.

A pleasing thread which shows how helpful CM people can be.







graceadieu -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/6/2011 10:19:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

Stage 1 - general chat along the lines of do you like sub/dom stuff?
Stage 2 - response of "Oh yes - I've not done it before but yippee I like that" sort of thing
Stage 3 - when we fool around in the bedroom later tonight wanna play sub/dom too?
Stage 4 - we'll take it gently - spanking and bondage and maybe a little whipping ******
     and no gags so you can say stop and if anything's not good just say stop
Stage 4 - over the knee spanking, very moderate, with excited response
Stage 5 - kneel while I put these nice cuffs on
Stage 6 - gentle use of innocuous flogger (in very relaxed thuddy mode)


To be honest, I'd probably be bored too after #3 and 4. Being asked what I want during play and being told stuff like "if anything's not good just say stop" is a turn-off for me, because it makes me feel like I'm in control of the scene. (Of course, in reality there's actually a safeword and we'd know each others interests/limits/etc before starting.)



HisSexyBrat -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/7/2011 8:45:04 PM)

What did they say when you talked to them about it? It would be a great idea to be open and honest to see what they had to say.[:)]



AquaticSub -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/10/2011 4:50:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
....

Spend some time with women who *know* they want this and you may get better and picking out the newbies who genuinely want this too. And your technique just may improve in the process.



<grins broadly at Aquatic>    How about we start a thread which says how difficult it is for dom blokes to meet sub ladies?

But sensible advice, thank you, and if ever an opportunity appears to play with girls who know then trust me, it is taken.





We could but it would likely be met with the advice of get your ass out in the community. Travel to it if you need to. In my new location there are folks who drive hours to get to munches so, while I understand needing help finding the community, I don't tend to have a lot of sympathy for those who don't go to it. Particularly when all one needs is some practice and isn't looking for the love of their life.



MercTech -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/10/2011 12:55:04 PM)

Instead of progressing from OTK to harder impact play consider other options in the repetoir.

Bondage to a massage table and a progression from hot oils to wax play.

Hot cupping with a bit of fire play.

Stefan



GreedyTop -> RE: Beyond spanking - how? (2/10/2011 12:56:45 PM)

massage.. wax.. yum...

oops.. 'scuse the drool....



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