RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging

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Termyn8or -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/6/2011 9:41:46 PM)
Kinda surprised anyone knew about that. T^T

tazzygirl -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/6/2011 9:54:09 PM)
I believe the last time it was mentioned is when we had the thread about the Pope condoning the use of condoms. I know its been mentioned on a few other threads as well. But, as a topic of its own, I dont believe thats been started. Apparently, for others who may not know, the belief is that if a man has sex with an infant, they will be cured of the HIV virus. Its called the Virgin Cure. http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2002/april/virgin.htm http://www.avert.org/aids-picture.php?photo_id=2032 Its really hard to get an accurate picture of what is happening and how often...but apparently the myth is believed.

gungadin09 -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/6/2011 9:58:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or If you think we have to civilize the whole world you are just as wrong as the holy warriors. WE MUST IMPOSE OUR WAY ON THE INFIDELS, THE HERETICS, THE UNKNOWING. We must do this. It is our job to make the world just like our PERFECT FUCKING SOCIETY. Maybe we should civilize ourselves before we attampt to civilize others. And i think there's nothing wrong with the goal of civilizing both. If we all waited 'til we were perfect before prescribing behavior to others, there would be no laws, no morality at all. Look, believe it or not, i AM capable of understanding the other side of this argument. Living in a society where this sort of thing is just done, it must be difficult for some people to understand that it's wrong. Just as it was difficult for Southern slaveowners to understand, difficult for people in Nazi Germany to understand, difficult for the writers of the Old Testament to understand, difficult for the colonists exterminating the Indians to understand, difficult for the people who practise female circumcision to understand. Difficult for them to understand. But not impossible. Because we are human beings, not robots mindlessly following our programming. More than any other species we have the ability to reason and feel compassion for others, to imagine ourselves in their shoes. Which is why i don't accept the argument that it's their culture and they don't know any better. The fact that "everyone does it" isn't an excuse for doing wrong. Neither is the fact that our country does shitty things too. Some acts just violate the fundamental concept of humanity, and this is one of them. And i have no problem getting up in their business and telling them so. i'm just a bitch that way. pam

Termyn8or -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 12:18:57 AM)
"Living in a society where this sort of thing is just done, it must be difficult for some people to understand that it's wrong. Just as it was difficult for Southern slaveowners to understand, difficult for people in Nazi Germany to understand, difficult for the writers of the Old Testament to understand, difficult for the colonists exterminating the Indians to understand, difficult for the people who practise female circumcision to understand. Difficult for them to understand. But not impossible. " Difficult for some people ? To understand they're wrong ? How can one understand that they're wrong when they think they are right ? Let's spill some guts now. Me first. I watched a documentary a long time ago about a tribe in Africa that ate these bugs. These worms they ate had some kind of spikey things, and to eat them raw was fatal because it would tear up your digestive tract. However they found a way, to wrap them in the leaves of a certain plant, and roast them. Yes they had fire :-). I commend them for finding out how to survive, because really, they would probably prefered a hamburger. These are bugs ! Now how many people died trying to et those bugs before the cooking directions were perfected ? And who knows what happened next because they came to be considered a delicacy. Are we going to try to force our morality if, for example we make contact with extraterrestrials ? If those people you don't know 10,000 miles away are part of the human family, and the aliens are not, we are then bigoted to the fucking core. Or are we ? The firstborn Eskimo, or something, if a female - out on the ice to die. I see the reasons for that, but that doesn't make it any less brutal. Less savage. Less inhumane. Not at all. But that was most likely outside of my sphere of time. Is my sphere of geography bigger ? Yes, the here and now is the time to affect the future. Of that there is no doubt. But define the sphere. The sphere does not have to be a geographical location, or a nation. And the lines "they" draw on maps don't mean shit. Define your sphere. I have five live true friends. I also have family and some worthy acquaintences, on line and off. I consider myself lucky, that is my sphere. While I will, when able without killing myself, help a stranger, don't count on it. I'll help if I can, and it will be effective, but I won't throw money down into abandoned coal mines. (don't ask) There is so much more to say that I must end this now. Where does my sphere end ? T^T

gungadin09 -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 2:36:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Difficult for some people ? To understand they're wrong ? How can one understand that they're wrong when they think they are right ? One of two ways. The first way is that they correct themselves, because they begin to realise that they're wrong. It sounds like that's already happening in Bangladesh. This incident is illegal (if only just) and the guilty parties are being investigated. Hopefully, in the end, some kind of justice will be served. The second way is that the situation escalates into some kind of conflict, whether it involves armed force, or economic sanctions, or whatever. And then whoever wins gets to decide what's "right". Are we going to try to force our morality if, for example we make contact with extraterrestrials ? If those people you don't know 10,000 miles away are part of the human family, and the aliens are not, we are then bigoted to the fucking core. Or are we ? Well, i'll deal with the alien question when it comes up. Chances are if extraterrestrials do arrive, they'll be the ones to impose their morality on us. But, frankly, i have no problem imposing my moral code on some African tribe that cuts off a little girl's clitoris, or on Moslem fundamentalists who whip a girl to death for adultery (or, in this case, being the victim of rape). In my example, "imposing my morality" means nothing more than posting on the thread about it; saying that i think it's wrong. But i wouldn't have any problem saying it to the people involved if i ever met them. You're damn right i'd force my morality on them! The firstborn Eskimo, or something, if a female - out on the ice to die. I see the reasons for that, but that doesn't make it any less brutal. Less savage. Less inhumane. Not at all. But that was most likely outside of my sphere of time. Is my sphere of geography bigger ? Yes, the here and now is the time to affect the future. Of that there is no doubt. But define the sphere. i have no problem calling that wrong, either, even if it was accepted practice in its time. But You're right. The further back in time it happened, the less shocking it is. We listen to stories of Roman gladiators and Christians being fed to the lions we and feel much more emotional distance than we do when we hear this girl's story. That's because it's ancient history and a society far removed from us. i'm not sure exactly where that line should be drawn, but in the end it doesn't matter. Those eskimos may not be in my moral sphere. The ancient Romans may not be. But this girl and her oppressors certainly are. The sphere does not have to be a geographical location, or a nation. And the lines "they" draw on maps don't mean shit. Define your sphere. i cannot comprehensively define it, but i can say that this girl and the people who killed her are definitely in there. I have five live true friends. I also have family and some worthy acquaintences, on line and off. I consider myself lucky, that is my sphere. While I will, when able without killing myself, help a stranger, don't count on it. I'll help if I can, and it will be effective, but I won't throw money down into abandoned coal mines. (don't ask) There is so much more to say that I must end this now. Where does my sphere end ? i don't know where Yours ends. But mine includes more than my family and friends. pam

allthatjaz -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 7:05:29 AM)
Whilst I agree that the 14 year old was brutally and needlessly murdered, I also believe there is little we can do. Would we agree to Muslims coming into our country to let us know about their moral views regarding women? Would we be prepared to sit up and listen to them telling us about how promiscuously we dress? how casual male partners are wrong? how this lifestyle is a sin? how we can stop being such an HIV riddled nation if only we followed their guidelines? One of the reasons that women are treated so badly in so many of these countries is because they look towards what they consider as 'the corruption of western women' and it frightens them. 'Lock up your daughters' is a well versed middle eastern phrase and they don't consider this is some sort of imprisonment of anyone born female. They consider it protection from the west because they desperately don't want to become what western women have become. We of all people are the last people who can educate them that murdering young girls is wrong. Sharia means 'A path to the watering hole' It is far more than a path to criminal justice but about moral living, just as the Christians have moral codes. Sadly it has been adapted by certain countries or in the case of the Pakistani 14 year old, used illegally by a fraction of fanatical Muslims as Sharia law. The Saudis use Sharia law in a brutal fashion but we hear little about the goings on in that country which is cloaked in secrecy and protected by the west. If western governments were to concern themselves about the brutalities that go on behind Sharia law, then they would directly upset the Saudis because it clearly can't be alright for one country but not for another. The support for Sharia law is growing alarmingly fast and not fading with the generations. Its going to get worse before it gets better and I really don't have any answers. Young girls in Africa are circumcised because of tradition and educating about the health hazards is an on going programme in many African countries. Putting a girl to death under Sharia law is so hugely different that it can't possibly be compared. Oh and the western world does not send aid to Pakistan from the goodness of its heart. It is not charity that we give them, its debt. The western world shackle Pakistan in debt for good reason http://www.international-issues.org/wp/viewpoint/asia/pakistan-a-wealth-of-possibilities/

hlen5 -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 8:24:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 ETA: FAST REPLY (1st Question not directed at one person) quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly ................And of course i know the victims are often blamed, Angel...even with something as ridiculous as the attire a rape victim was wearing. It is a tactic used by defense attorneys all the time...................... and victims are blamed for where they walk, see the "scared tranny" thread. that is a whole different ballgame Heln. When it is a CD/trans or any other person who varies from the "norm", it is automatically their fault. Thanks for clearing that up, holly!![:)][;)]

Termyn8or -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 9:07:50 AM)
Maybe you have more "heart". You take on this bigger sphere. You can buy a girl. they are sold into sexual slavery, to this day. About a decade or so ago they busted a ring, their crime; selling video tapes. I heard it was about $15,000 for their epic release. It depicted a small child raped and killed. That kind of shit, you want to kill the customers. What happened to Rachael Corrie ? Her death was OK because she was 23 ? Even in this country, where we should be paying attention, have you any idea why the Murrah building was hit on April 19th ? It was an aniversary, do you know of what ? The list can go on for quite a bit. Man's inhumanity to Man is not only not new, it is flourishing nicely in this "idyllic" world. It is more logical to grasp that which is within one's reach. Not to be better, but to be better. We need to get better, not better than them, better than us. I've done a bit of self analysis, and I find that this attitude of mine, and some others, is a defense mechanism. We are not climbing that hill in fifth gear. The attitude, which is similar to "let God sort them out" is what keeps some people from stripping their gears. The concept of going out in a blaze of glory, well, I can dig it. But what is the target ? There are so many, and what's more, to resort to an act of desperation and "go postal" would do no good. If it was actually Moslems who fried the WTC, what did they accomplish ? Some say quite a bit, all in the government's interest. In the name of security and safety for they, who don't deserve it, at the expense of we, who don't get it. By not attacking our sacred landmarks it's clear that their target was the government/big money, not the people. If this is so, they did not accomplish anything. What did McVeigh accomplish ? He cared. I am not sure if he knew the Weavers personally, but he included them in his sphere, probably because of his discontent with the government. But his actions were totally counterproductive. So I'd like to pull a "I Spit On Your Grave" on the "people" who whipped that girl for "adultery". And that's if she didn't die ! If they were to survive somehow, they wouldn't have a problem with that nasty testosterone to say the least. But I am here and they are there. You want to know what I am concerned with ? My Mother going to the ATM at night. I wish I could talk her into carrying a gun. Her life is worth ten of these fucking punks who go around robbing the vulnerable, and I don't say that just because she is my Mother. I'll mail you a synopsis of her life if you like. It's a damn shame that people have to roll into a ball emotionally to retain sanity in this insane world. What does a problem solver do when faced with an insoluble problem ? Can we live by the tenet that if one is not part of the solution one is part of the problem ? Not these days. T^T

tazzygirl -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 9:24:52 AM)
T, I really have issues with this... What did McVeigh accomplish ? He cared. I am not sure if he knew the Weavers personally, but he included them in his sphere, probably because of his discontent with the government. But his actions were totally counterproductive. Taking the actions of the federal government out on civilians, 19 of whom were children... there was no caring in that act other than revenge.... and 15 minutes of infamy.

Termyn8or -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 9:26:45 AM)
"'Lock up your daughters' is a well versed middle eastern phrase " I didn't realize the old west was part of the middle east LOL. But it's a good point. The old ideas of chastity, celibacy and fidelity are long gone. Good riddance ? Teen pregnancies and STDs, these are good things ? As much as it may sound crazy, these fuckers do have a point. When marauders came, did the daughters protest being locked up ? Can anyone say for sure ? Looking at it objectively, I can see why they don't want what happened to us to happen to them. Their means of preventing it leaves much to be desired, and yes it is wrong. But to stand in judgement of their ways is to claim infallibility, are we ready to do that ? Cast the stone ? In this case I think so. This made the news because it is probably one of the more extreme examples. But what if it were different ? What if she were an adulterer ? Would our outrage be so intense ? I think so. That is because we believe our "morality" to be right. Well so do they. I think we would have as much luck convincing them to adopt our way, as as they would have convincing us to adopt their's. Join the team of problem solvers, what would you do ? I don't see an easy solution for this, or female circumcision, or white slavery or even drunk drivers for that matter. People must make the change, it cannot be forced upon them. That is fact. Forcing change just begets a bunch of people on whom you can't turn your back. That you can't trust. Sleep with one eye open. T^T

MercTech -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 9:34:41 AM)
As I suspected.. the U.S. press did its usual bit of getting things just enough wrong as to mislead. The girls was not convicted but was the victim of a fatwa, religious ruling, and not a trial. And, the man who had raped her had the same sentence. The fatwa was for having sex with a married man and the man for being unfaithful to his wife... check the links from the U.K. for more information. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/03/bangladesh-clerics-arrested-after-girl-whipped http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=172669 In other words, she was killed by religious fundamentalists. And the fundamentalists that called for the punishment are under arrest. Stefan

Termyn8or -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 9:45:59 AM)
"T, I really have issues with this... " You think I don't ? When someone does something like that, it is precisely what I meant by stripping one's gears. Personally I would have kidnapped Lon Horiuchi and tortured him to death, for about a month. That would've been in the service of justice, not what that asshole did. But he went too far, his mind was clouded to say the least. I have already described what I would have done. If you can't find it say so and I'll repeat it. My plan would've been much more effective, and while it may have taken more resources, would not have killed so many innocents. It would not have brought on the villification of all who protest the government. But what do you expect from someone who does not operate in a logical fashion ? And then the question - what caused him to do this ? He cared too damn much. His judgement was FUBARed by emotion, as well as that of his cohorts. There is also talk of an FBI collaberator, which has yet to be proven or disproved. But who cares ? He wouldn't have done it if he was thinking straight. And I don't mean basic morality here, I mean analysing the aftermath of the act. That said, who cares who egged him on ? Who cares why, the aftermath is the same. And who put a fucking day care center in such a vulnerable place ? (that question was raised by my Father). If you work in a machine shop you don't take the kids to work. If you work in a restaaurant you don't take the kids to work. He almost accused the agents who worked in the Murrah building of using children as human shields, so that if anyone did something like that public ire would be raised many fold. Who is to say he was wrong ? Maybe he was wrong. Maybe those agents couldn't trust an outside day care because they were so hated. Maybe their children needed all that "protection" because why - the people are so happy ? I try to see as many sides of an issue as possible. Try not to hate me. T^T

tazzygirl -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 9:53:26 AM)
quote: And who put a fucking day care center in such a vulnerable place ? (that question was raised by my Father). If you work in a machine shop you don't take the kids to work. If you work in a restaaurant you don't take the kids to work. He almost accused the agents who worked in the Murrah building of using children as human shields, so that if anyone did something like that public ire would be raised many fold. Who is to say he was wrong ? Many businesses had on site day cares at the time... it was the rage and kept people from calling off. http://www.ehow.com/facts_5984634_benefits-day_care-center-office-building_.html The above link outlines dome of the benefits of an office day care center. After that incident, parents no longer felt that comfortable. Wasnt there a rise of attempts afterwards as well on other buildings?

maybemaybenot -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 10:07:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech As I suspected.. the U.S. press did its usual bit of getting things just enough wrong as to mislead. The girls was not convicted but was the victim of a fatwa, religious ruling, and not a trial. And, the man who had raped her had the same sentence. The fatwa was for having sex with a married man and the man for being unfaithful to his wife... check the links from the U.K. for more information. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/03/bangladesh-clerics-arrested-after-girl-whipped http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=172669 In other words, she was killed by religious fundamentalists. And the fundamentalists that called for the punishment are under arrest. Stefan Did you read the OP's link ? Snips: Hena Begum was sentenced to receive 100 lashes by avillage council made up of elders and Muslim clerics in the district of Shariatpur, about 35 miles from the capital, Dhaka, the BBC said today. Bangladesh's high court has ordered district officials in Shariatpur to explain why they did not protect the girl, The Daily Star said.The court ruled eight months ago that Shariah punishment was illegal. And in Post# 40 I linked a more detailed article, from a US news source. Barelynangel posted that it was " religious " doing citing the end of the article. I'll admit I misread it at first, but after Barelynangel pointed it out, I saw it was not a judicial issue, but a religous issue. mbmbn

Termyn8or -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 10:22:24 AM)
"Many businesses had on site day cares at the time... it was the rage and kept people from calling off. " Were those businesses engaged in killing ? T^T

tazzygirl -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 11:00:39 AM)
Im sure some people would consider many engaged in the business of killing.... insurance companies being, one, law firms, hospitals... all depends on how the person looks at the business.

Marc2b -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 11:56:27 AM)
quote: I would gladly be the "angel of death" and send thm to Allah, or Budhead or whoever they go to. [Emphasis Mine] Whoa, Dude! Leave Budhead outta this. Budhead... the god of stoners... is a gentle, laid back god. He would never condone killing, in fact, he never even gets angry (unless you bogart the joint and even then he would just say: "whoa, Dude! Quit bogarting the joint"), and he provides Nachos from heaven when his people get the munchies.

Termyn8or -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 12:11:12 PM)
So those places would be good for daycare centers ? That's the point. Public perception. Why did the story of the dead fouteen year old girl make the news ? How many kids got killed run over by a train in that country ? How many died of desease or starvation ? Do we know ? No. Why don't we know ? Because the media of the world, the US especially knows how to pull heartstrings. They saw this as an issue that would capture peiople's attention. Me thinst they were correct. But how many others ? How many have been killed or worse all over the planet ? I will not lick the foot of the media, and pay attention to that which they attampt to direct me. I heard in some countries they actually broke their children's limbs, so they would be more effective beggars. The problem is not unique to the PTB and the media. It is the people themselves. You can change laws, you can get legislation enacted, you can push for the repeal of unjust laws. But none of this matters to those who do as they will. I am such a person, but my will does not include punishing victims, oppressing the humble and lowly, or taking unfair advantage. But what of others ? They have learned to play on the sensitive chords of human nature, of the good, wherever they are. While I type right now, I can almost be sure that someone is getting raped, robbed or killed. It is not news anymore. The fact that a fourteen year old died through no fault of her own is not newsworthy, unless it serves a purpose. The purpose in this case is most likely to promote an anti - Islamic attitude in westerners. And people are so fucking stoooooopid that they don't realize that anti - Islamic IS anti - Semitic. And they think America is only the US, disregarding the fact that Venezuelans, Mexicans, Canadians, Panamanians and a whole lot of other people can rightly call themselves Americans. This is a narrow view. You see a guy with his guts hanging out in the street and think OMG, this guy is dying. But did anyone tell you that he just ran into the family of a girl he raped, or killed ? Did anyone mention that perhaps he was the other hijacker they never found ? Did they mention that it wasn't a family, but a bunch of people who went through school without lunches because he was the bully who took their lunch money FOR YEARS ? This world has about six billion people on it. Is this the only atrocity that ever happened ? Hell no, but it was singled out. It was singled out for broadcast for a reason. What is that reason ? T^T

tazzygirl -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 12:45:39 PM)
quote: So those places would be good for daycare centers ? That's the point. Public perception. Why wouldnt they be? Im not following your logic. Access to their own children is easy for the parents. Less stops on the way to work. If a kid gets sick, the parents are right there. Any problems, and the parents can be there much, much quicker. This is actually a very good solution to parenting and working. quote: This world has about six billion people on it. Is this the only atrocity that ever happened ? Hell no, but it was singled out. It was singled out for broadcast for a reason. What is that reason ? 9/11 was singled out. The Oklahoma bombing was singled out. Columbine was singled out. West Nickel Mines School shootings event was singled out. The attempt on Reagan was singled out. the Killing of JFK, MLK and many others were singled out. Again, its news... which they are in the business of reporting.

popeye1250 -> RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging (2/7/2011 12:45:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Hold on here Pops, et alii.......... Why do we have embassies there ? Is there some reason I don't know about other than oil or something ? That is one fucking little shitcan of a country. What the hell do we want with it ? What do they have ? Consider why we don't have embassies in zoos. Does it interest you to know that less than a continent away some huge neandrathal raped a one year old girl because the voodoo medicine man or whatever told him it would cure AIDS ? If you think we have to civilize the whole world you are just as wrong as the holy warriors. WE MUST IMPOSE OUR WAY ON THE INFIDELS, THE HERETICS, THE UNKNOWING. We must do this. It is our job to make the world just like our PERFECT FUCKING SOCIETY. Maybe we should civilize ourselves before we attampt to civilize others. T^T Term, no I don't. I think that in most cases our government should mind it's own business. We hear that they do things "for us" but it always seems that what they're doing is for big business. How is Hillary Clinton serving "my interests" by wanting to give billions of our tax dollars to foreign countries? Also, she's not supposed to be "an advocate" "for" foreign countries. A Secy of State should be going to weddings and funerals and not have access to our checkbook and trying to create , "a more vigorous foreign policy!" What the hell does that mean, "a more vigorous foreign policy?" And you know she wants to give more of our money to places like Haiti, Somalia and Darfur. That's one of the big problems in government, it seems like people are just making up their own "job-descriptions!" How's about Hillary Clinton start making trips to Detroit and Cleveland and helping out our own people for a change? What do you want to bet that we're still sending checks to that country even after they beat a 14 year old girl to death? Oh yeah, Hillary is real smart, even if she did go to "YALE."

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