RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (Full Version)

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DarkSteven -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/8/2011 5:38:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: strangedesire
I've tried to meet her Master, but he keeps being too tired, too busy, or otherwise unwilling to actually put himself in the same room as me. Kitten has met him and was very unimpressed - and I do trust her judgment.



This just reinforces the idea that you should keep your distance.  If you were to get involved, you'd have one of the two parties unavailable to present his POV.  She lies, and he stays out of things - the perfect cocktail to get you into a thoroughly messed up confusion.  If ya wanna play marriage counselor, ain't gonna work if you can only get one of the spouses in your office.



happylittlepet -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/8/2011 5:58:26 PM)

Strangedesire,

I commend you for contemplating what you can do.

It is very well possible that this is a sadistic dynamic that is a cover up for an abusive relationship.

If this is true, red flags:
quote:


After a fight, he marked her so badly that she didn't go to school the next day. He broke things of hers when angry. He threatened suicide when she told him she was thinking about leaving him.

quote:


and her Master is so upset to see her spending her time with another man that he leaves her. (Within a day, he's back, with gifts.)

and this:
quote:


And I've tried to meet her Master, but he keeps being too tired, too busy, or otherwise unwilling to actually put himself in the same room as me. Kitten has met him and was very unimpressed - and I do trust her judgment.


Don't get me wrong, they keep this going together,  but:

To me, an abusive relationship often shows a cycle: there are times things go very well, and times they are not well at all. The impression you get is different, depending on in which phase of the cycle the relationship is. When things seem to go better, you get a more optimistic story, when things are worse, the person withdraws or shows more discontentment, yet tries to justify what is going on. This could be seen as spin. To me, it shows that when things go better the victim has hope, when things go wrong the dissonance has to be decreased, so a reason for why things go wrong is sought.

The person in that situation feels caught and as having no control on what is going on. To those who understand/have/want an M/s dynamic, this might seem very 'normal', it looks like an exchange. The difference between being happy in it and being abused, to me would be if I see that person, the one with less power, be content and happy. If it's a 'healthy' power exchange, I expect to see the slave thrive. If the 'slave' doesn't thrive..... red flag. If that person has no financial backbone, no place to go, no friend to turn to... What then? The woman you describe might not know any better, she might show signs of 'learned helplessness'. Of course she has options, she just doesn't/can't see them.

If the partner with less power is unhappy, it is possible that neither partner is able to function well, or one of them, e.g. it is possible that the partner with the power has a mental illness. This can also lead to all kinds of abuse. It is also possible that she has a disorder or is dysfunctional. That doesn't mean she doesn't deserve a way out.

What makes it worse is when the partner without/with less power is submissive, and even worse, a masochist. It will be obvious why. 'It feels so good'.

What I do, when someone I know or someone I get to know indicates that there is an unequal balance of power in the relationship that they are not happy with (which is usually not a relationship with a M/s dynamic): I ask questions that make that person aware of their own responsibility, what they want to do about the situation and I gauge if that person has ways to get out. E.g. get a hold of a pamphlet of a local women shelter.

Sometimes it takes years for victims to actually get out. There is nothing you can do about it. But:

What you can do is, if this comes up in a conversation, hold her reality up in front of her, and ask her if she is really, truly happy in this situation.
Don't get emotionally involved, and I mean, too much empathy. She needs a 'tough' mirror, not someone who applauds her going on in the cycle. She will not like you for that.

If a woman like this leaves, it takes years for her to figure out what went on. If she figures it out. She might very well go back into the same kind of relationship until she figures out that she has enough of this.

If you don't know what to do, contact a shelter, or an organization that will counsel abused women, and ask what they suggest. That doesn't mean you have to tell about the dynamic, just about what seems to be odd, and what your options are.



For those who have indicated that they don't know anyone who is in a relationship like this, often abuse is very well hidden.
In case someone ever approaches you about what is going on behind closed doors, but you don't want to invest time in that person, remember the word SHELTER.

Edit: and for those who call it drama, what if it is really what is going on and you only get to see glimpses that look like drama?  Thus, hold her accountable on that part too, no point on having her waste your time or hers with drama if there is abuse but she needs to deal with. If she doesn't stop, then you set your own limit on what you will accept from her.



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/8/2011 5:59:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: strangedesire

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

That's how she's coming off to me, as she's made many of the same allegations as her "friend" (who wants her for himself), and yet... she's never met this girl's Master.  Worse, she's beyond involved in another couple's relationship.  That's simply not logical.... and in my experience, implies an interest beyond mere concern, especially since she's "played" with this girl.  The "White Knight" doesn't generally dash to free the damsel from the tower without riding off with her.  Your mileage may vary.



You are, of course, entitled to your opinions.


Yep.

quote:


I'm not romantically interested in the girl, and if I never had the opportunity to interact with her on a sadistic or sadomasochistic level again, I can't say that I'd be terribly upset. She was craving pain and her Master was busy. Why would I say no?


Ahh... fine and well... but again, to the point I made earlier, a 'nilla would view your "sadistic" behavior with said girl as "abuse", and that would be wrong, as it was consensual.  The same appears to hold true for the type of relationship she has with her Master... to you and yours, his behavior towards her may seem like "abuse", yet... she's planning on marrying him -- so she clearly does not view their relationship or her use as "abuse", but consensual and likely pain that she craves -- why would her Master say no?!!

quote:


I didn't respond to your earlier post because it contained a degree of vitriol (and represented an investment of time) that suggests to me that you are taking it rather more personally than seems warranted. I won't speculate on why.


Ahh... but you have just "speculated".  You're confusing factual for "vitriol".  Re-read my initial post... many do not use a "safe word"... many do not set "limits"... many have a significant "age difference"... many would like to be "engaged/married" to their Master... many wear a collar that they "can't remove"... many have "open relationships"... it is their relationship, not yours... your "friend" absolutely has a biased perspective.  What part of any of this is not factual?!!  Thus, you may be the one that's taken this "more personally".  No vitriol... just factual -- aside from the last comment, of course, which was opinion based on the OP... but no "vitriol" was intended.

quote:


I'll simply note that yes, consensual TPE happens, and yes, sometimes older men pick up young emotionally vulnerable girls and support them financially in the context of 24/7 BDSM and everything turns out OK.


Sorry, but this is just too "victimhood" for my taste.  Nobody is "picked up" that doesn't want to be "picked up".

quote:


However, a collar and a slave contract don't insure one against abuse. I'm familiar enough with the way abuse presents in vanilla relationships to know that "she has two feet... which she can use anytime to leave" is hardly an indication that the relationship ISN'T abusive.


No, a "collar" doesn't, and neither does a wedding ring, or anything else insure one against abuse.  BDSM is not mutually exclusive from any other type of relationship... and I feel, if she truly felt "abused", then she'd leave -- you'd stated she did one before, right?  She hasn't (despite all the supposed "abuse" and drama), and so... it's very likely completely consensual, and desired from a masochistic standpoint.  And as an aside, "slave contracts" are a meaningless joke... but that's another thread.

quote:


These stories about her Master come from two separate men, one of whom is quite kinky but doesn't think she's relationship material.


One of whom would like her for himself, so his opinion is meaningless.  But none of this matters anyway... the only thing that matters is what his sub/slave thinks -- and she appears ready to marry him.  'Nuff said.

quote:


And I've tried to meet her Master, but he keeps being too tired, too busy, or otherwise unwilling to actually put himself in the same room as me.


Or, he may have heard some of the things you've said about him and is not interested for that reason?  I don't know... but given this girl seems to love tellin' stories about others, it's not out of the realm of possibility that she's said things about you to him.

quote:


Kitten has met him and was very unimpressed - and I do trust her judgment.


Fine and well... but again, she's agreed to marry him, so everyone else's opinion of their relationship is moot... yours, mine, etc. 

quote:


Oddly enough, I'm capable of wanting to help my friends without wanting to possess them.


As a rule, I'd suggest you try to limit your help to those who truly want your help and are ready to help themselves... it just gets too messy when dealing with someone else's relationship/drama.  Life's too short.

quote:


I don't know that I can help her here, and I know well enough to restrain my impulse to dash in and try to fix things, but carrying her off would never be part of the deal.


You're right... you can't (and shouldn't) "help her here", as she doesn't appear to be truly seeking help, but rather, creating tons-o-drama... and that can only end badly for you and yours.  Again, life's too short.





angelikaJ -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/8/2011 6:12:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: strangedesire

So there's this girl.

She's 20 and her Master is 37. They're engaged. She wears a collar that she can't remove. They have a 24/7 relationship - no safewords, pretty much no limits. She lives with him in a house that they "rent" from a relative of hers. The relative only charges them taxes and utilities, and he pays all of it. He pays for her car insurance and her cell phone as well. Her mother was apparently abusive enough that moving back home isn't an option for her.

Their relationship is rocky, and my impression is that it's always been somewhat rocky. They have an open relationship, but he often seems displeased with her male partners. Me and my Kitten have played with her as well, and I believe he knows this, but doesn't seem bothered by it. I've never met him.

She was involved with an open-minded vanilla friend of mine for quite a while, and still speaks to him often. The stories he heard from her were clearly tripping into outright abuse. Her Master would lock her in a closet for days at a time. After a fight, he marked her so badly that she didn't go to school the next day. He broke things of hers when angry. He threatened suicide when she told him she was thinking about leaving him.

Kitten, much later, heard a slightly different story from her. She talked to Kitten about the way he'd hold her after play, and the way he seemed to be able to see her breaking point and stop right before she hit it. He'd locked her in a closet once, overnight, with a bucket and a blanket to sleep with. She skips classes often, and any mark bad enough to keep her home would have been visible a few days later.

We shrugged it off. She likes to tell people what they want to hear, and this male friend had thought her Master was trouble from the start. (And he was in love with her for quite a while - he had plenty of reasons to want her single.) He's very open-minded about kink, but something like "I hated it but I didn't tell him to stop because deep down I wanted it" sound very different to practicing sadomasochists. We assumed that she was twisting the truth a bit, perhaps unconsciously, and he was reinforcing it by responding with lots of sympathy and emotional support.

Fast forward a few months. The relationship is still rocky. She's recently become involved with another male friend of mine, and her Master is so upset to see her spending her time with another man that he leaves her. (Within a day, he's back, with gifts.) I'm in fairly regular contact with her, and hear about a few nasty things that he said to her. I provide sympathy.

At roughly the same time, she talks to her new lover. He hears about a nasty beating, and her staying home from school to hide the marks. (I saw her less than a week later. She had mild-to-moderate bruises on her back, but nothing visible under clothes. She wouldn't talk about the bruises, though.) She took him to her house and showed him the place that her Master locks her into these days. It's a small space between the basement proper and the bulkhead leading down to it. He sees snowdrifts inside it. I've never seen her house, although she's spent time at mine.

They talk, and she admits that her primary relationship is unhealthy.

Kitten and I are invited to crash in their hotel room one night at an upcoming fetish event. On facebook, she posts that she's just booked their wedding venue.

I don't know what to think. She's a masochist who likes serious humiliation, and wants a relationship where she doesn't have to take responsibility for herself. She doesn't have a safeword, so even if she really, truly, for serious didn't want something, she would have no way to stop it, and she's completely financially dependent on him. The things she does with him could be horribly abusive - or they could be completely consensual.

The difference is in the way she tells her story. It's spin.

I recognize that even if she is being abused, there isn't much I can do about it. I'm at a loss, though. Do I support her in staying with him even though they fight? Do I encourage her to leave him? Do I criticize her for playing things up to get sympathy from the men in her life, or do I give her the emotional support that she wants and them some?

The relationship is broken, and I don't doubt that. But I can't tell if it's the kind of broken that she can work through, or the kind of broken where I ought to be terrified that she lives alone with a temperamental sadist into edge play in a house that has no neighbors within screaming distance.

I'm not looking for solutions, because I don't think there are any. I do intend to talk to her directly about this fairly soon, so I can at least know where she thinks she stands.

Any thoughts? Advice? General feelings?


I think talking to her yourself will make you feel better, and that is okay.

It is pretty clear to me that she engages in attention seeking behavior: spinning the stories to get the effect she wants.

If she grew up in a home that was truly terrible then perhaps being rescued became her drug... or maybe she is trying to get now what she never got then: if not someone to save her, someone to pay attention and show her they give a damn.

I would let her know that she does have choices and safe options, but once you have done that I would do my best to stay out of it.
This is not the kind of middle one would want to be caught in.



Killerangel -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/8/2011 6:54:23 PM)

 I have found that people usually stick with what works for them. Therefore what your friend has works for her on some level. The thing you may want to watch for is when she doesn't want it, and wants to go, and if you feel like helping then or not. All in all it's her decision.

You can be there on the side to offer another opinion and show her another side to life, but you can't live her life for her. There are many people that I know where I cannot understand why they are in the relationships that they have chosen, but they stick with them because that's what they want underneath it all. It works for them, satisfies some need or they'd find a way out. One time I did help a friend leave an abusive relationship by buying her a one way plane ticket to go live with her mother and leave the abusive bf. She was ready, she asked for help, I decided to give it to her. Prior to that I knew her for a few years and while she didn't seem ecstatic, she did seem to want to stay with the bf. Then she decided she wanted something different and I gave her a hand. She never came back. It was the right time.

This girl seems to have what she wants, if she didn't she'd move on and perhaps ask for help which you could then decide on giving or not.



LadyPact -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/8/2011 8:30:45 PM)

I'm with the majority of folks here who say it might be a good idea to distance yourself from these folks.  The spin that you are referring to seems to be a lot of hearsay and not a lot of witnessed accounts.

If this woman came to you and said she was being abused, different story.  If she came to you and said she no longer consents to the activities in her dynamic, I'd see that in another way as well.  At this point, neither of these conditions exist.

StrangeDesire, you are a sadist, just like Me.  How would you like it if other people were interfering in your dynamic when none was asked for?



MercTech -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/8/2011 8:34:33 PM)

Ok, this thread gives me flashbacks....

Have you ever met someone that would spin their relationship to other parties looking for sympathy and going for the BBD... Bigger Better Deal.

I saw one that would play sympathy and go off to milk a new rescuer for all they could get then trot right back to the supposed abuser once they had what they wanted. She wrangled three cars out of three different guys over the space of two years and was still with the "abusive boyfriend" in the end.

Did she have infernally bad judgement or a good instinct for selfish manipulation... After watching her work over two of my troops (yeah, back in my Navy days) I came to believe it was the latter.

Stefan



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/8/2011 9:45:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Wow... So she spins stories... she says things about so and so and you think she isn't spinning stories about you? To him... to one lover or another... to family? I would be a friend to her in the sense that I would very frankly state that she needed professional help and that until she could stop spinning stories, there would be no play and most likely no contact. She is not only a danger to herself, but to anyone... ANYONE she is involved with.

You accept the spinner of stories all in the name of friendship or concern and you will become a part of the drama/insanity at some point. Your choice is to make a choice that helps you... and let her decide to continue, get help or whatever on her own. It is clear she doesn't want to stop the drama because there are options out there and she isn't taking them and she continues it.

I would pass.
Ditto!   I would step away from this, because it likely won't end well, and you'll lose sleep over it.   M



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/8/2011 9:48:58 PM)

The whole "White Knight" business. Here's my advice, you yourself have the Choice to be or not be a white knight. You should size up any situation and figure out if there's anything you can sincerely do that would make a difference or not. Think about the consequences and how this effects your own life, and those around you too.

Personally, there are times when I'm a White Knight... there are also times when I'll pass somebody a hand grenade and tell them how to pull the pin, and walk away. Because it's all on them, they need to take responsibility for their own choices and the consequences.

You yourself have to size things up and make a decision here. Also, you can decide to stay neutral. Meaning, you can sit and simply listen without giving any advice whatsoever. Sounds rather Heartless and indifferent, but at times you simply have to be that way for your own sanity.




gungadin09 -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/8/2011 11:54:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: strangedesire

So there's this girl.

She's 20 and her Master is 37. They're engaged. They have a 24/7 relationship - no safewords, pretty much no limits.

Their relationship is rocky, and my impression is that it's always been somewhat rocky. She was involved with a... vanilla friend of mine for quite a while... The stories he heard from her were clearly tripping into outright abuse. Her Master would lock her in a closet for days at a time. After a fight, he marked her so badly that she didn't go to school the next day. He broke things of hers when angry. He threatened suicide when she told him she was thinking about leaving him.

Kitten, much later, heard a slightly different story from her. She talked to Kitten about the way he'd hold her after play, and the way he seemed to be able to see her breaking point and stop right before she hit it. He'd locked her in a closet once, overnight, with a bucket and a blanket to sleep with. She skips classes often, and any mark bad enough to keep her home would have been visible a few days later.

...she admits that her primary relationship is unhealthy. On facebook, she posts that she's just booked their wedding venue.

I don't know what to think. She's a masochist who likes serious humiliation... The things she does with him could be horribly abusive - or they could be completely consensual.

The difference is in the way she tells her story. It's spin.

I'm not looking for solutions, because I don't think there are any. I do intend to talk to her directly about this fairly soon, so I can at least know where she thinks she stands.

Any thoughts? advice? General feelings?



It's difficult to judge anything from all this second and third hand information. What do You actually know for a fact? What have You, personally, heard her say or seen her do? i *hate* it when people engage in gossip and speculation. How long have You known this girl? Is she Your friend, or just an acquaintance? Why are most of Your complaints about what *other* people have seen or heard about her?

If You are concerned from hearing such disparate stories about her, why not ask her about it, give her the chance to answer for herself? i'm not saying Your other friends don't know what they're talking about, but there are always two sides to a story. It seems like You haven't heard her side yet, at least not from her own mouth. If You have, then it would've been better to use *those* examples, instead of listing examples of what everyone else is saying about her.

If You KNOW she's spinning stories and playing on people's emotions, if You know that for a fact, then stay away from her, for heaven's sake! On the other hand, i suppose it's possible to *both* be in an extreme borderline abusive relationship AND relish the abuse and cherish the abuser. What seems like spin to You may simply be her vacillating between romanticising the abuse and realising that it's unhealthy and she needs to get out of there.

It sounds like You've had these concerns for a while. You should have spoken up sooner. All these secret suspicions just fester. Until You talk to her directly, You don't know whether there is an explanation. That seems only fair, rather than judging her based on what other people have said.

Her relationship is not Yours to fix, even if it is abusive. The most i would do in Your situation is to express my thoughts candidly.

If You're not that close, then the drama probably isn't worth it. If she's a manipulative drama queen, then get the hell out of there. If not, tell her how You feel.

pam




porcelaine -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/9/2011 12:38:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: strangedesire

Any thoughts? Advice? General feelings?


Greetings,

She's in a relationship based upon a power exchange. Please give serious consideration to what that entails and the mindset of a person that might choose to enter them. Irregardless of what you perceive you don't possess the knowledge firsthand. Secondly, it is probable that your assistance will be viewed in a negative fashion and the friendship terminated if you provide advice that contradicts his edict. He is the law.

It doesn't matter if you like or respect it. She's chosen to enlist in his dictatorship. Furthermore, your case is diminished due to the physical interaction you've had. The other party will simply assume that you're a trouble maker and attempting to wreak havoc to wrest her from him. And at the end of the day I'm willing to bet her loyalties are with him and if pressed to decide you'll be left in the cold. In my opinion you're far too involved to be an unbiased party.

And another thought....

Many women are quick to advise that a woman walk away from her partner. They provide a host of reasons and believe their suggestions substantiate a failed situation that must come to a close. The irony is pretty telling. Oftentimes they have their own debacle that lingers like a bad germ. But they rarely take their medicine and do the same. That's the danger of looking from the outside. The vantage point is always skewed.

Namaste,

~porcelaine



bornbothsexes -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/9/2011 12:54:09 AM)

YOu should be there for her but reber to each there own what not for you may be for outhers



allthatjaz -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/9/2011 3:06:32 AM)

I can't add much to what others have said but from reading your initial post I can say that I have known people like her and I think anyone who has been around the BDSM scene for a while have met her at least once.

I think your putting yourself in a situation of 'your darned if you do and your darned if you don't' but my advice would be to stay well away and certainly don't try and get involved more than what you are right now.
He probably doesn't want to meet her friends because they show him little respect because of what they have been told.
Has anyone spoken to him or does he have a past relationship where similar things have happened and can be confirmed by his ex partner?
Would she be any different if it was another man? or is this just an attention grabbing ploy where she constantly has to find white knights but actually doesn't want to be rescued?

Without being closer to her/them its impossible to know the truth but ya know, the truth is he could be a great Dom who is completely innocent and she could be a pathological liar.



LaTigresse -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/9/2011 3:41:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I am sorry but this almost sounds like a "white knight" situation with you and your partner riding to the rescue. There are people inside and outside of D/s who always seem to need rescuing and from what I have seen, until they get counseling to understand their own part in being someone's victim, they tend to end up either resenting the KNIGHT or they end up bored because the crises that shape their lives are gone.

My advice? Like those above Me so far, stay away.



This.

Easy trap to fall into so..........don't.



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/9/2011 3:27:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit

When someone says "no safe words and no limits" that either means:

1. They lied about safe words (Stop is a safe word.)
2. They lied about no limits (Safe words is what lets a dominant legally have no limits)
3. They are engaged in a criminal, abusive relationship.


Uhh... no, it doesn't.

quote:


By law, there is no legal way to give up your right to say no, Not even if you are declared insane.


The "law" only becomes a relevant component if one person elects to utilize it.

quote:


People however LOVE to brag. "I am so hard core' "I can take anything", "I have no limits", "I can take more pain than anyone else" "I don't use safe words, because I don't care what my dominant does. etc. etc. All bull.


I'm sure some "LOVE to brag", where for others, it's simply the way their relationship is structured. 

quote:


If you truly have no safe words and no limits, then the dominant could cut off the fingers of the submissive - oh, little child said no limits but they had a limit of no mainimg!.


Ever heard of a 'nilla person being murdered by a crazed lover/partner?  Sure you have... and I'll bet they didn't even know about "limits" or "safe words".  These things have been created by the BDSM crowd for the purposes of "playing" with someone new.  Many involved in long-term BDSM relationships treat them no differently than any other relationship, in that they don't fuss about much with these things because they very well know (and trust) their partner.

Note:  Just because someone can be an abuser, doesn't mean someone will be an abuser -- this is true of any relationship.


quote:


People brag, but don't fall for their crap. This is real life we are talking about, not a fantasy.


People on kink forums "brag" as well... as if they know enough about every relationship to deem someone else's relationship "crap". 

quote:


The relationship as described, sounds like #3. It is not safe, not sane, and not consensual. The participants are not aware of the risks. Of course, I am responding to a third party description. It is quite likely that the relationship has safe words or limits, but the poster, not being in the relationship, is not aware of it.


I'd have to respectfully disagree... personally, I've not read anything here that supports the assertion their coupling is not:  "safe", "sane", "consensual", or that either are "not aware of the risks".  But to each their own.

quote:


(The only "Total Power Exchange" couple I know negotiated limits clearly and in writing AND they use a safe word. The dominant still makes ALL the decisions - from what they wear, to what they eat, to what they read.)


Yeah... umm... ya might wanna get out more, then -- either that, or stop basing your very concrete opinions on just one couple.

NEWSFLASH:  My relationship is of the "Total Power Exchange" ilk (and not the first) and we have "no safe word" and "no set limits".  And look... nobody has lost any fingers!!! (GASP!!!)  All joking aside, for some, trust and you know... actually really knowing your partner goes quite a lot farther than "set limits" and/or "a safe word".  Though I'm sure you probably think I'm just "bragging".




littlewonder -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/9/2011 8:12:11 PM)

Imo you don't get involved..period.

When she complains about her relationship tell her you don't want to hear it.

When she tells you some kind of good news about her relationship then tell her "good for you" and nothing more.

Just simply don't get involved. It's not your relationship and not your concern.

If she continues to badger you for advice then ask her if she really wants the truth. When she says yes then tell her exactly how you feel and let the chips fall where they may.




vegetablelamb -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/10/2011 4:34:31 AM)

I'm with some of the others in regards to both parties having problems. It's unsettling to think to could do something and simply don't because you're not sure, but in the end she is an adult. She'll need to see the problems she's having mentally and in her relationship on her own and make a conscious decision to fix it. I'd be uncomfortable with a situation like her's simply because of the possible isolation and dependency, so I personally wouldn't want to put myself in or remain in a state like that.

Try and stay out of it unless she asks for your opinion/help/etc, then bring up your issues with her twisting of stories and such? Good luck.



lally2 -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/10/2011 5:42:32 AM)

FRish:)

. how can you have an open discussion with someone who tells lies and wants to be considered the poor battered victim and no doubt stays because she wants to be a poor battered victim.

how scared can she be of him and how bad can he be if she tells lies, cheats and still goes home to him.

in the end she clearly has enough freedom to meet other men, so presumably she has the same freedom to get up and go with her new man or men.  so why doesnt she....

i would postulate because she likes to be a battered victim and wants everyone to see her as a battered victim because ultimately that is her kink.

if you must become part of her manipulated entourage, do so with open eyes and dont get too emotionally involved



NocturnalStalker -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/10/2011 7:14:42 AM)

You could...kill her...



lizi -> RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin (2/10/2011 8:48:26 AM)

There's too much drama, walk away.
If you want to have a superficial type aquaintence relationship you can try to keep it at that, but it seems as though the girl is too invested in her own drama not to inflict it upon everyone she knows. This suits her, you can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved. If she asks for help you can be a friend, but even then you'd have to sift through true and not true in order to see what you'd do. Honestly, it's not worth the cost to yourself. It's commendable to want to help others but you can't help anyone who doesn't truly want it or is using things of her own making to satisfy a need she has within.



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