Limits vs. Needs (Full Version)

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stephiegirl -> Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 3:09:57 AM)

You can tell I'm new here, so please excuse any faux pas I might make.

I need help--mostly just to be heard by a community that understands my situation better than my beloved but vanilla friends. I've been talking to my Master about an impasse we've had for months, plus my personal therapist, our couples therapist, and my psychiatrist, so this is not a problem due to lack of communication.

My Master and I have been together for about a year and three months. He gave me his collar after we had been together for about three months, and we moved in together last summer. Being collared and moving in together made me so happy, and this summer and in early fall we were loving living together and both optimistic about the prospect of getting married. He was even shopping for engagement rings!

Then, sometime in the fall, something changed his mind and doubts about getting married made him withdraw somewhat. After hearing him in our last therapy session, I believe that this "something" was triggered by the most recent time I talked to him about a hard limit I've drawn--having my hair ripped out of my scalp. This has been an issue with us from the beginning of our relationship, and when I showed him the ball of hair and told him that this was unacceptable to me, his face fell and he was at a loss as to how to act.

Don't get me wrong: I LOVE having my hair pulled. Like others have said in previous posts, it sends me into subspace immediately and turns me on more quickly than anything. But I hate having my hair pulled out because it hurts so badly and makes me feel like my limit is being ignored. Meanwhile, he's arguing that it's not really that much hair and that he has been more careful not to do it very frequently. He sought advice about it on CollarMe--maybe some of you heard about it then.

At this point, I think that this impasse may destroy our relationship for good. I think we would both agree that we're compatible in nearly every other way except for me having this limit, but the fact that this is the one thing I refuse (well, the one thing I refuse that he really wants) has grown in his mind and I don't know if he can move beyond it.

Has anyone had a similar experience? I'm hoping that someone will say that their Master really wanted something they couldn't give, and with time, s/he finally respected that. But whatever you have to offer would be appreciated.

Thanks for listening.



dreamerdreaming -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 5:19:13 AM)

If he cares more about his fetish than he cares about you, he's wasting your time- and so are you.

Tell him to put on his big boy pants and get the fuck over it, or you'll be over him.


Sorry OP, I wish I had better news for you- but you say this has been an issue since the beginning of your relationship. If it isn't resolved to your mutual satisfaction by now- since its something so important to him- I don't think this bodes well. Anyone else to whom their fetish were so important would have taken the time to find a partner who loves it as much as they do.... Or at least likes it a lot.

So it sounds like the two of you are not the best match, D/s-wise. And he needs to get the fuck over it, and so do you. There is a solution to every problem. You may not like it, but there is one. Either find a solution to your mismatch in this area, that you both can be happy with.... Or seek a partner who's more into you, than his fetish.



DesFIP -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 5:23:03 AM)

Buy hair pieces, extensions. Then he can role play scalping you without causing you any harm. He does know that constant ripping it out will weaken the follicles and leave you partially bald?



lally2 -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 5:28:51 AM)

youve been to a psyche and a consultant and marriage counselling over this... are you serious??

everything else is great but he's getting his balls in a bunch because his authority and control over you stops short of yanking youre hair out by its roots -

presumably you cant tell him to grow up, so send him this way and no doubt most of us will.



poise -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 5:37:14 AM)

After hearing him in our last therapy session, I believe that this "something" was triggered by the most recent time I talked to him about a hard limit I've drawn--having my hair ripped out of my scalp.

You state that there is great communication between the two of you, and
that you even attend couples therapy together. Did you two start seeing the
couples therapist because of this issue alone, or were you seeing one previous to this.

I only ask because;

1. You say in the above quote that you believe the issue is your hard limit,
yet it seems you are only guessing as to the reason for the change.

2. If you have been visiting a couples therapist prior to the discussion about
your hair, there are also other issues you aren't mentioning.

I would ask him directly if he feels this hard limit of yours has suddenly become
the deal breaker you think it is. Once you know for sure you can
be more at ease in taking the necessary steps to resolve the issue together or move on.

As a side note, taking a Super B vitamin complex will help strengthen
your hair, and maybe allow you to tolerate more pulling.
Not that Im condoning you do so...just a helpful tip.



DarkSteven -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 6:00:29 AM)

Stephie, this is weird.  You post here and give us nothing of his side.

You state that there was a previous thread he posted on hair pulling but don't give us the link.

You have a personal therapist, a couples therapist, AND a psychiatrist?  Why so many?  And you state that this was brought up in couples therapy and don't give his response during the session?

Sorry, but you DO need to communicate better.  You have a hunch that the distance is caused by the hair pulling issue, but he hasn't confirmed it.  You state your feelings here and state that you've discussed things with him, but don't give his responses.

Dump your therapists if they haven't taught you to communicate.



IrishMist -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 7:01:47 AM)

I have to agree with everyone else that this is a communication issue.

Poise and DarkSteven gave you some excellent advice; I would pay attention.



stephiegirl -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 9:36:32 AM)

Thanks, everyone, for your feedback and advice.

Re: the communication issue
I agree that we need to talk more about this. The reason why I was hedging my guess about it so much is that the explicit connection between the hair pulling and his doubts about commitment just came out in therapy on Monday night. Since then, he's been ill and has been coming home from work and going straight to bed. Last night I asked him why he can be careful not to damage me when we're having anal sex or when he's controlling my breath, but he feels like holding back from pulling my hair out is too much to ask. He said he was thinking about that. And then I said, "It would be really sad if you decided you couldn't be with me because of my hair follicles." And he replied, "Yes, it would be sad. But I don't want this to be something that drives one of us away."

@DarkSteven: I don't know his handle here and I don't know where the post is...all he told me last fall is that he wanted to ask people on CollarMe for advice, and it was after that that he recommended I get an account here. You'll probably suggest that I ask for that information, and I probably should. As far as what his statements have been, in therapy on Monday, what he said was that this limit of mine triggered a memory of a vanilla girlfriend who was uncomfortable with the intense look he would get in his eye. It was that instance that made him aware that power exchange was a vital part of him. So he feels like I am putting restrictions on what he wants to do while he's in the throes of passion (my phrase, not his...I can't remember his exactly). And he also said that knowing that he can't pull my hair as hard as he'd like makes him think about pulling other women's hair. That's where the session ended and he's been sick since then. My recent insomnia also makes me ruminate over this but I don't think it would be fair to make him talk to me about it at 5 a.m. when he has to work in the morning.

@Poise: We started seeing a marriage counselor two weeks ago after weeks of us trying to figure out why he wasn't sure about marriage any more. He's said things over the span of those weeks like: he didn't know if he could stay monogamous his whole life, that if he found a partner who fulfilled 98% of his needs that the remaining 2% would grow until he felt he needed to find a way to satisfy it. I'm putting this together in my mind, but you're right, I need to verify it with him. I want to talk to him specifically about this tonight and as you asked, if this is the deal breaker I think it is. If we both know that for sure, we can decide what to do about it.

Finally, I'm open to taking supplements to strengthen my hair, but if this really *isn't* this issue, then supplements won't work.

Thanks again, and I'll try to update after we talk privately and with my therapist tonight.




DesFIP -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 10:29:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
You have a personal therapist, a couples therapist, AND a psychiatrist?  Why so many? 


Actually, that is the proper way to do it.

A psychiatrist for medication for treatable disorders such as unipolar or bipolar depression, anxiety disorders, social phobia etc.

Couple therapy to help learn how to communicate better.

And individual therapists to work on baggage from family of origin and/or previous relationships.

I'm assuming he's seeing a therapist to work on his baggage also? It isn't just you getting healthy?



leadership527 -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 11:35:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stephiegirl
Has anyone had a similar experience? I'm hoping that someone will say that their Master really wanted something they couldn't give, and with time, s/he finally respected that. But whatever you have to offer would be appreciated.

I can see both sides of this.

It would be totally unacceptable -- even unthinkable -- for Carol to tell me that there is something she won't do. Our relationship is a TPE relationship. So whether or not I actually wanted to do the thing, it's unacceptable for her to have a limit. Such a decision on her part invalidates the relationship as a whole. If she did such a thing, then our M/s relationship would be at an end. The difference though, for us, is that this wouldn't end our marriage. It'd simply mean that we need to rethink how we want our marriage to look going forward. Clearly TPE isn't the answer, so then perhaps some limited form of D/s would work better for us?

On the other hand... I can't really imagine myself wanting something so badly that was bad for Carol. Why would I want that? In the end, it is HER that is important to me, not "a generic slave". I can't even BE happy unless she is also. That is what love means to me. My general strategy on such things is to first decide how badly I want it versus how badly she does not and try to come up with some sort of "best fit" answer. If I still decide it's good for us (note... US, not me) then I will expect her to like it also. Should that fail (which it has not so far), then I'd be re-evaluating how badly she didn't want to do it. I can bank on total effort on her part so if it doesn't work then... well... it doesn't work. At that point, it really isn't a "limit" per-se. It's more like commanding her to sprout wings and fly and seeing the command fail.

To your specific problem, it seems to me that there are pragmatic and emotional sides to this. Pragmatically, if he pulls all your hair out, then you end up thinning or bald plus it hurts a lot when he does it. Or, alternately, if he only does it very occasionally, then it just hurts a lot. Those ramifications are either appropriate in your mind or they are not. You have to decide whether you want a relationship based upon you setting limits. You have to figure what's good for you (and him) as best your able. My opinions on that won't help.

If there are also emotional snags around pulling your hair out, then you have to decide if it's worth digging deep and changing them. Again, as I said above, this is something I expect of Carol. It's something she expects of herself... and always has... long before the collar. The question to you is whether YOU expect that of yourself. Again, I can't help you with that and there is no "right" answer. It's only a question of compatibility.

I hope any of that rambling helps

~Jeff



obis -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 12:20:30 PM)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3485520/tm.htm



RCdc -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 12:58:33 PM)

My question would be... why are you in such therapy? I don't want to know the reason, but if you are in therapy then there must be a reason and one of the results of this is stress.

Stress is a big contributing factor to hair loss.

Medications, illness, diet, lack of iron and even something like the kind of hairstyle one has all contribute. After having a child, that can make hair weaker and thinner... as can menopause. Time of year as well, as hair goes through growth cycles and you will find hair is thinner at the end of it's cycle. Or she just might have naturally thinning hair.

obis, you have to realise that not everyone's hair or scalp can take the same punishment and you need to either accept that this is her limit or because it's not something that might be overcome with anything.



DesFIP -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 1:19:50 PM)

I will say that after the follow up post, I don't think the hair is the issue. Suddenly, after all this time, he just discovers that he can't commit to monogamy whereas he's had no problem doing just that for a year. I think he's just gotten cold feet and is seizing on any and everything in order to find something that the op will say is a hard limit so he has an excuse to break up with her, while claiming it's all her fault for not being truly submissive That line about not being able to do without even a minor thing makes me raise an eyebrow.



sexyred1 -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 1:35:42 PM)

I agree with Des. There is no way in hell that someone who actually loves you would not be able to marry you because he cannot yank your hair out of your head.

My immediate thought upon seeing all of the therapists involved, was WTF? Obviously there are so many other underlying reasons and it is likely that this is the easiest thing for him to say rather than the thing that would likely hurt you, that is unsure of his ability to be monogamous.

If he says you having this limit makes him think about other women, that is emotional blackmail and fuck that.

Personally, I love having my hair pulled, but if anyone on the planet did it so hard they pulled it OUT??? That guy would be minus a testicle.

By the way, don't judge your own relationship on what other people here or anywhere say about theirs. Just because a Dom says, it is my way or nothing, does not mean you have to do everything.

Be true to yourself and your limits. No guy is worth hurting yourself or damaging yourself over.



angelikaJ -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 6:05:59 PM)

I think there is something that he just does not relate to in this that may or may not be relevant: the pain.

It is certainly relevant to you and currently is irrelevant to him.

My suggestion is that he should go get a furry part of his body waxed.

It might or might not make a difference in how he perceives your limit.



poise -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 6:20:39 PM)

[sm=goodpost.gif]
mucho wiffles to you!



OsideGirl -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 6:23:12 PM)

quote:


If he says you having this limit makes him think about other women, that is emotional blackmail and fuck that.
It goes beyond this even. In the world of therapy kinky sex is okay, but if it's the only you can have sex, then there's something wrong. Same here, if the only way he can have a relationship is with someone that will let him rip their hair out, there's something wrong.



littlewonder -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 6:49:42 PM)

Pull his hair out and see how it feels for him. Seriously, he just may change his mind.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 7:33:55 PM)

it seems really strange that he's had a complete lack of ability to communicate and lost "something" because he can't yank out your hair. i can't imagine someone who loves you also wanting to do something that totally harms you. hurt vs harm can sometimes be a great area in BDSM, but most people strive to AVOID real harm. so for him to have this reaction when you've said "it harms me to have my hair yanked out," that's really worrying for me. like REALLY.
and yes -- saying "i'm thinking about other women because of what you said" -- that's emotional blackmail to get what he wants. NOT COOL.



January -> RE: Limits vs. Needs (2/10/2011 8:01:01 PM)

Here's what your Master said in his thread:

She's said many times how her hair is an attribute that has always attracted men, and it's literally the only part of her physically that she's resisted surrendering to me.

He wants to pull your hair out. You don't like it. His motivation, may, in fact, be to make sure you no longer think you are attractive to other men.

Irrespective of his real reasons, his ultimatums demanding you submit to getting your hair ripped out is not a lack of communication, it's a lack of care. I agree with the other posters who say he's got cold feet about marrying you and is looking for excuses. It's time for you to do some analysis, and contemplate the difference between stubborness and dominance. It's time for him to consider the difference between a relationship based on fantasy, and a goodbye.

Good luck.

January



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