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nakedplaything -> RE: I demand your undivided attention. (2/15/2011 10:16:02 PM)
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‘ "femininity, traditionally, is associated with a certain amount of vulnerability and weakness." So basically, you have inherently stronger men and inherently weaker women.’
No, that’s not what I meant. For a start you obviously ignored the part where I said ‘I think women are stronger than men in many ways’. I said ’traditionally’, that does NOT mean I think women are weaker. I was referring to society’s traditional, conditioned, pre conceived interpretations of femininity. I was also referring to femininity on a physical basis – i.e. we associate vulnerability etc with femininity because women ARE usually physically weaker than men.
‘"For a man to be made to wear highly feminine clothing is humiliating for him, because it reduces his masculinity." What you're saying here is that moving along the spectrum from masculine to feminine is undesirable, and therefore humiliating. The built-in value judgment here is that it's better to be masculine than feminine.’
Wrong! The built in value judgment is that it is better to be masculine than feminine if you have no desire to be feminine. No, I am not saying moving from masc to fem is undesirable. I am saying it is undesirable if it is forced , and THAT’S what makes it humiliating. Additionally, feminine clothing is also revealing – skintight items, see through items etc etc, much more revealing than the clothes men usually wear, and as anyone knows, forced exposure of ones body is inherently humiliating, so for a man, being forced to wear feminine clothing is humiliating him because it exposes him more than he chooses to be exposed, and more than he is used to being exposed. Then there is the fact that the average man would look quite ridiculous in feminine clothing because it is not designed to look good on him, and being forced to look ridiculous is also humiliating.
‘"it definately makes her powerful over men, because of the strong effect it has on us sexually.” It suggests that women cannot be powerful unless they are sexually attractive.’
Wrong! It suggests this to YOU. It would not suggest it to someone less reactionary and more rational because they would know I was simply making a statement on how sexually powerful a woman’s clothes can be, and that I wasn’t saying that is the ONLY way a woman can be powerful. You have simply assumed that I think that is the only way a woman can be powerful, when their is actually no evidence for that. So are you disagreeing that a woman’s clothes can have a powerful effect on men sexually? If you are then you clearly live under a rock and have no understanding of male sexuality and the things that turn men on. Has no one ever told you that men are highly susceptible to visual stimulation sexually?
‘It suggests that women don't have any inherent power - they have to use their sexual wiles to get power from men. Needless to say, telling dominant women that they can't be powerful without male approval tends to piss them off. Also, feminists. Also, lesbians.’
and……
‘It suggests that female power is limited to spheres where women can exercise their sexuality. Which is funny, because I don't usually see female CEOs wearing lingerie on the job.’
Again, you assume I mean that is the only way women can be powerful, when there is no evidence that’s what I meant. OBSERVING AND ACKNOWLEDGING THAT A WOMAN CAN HAVE A POWERFULL EFFECT ON A MAN SEXUALLY BY THE WAY SHE DRESSES IS NOT AN OBSERVATION OF THE NUMBER OF WAYS A WOMAN CAN BE POWERFULL, IT IS SIMPLY AN OBSERVATION THAT THAT IS ONE WAY IN WHICH SHE CAN BE POWERFULL.
‘It ignores the fact that women have sex drives of their own. Otherwise, wouldn't sexually attractive men also have this kind of power over women?’
No they wouldn’t, because I am speaking in terms of VISUAL STIMULATION! And It is common knowledge that men are stimulated and turned on more by visual stimulation, while women are turned on more by emotional and psychological stimulation. When was the last time you got turned on simply by looking at something? - it happens to men on a daily basis. Why on earth would I believe that women do not have sex drives of their own?
‘Re: the point above, don't try the "women can control themselves and men can't" line. That's rape-apologist bullshit.’
WTF? What planet are you on lady? I make a simple observation of the fact that, as men are very visual creatures, a woman’s clothing can have a powerful effect on them sexually, and you make the bizarre, twisted and gigantic leap of logic that I am saying men cant control themselves, and therefore am making apologies for rapists!!!??? How dare you. I have spent more of my life torturing myself with the injustices, stereotypes and misogyny that rape victims are up against than I care to remember. I have written to all manner of people about the appalling treatment rape victims can receive. You seriously need to get out more and not think so much!!
You think your so clever don’t you, the patronising tone of your message makes that clear. However in actual fact, after reading this, it should be clear to you that you are way off the mark in every respect, and that your psychoanalysation of me couldn’t have been any more wrong if you tried. The irony is that you said there is a problem with the way I relate to women, but in actual fact it is completely clear that it is YOU who has a problem in the way you relate to men, sexuality and gender. You are the most reactionary, overly sensitive in relation to gender issues and extremist feminist woman I have ever corresponded with. Like I said, you seriously need to get out more, not analyze so much, and not take everything so seriously. You say in your profile that you don’t hate men. And I believe you, but you definitely are far too ready and keen to jump on things that men say and interperate them as sexist/mysoginistic etc etc. your completely inacurate psychoanalysis of me shows this. You have a massive chip, on your shoulder regarding gender and sexuality issues, which explains your extreme, inaccurate response to my post.
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Eating brains since 1994.
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