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RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/1/2011 8:46:41 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2011/03/01/wisconsin_walker_budget_unions/

Wonder how this will go over, or are our national concerns already outshone by the international concerns of the middle east?

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RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/1/2011 9:30:30 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		This is what amazed me from a side story in your link:

John Boehner says unions have "a machine gun" pointed "at the heads of local officials"


The House Speaker used particularly violent rhetoric when talking about Wisconsin to a Christian TV network Video By Adam Clark Estes

  • AP/Alex Brandon House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio takes part in a news conference on Capitol Hill. House Speaker John Boehner likened unions' actions in the Midwest to armed hostage-takers in an interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network on Sunday. Blaming states' dependence on federal bailouts and criticizing Obama's involvment, Boehner did not mince his words:
    In some of these states, you've got collective bargaining laws that are so weighted in favor of the public employees that there's almost no bargaining. We've given them a machine gun and put it right at the heads of the local officials and they really have their hands tied. And I think what you're seeing in these states is they're trying to bring some balance to these negotiations that when you look at the pay of public employees today and you look at their retirement benefits they are way out of line with many other working Americans.



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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/1/2011 9:41:11 AM   
    mnottertail


    Posts: 60698
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    Status: offline     		Beener's been boning up on Alinsky.  Happiness is a warm gun when dealing with the military industrial complex. 

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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/1/2011 9:49:17 AM   
    rulemylife


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: mnottertail

    Beener's been boning up on Alinsky.  Happiness is a warm gun when dealing with the military industrial complex. 


    Even more interesting was his comment that public employees' pay was out of line with most Americans' pay.

    I guess he forgot he was a public employee.

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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/1/2011 9:53:28 AM   
    Musicmystery


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    quote:

    when you look at the pay of public employees today and you look at their retirement benefits they are way out of line with many other working Americans


    And way short of other working Americans. But that's not really the point.

    The bruhaha ignores that (1) administrations entered knowingly into contracts (2) with funding approved by legislators (3) but in all but a few states, neglected to set aside the resources to met their negotiated obligations.

    Now, (4) they want to blame the workers for administration/legislatures' own failure to prudently and responsibly plan, favoring short term gain over long term fiscal responsibility.

    THAT'S the issue. If now it's time to suffer, then raise taxes and spread the suffering. Oops. THAT will never fly...

    So they go on the attack.

    But even if they win, they STILL haven't addressed the underlying problem...emphasis on the syllables "lying."

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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/1/2011 11:56:17 AM   
    Moonhead


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: rulemylife

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: mnottertail

    Beener's been boning up on Alinsky.  Happiness is a warm gun when dealing with the military industrial complex. 


    Even more interesting was his comment that public employees' pay was out of line with most Americans' pay.

    I guess he forgot he was a public employee.


    And he certainly has a vastly better medical plan than the evil liberal teachers...

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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/1/2011 12:01:38 PM   
    mnottertail


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    Status: offline     		Can't get the full details, but in his sharing the burden speech only the cuts to one part of the union were covered, not much else on the other public unions, but I did not see anything in the proposal requiring the legislature or other state government officials to kick a little into the pot, so I am almost convinced that this sophistry of his is well, sophistry. 

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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/1/2011 12:03:04 PM   
    Moonhead


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    Status: offline     		Sophists tend to do that, I've noticed: they're very good at sophistry.

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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/1/2011 12:08:09 PM   
    mnottertail


    Posts: 60698
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    Status: offline     		Precisely, or the vast majority of them, at any rate.

    Sort like a hack and slash game.

    ISSUE:

    It begs the question:

    Can a swoop be consummated if it be not fell?

    I ask you; Aethelred the Unready.

    < Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/1/2011 12:13:10 PM >

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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/1/2011 12:11:14 PM   
    Moonhead


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    Status: offline     		I'll have you know that I'm Aethelred the Eveready: I used to advertise batteries...

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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/1/2011 2:05:10 PM   
    Sanity


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    From: Nampa, Idaho USA
    Status: offline     		Fast reply -

    Editorial, By ROBERT BARRO at the WSJ:

    quote:

    Unions vs. the Right to Work


    Collective bargaining on a broad scale is more similar to an antitrust violation than to a civil liberty.


    How ironic that Wisconsin has become ground zero for the battle between taxpayers and public- employee labor unions. Wisconsin was the first state to allow collective bargaining for government workers (in 1959), following a tradition where it was the first to introduce a personal income tax (in 1911, before the introduction of the current form of individual income tax in 1913 by the federal government).

    Labor unions like to portray collective bargaining as a basic civil liberty, akin to the freedoms of speech, press, assembly and religion. For a teachers union, collective bargaining means that suppliers of teacher services to all public school systems in a state—or even across states—can collude with regard to acceptable wages, benefits and working conditions. An analogy for business would be for all providers of airline transportation to assemble to fix ticket prices, capacity and so on. From this perspective, collective bargaining on a broad scale is more similar to an antitrust violation than to a civil liberty.

    In fact, labor unions were subject to U.S. antitrust laws in the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890, which was first applied in 1894 to the American Railway Union. However, organized labor managed to obtain exemption from federal antitrust laws in subsequent legislation, notably the Clayton Antitrust Act of 1914 and the National Labor Relations Act of 1935.


    More here




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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/1/2011 2:15:04 PM   
    mnottertail


    Posts: 60698
    Joined: 11/3/2004
    Status: offline     		Why is the wholesale price of gas so close place-to-place, further; why is the retail price of gas invariably equivalent place-to-place?

    Why does Wal-Mart sell their junk so cheap? 

    That WSJ OP ED should not even be dignified with the perjorative specious, since it is sophistry sans symmetry.

    Ugly arguments founded on piss poor analogy. Ignoratio elenchi beyond non sequitur. 

    I imagine these boys get together and talk about baseball, and play drinking games and swap wives.

    http://www.allbusiness.com/engineering-accounting/management-public-relations/4025547-1.html

    < Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/1/2011 2:32:54 PM >

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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/1/2011 4:01:15 PM   
    NihilusZero


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

    These are some of the most cogent points brought up on this issue from the least favorable side of the argument.

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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/1/2011 4:54:34 PM   
    eihwaz


    Posts: 367
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    This appears a variant of a "starve the beast" strategy.

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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/2/2011 1:50:16 AM   
    SexyBossyBBW


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Sanity
    Union goons marching on a mans house shouting "kill the bill" are supposed to have what kind of an effect on the mans innocent neighbors and family?

    Typical hypocritical double standards, Dem Lib words mean absolutely nothing.
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
    12 people were shot that day, six died, and you fucking dare to compare  walking to a house and demonstrating??
    Ugly fucking ignorant position to take
    well done
    "Kill the bill" sign, to save our jobs/survival, and "lock and load to fight these people in the districts trying to have protected middle class jobs" are hardly the same thing.   Has someone threatened Mr Walker's life?   Have the protesters been bringing overt guns and ammo?     M


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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/2/2011 5:52:36 AM   
    Sanity


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    Yes.

    quote:

    Has someone threatened Mr Walker's life?


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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/2/2011 6:01:37 AM   
    tazzygirl


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    Status: offline     		Funny how you didnt view that as a threat when Palin did it.

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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/2/2011 6:12:55 AM   
    Sanity


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    Of course not, because that would be stupid.
    Palin Spox: Targets on SarahPAC Map Were Actually 'Surveyor's Symbols'


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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/2/2011 6:15:48 AM   
    Sanity


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    See the difference?


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    RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 3/2/2011 6:21:53 AM   
    Sanity


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    Whats really funny taz, is how you and your ilk are using the Giffords shooting to justify these tactics, after a supposed call for civility from Obama himself.

    Seems like you would be first on the bandwagon condemning that sort of behavior, but instead you are championing it.


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