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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 1:24:10 AM   
Fellow


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quote:

And your conclusion is based on what evidence and facts?

I did not mention the accelerated climate change idea is wrong. It is based on observations. I do have respect for scientific data and knowledge. The only thing I said was the current climate change models are not reliable to make future predictions. I do know personally several scientists who are involved in this line of research. It is irritating the topic is highly politicized.

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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 1:38:20 AM   
came4U


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Status: offline 		That will be the day climate-tax nutbars are the know all of 'footprints' reduction and waste.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/6736517/Copenhagen-climate-summit-1200-limos-140-private-planes-and-caviar-wedges.html


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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 4:46:15 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

Scientists have changed the story: now we are talking about climate change not global warming. Some propose we are entering into a small Ice Age. Scope of the human factor in this is still under question; Solar activity seems to be the main reason. I totally agree with the scientist that we need to save energy as much as possible. The US needs to actually redesign totally its infrastructure in order to survive as a functioning society  in long run. Huge suburban single family housing far from businesses and stores, three cars per family, lack of public transportation and so can not continue long (falling apart already).


I thought we were supposed to be having global warming.   now it is an ice age?    Come on.   Would someone make up our minds for us?

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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 5:00:17 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

If scientists are calling for a reduction in food consumption as a means of tackling climate change, then I say, let it start with them, instead of spouting theories, let them demonstrate their beliefs by doing what they theorise. Now, if it is seen our world boffins arebecoming impoverished due to their beliefs, perhaps the world will take note, but anyone can spout theories, living up to those theories is a different matter.

But the scientists might have a point, and that point, is meat, cow meat to be specific and with cows, cow farts, for the western demand for a meat rich diet means more cows and therfore more cow farts, which have been proved to be a problem to our atmosphere.

Furthermore for the amount of land cows take up to feed a minority of the world population, i.e., mostly the west, could that land be better employed producing cereal crops for the increasing world's dietery requirements.

I wonder how long it will be before arable land becomes the world's concern as oppose to a country's concern.
The worlds population is increasing rapidly, all those people need to be fed.



I dunno. Looking around I think there are just more than a few hundreds of millions of people that could do with a bit less food and pushing away from the trough every now and then...

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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 5:01:58 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

And your conclusion is based on what evidence and facts?

I did not mention the accelerated climate change idea is wrong. It is based on observations. I do have respect for scientific data and knowledge. The only thing I said was the current climate change models are not reliable to make future predictions. I do know personally several scientists who are involved in this line of research. It is irritating the topic is highly politicized.



Oh yeah, Would that be Dumb and dumber from asswipe university?

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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 5:47:25 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

Just who?

Just use Google. I do not want to initiate debate here. People who are against mainstream mantra (this is where the most funding is) face  vicious attacks and smear campaigns. The fact is today's climate models are not adequate to make firm conclusions.



That is true.    And if the poles are shifting- that has nothing to do with carbon.

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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 7:40:44 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Perhaps the truth is, our scientists have developed enough to understand there is a change afoot, but they in reality do not know whether that change is good or bad, because they lack the time frame of observation, and cannot see into the future, so all they can do, when asked, is theorise based upon what they know, whether that be a lot, or a very little in the great scheme of things. I believe despite the fact that we have technology to aid us, it is prehistoric compared to what it could be, because we simply do not know enough about this planet and it's place in the universe, so by that, I believe scientists are just guessing for now, and their arrogance does not help them in their education of the layman, or could it be, their arrogance is in reality camouflage for what they don't know.

From a pagan viewpoint, this planet to me, is a self sustaining machine that looks after itself no matter what. It has like a machine, a finite lifespan, it will trundle on for as long as it will,or it will stop when it will, as is the will of machines. Us, that live on it's surface, life in it's myriad forms. We are parasites to this planet, we exist because the correct conditions for life exist and that, is that. The planet does not owe us anything, but we owe it massively for the life it allows us to have, so going around abusing this planet's skin is not a good idea, for like humans that have been attacked by a parasite, we seek to cure the problem, the planet may do also and with that, fuck whatever parasite is there at the time, as an irritation is an irritation to be got rid of, we know it well.

So , what have we, what abuses have we done to this planet, well for sure the two thousand odd nuclar weapon detonations above and under ground couldn't have been good for the planet, let alone the tektonic plates, how long does it take for a vibration to unsettle something in planetary terms.

Nature, I see as the planet,  it works in harmony with the planet, it uses and back feeds to the planet, it is nature that we have to live by, because it governs us completely, fuck with it, it will fuck with us to stabilise itself and in nature, which life form is the most important, us ?, I hardly think it matters, we are to nature what every other life form is to nature, one becomes a problem, nature will fight back only to achieve a balance, perhaps the good of the many, as opposed to the good of the few, sacrifices have happened and will again to achieve the natural order.

Does the planet have intelligence, well, first we must define intelligence.


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Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 11:35:36 AM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		Personally, I figure mother earth will do something to put humans in check, a couple of super volcano eruptions should do the trick nicely.

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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 11:56:33 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Yep, but that's ominously close to Lovelock's Gaia theory, and a lot of people doubt that things would have got this bad in the first place if the biosphere was a single self regulating organism, don't they?

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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 1:11:28 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		We have a hundred and fifty years of temperature data. The last fifty of those years were more precise by orders of magnitude than the first fifty. A hundred and fifty years ago today, J.C. Maxwell's unified equations for electricity and magnetism had not yet been published. Radio had not yet been invented. Transatlantic telegraphy had not yet been successful.

Now let's talk about the word about the word average. There are fourteen different definitions for the word average. Even if we assume average to be some sort of mean, there are nine of those. Which one is being used? Which one is best for this purpose? Let's say I use a quadratic mean. What period am I integrating over? If I use a weighted mean, how do I weight the values? Can you see how it could be both problematic and appropriate to use a truncated mean?

Back to that temperature data. Where are these observatories that I'm recording temperatures at? Are they near populated areas (heat islands)? How many of them are at the poles? When I go back to average my data, how do I account for the fact that the poles are the coldest places on Earth while still using the data obtained there? How am I recording temperatures for the 70.8% of the Earth's surface that's covered in water?

Earth's temperature and climate are both periodic. That means they change in cycles. One of these cycles is well known to us, that is to say: the seasons. There are other cycles, however. The Earth's magnetic poles flip every so often. Precession of the Earth's orbit causes our seasons to flip. We have had multiple ice ages. Some of these things have a period much greater than a hundred and fifty years. We don't have nearly enough data to show that any kind of observable fluctuations in our climate are not part of a naturally occurring cycle.

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 3:08:32 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

We have a hundred and fifty years of temperature data. The last fifty of those years were more precise by orders of magnitude than the first fifty. A hundred and fifty years ago today, J.C. Maxwell's unified equations for electricity and magnetism had not yet been published. Radio had not yet been invented. Transatlantic telegraphy had not yet been successful.

Actually we have much more temperature data than that. We have tree ring and ice core data going back over one hundred thousand years.

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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 3:32:06 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

It was always too late to avert catastrophe. The best we could have done would have been to delay it for a few years - maybe even a decade or two - but in the end, there was never any way to avoid "Mad Max." The oil supply would always have been finite and dwindling, and the demand would always have been increasing with population growth. The human race does not have the capacity to save itself; it's not in our DNA.



The human race has demonstrated time and again that it can and will save itself.

I'm really tired of listening to this doom and gloom nonsense.

And you are not the only one.  We have another regular poster who feels it is her duty every few months to remind us how civilization as we know it is collapsing.

It's becoming tiresome.

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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 4:45:33 PM   
outhere69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow
quote:

Just who?

Just use Google. I do not want to initiate debate here. People who are against mainstream mantra (this is where the most funding is) face  vicious attacks and smear campaigns. The fact is today's climate models are not adequate to make firm conclusions.

That is true.    And if the poles are shifting- that has nothing to do with carbon.

Which poles?  There are several North and South poles.

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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 4:48:17 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

Just who?

Just use Google. I do not want to initiate debate here. People who are against mainstream mantra (this is where the most funding is) face  vicious attacks and smear campaigns. The fact is today's climate models are not adequate to make firm conclusions.



That is true.    And if the poles are shifting- that has nothing to do with carbon.



My pole keeps shifting all the time.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 4:54:54 PM   
outhere69


Posts: 1302
Joined: 1/25/2011
Status: offline 		Is it that pole that rises & falls under a variety of conditions?  The one they speak of in "The Angle of The Dangle...."?

heh heh heh.

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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 6:22:37 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

It was always too late to avert catastrophe. The best we could have done would have been to delay it for a few years - maybe even a decade or two - but in the end, there was never any way to avoid "Mad Max." The oil supply would always have been finite and dwindling, and the demand would always have been increasing with population growth. The human race does not have the capacity to save itself; it's not in our DNA.



The human race has demonstrated time and again that it can and will save itself.


Really.  Have any relevant examples you'd care to offer?



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In the forest of the night
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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 6:30:53 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

Scientists have changed the story: now we are talking about climate change not global warming. Some propose we are entering into a small Ice Age. Scope of the human factor in this is still under question; Solar activity seems to be the main reason. I totally agree with the scientist that we need to save energy as much as possible. The US needs to actually redesign totally its infrastructure in order to survive as a functioning society  in long run. Huge suburban single family housing far from businesses and stores, three cars per family, lack of public transportation and so can not continue long (falling apart already).


I thought we were supposed to be having global warming.   now it is an ice age?    Come on.   Would someone make up our minds for us?


Actually, one of the worst case scenarios of warming has the N Atlantic Gyre failing and that would plunge Northwestern Europe into a local near ice age.. yaknow, france, Brit Isles, the netherlands, Scandinavia, spain, portugal. The only thing that makes that part of the world easily habitable is the Gulf Stream.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 6:53:37 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I still say if the good ol planet earth will set off a couple of super volcanoes, wipe out about 2/3's of the earth's population, start a nice ice age, making most of the first world countries a deep freeze, the planet stands a decent chance.

Activity at Yellowstone and lake Toba has increased, which may or may not mean anything.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 6:53:58 PM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

We have a hundred and fifty years of temperature data. The last fifty of those years were more precise by orders of magnitude than the first fifty. A hundred and fifty years ago today, J.C. Maxwell's unified equations for electricity and magnetism had not yet been published. Radio had not yet been invented. Transatlantic telegraphy had not yet been successful.

Actually we have much more temperature data than that. We have tree ring and ice core data going back over one hundred thousand years.


I was, of course, referring to recorded temperature readings which started about 1850, not proxy reconstructions which aren't much more than estimates.

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RE: Climate change scientists call for food rationing t... - 2/18/2011 6:57:33 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		As long as they don't have adult beverage rationing I really don't care.

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