The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink!

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AAkasha -> The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 1:46:25 PM)
In the discussions about nature vs. nurture and if women are "born dominant," there are often debates about "alpha women" and women who are leaders, enjoy control, etc. I have a lot of female peers who are professional, successful ladies because that's a big part of my social circle being a female business owner. I would say that most of these women are "alpha," and most are leaders, controlling, "wear the pants" in their romantic relationships, and many are now considered "cougars" if they are single, as they enjoy the company of younger men and are 100% really driving the sexual frequency, intimacy, etc. However, most of these women are 100% NON KINKY. These are women that subs may target as potential femdoms as they are controlling, assertive, drive the courtship process, state what they want, and want to be the leader in their relationship. But aside from unintentional "denial" of his orgasms (meaning she isn't playing chastity games, she's simply too tired from working her ass off and sex is a low priority), there's 0 kink in the bedroom. Bondage, S&M? FORGET IT! These women are not afraid to lay the rules in the bedroom, and those rules are often, "Sex when I want it and leave me alone, and whatever you do, don't whine about it." If a man were to make any suggestions for a little variety in the bedroom even in the form of light roleplay or bondage, he'd be shut down in a heartbeat as she's strong enough to say, "Hell no. Don't bring it up again, either." At the same time, I know some women who aren't particularly "alpha," like a more even-keeled relationship (balanced, collaborative, both people pretty much share the control when it comes to courting, social life, money), and they are wildly kinky and open minded. No one would label them as "alpha" though. I'm fairly "alpha" myself, but I feel that this is 100% just a reflection of my ambitious side and that I was raised to not be meek. My sister is the exact same way, but could be described as more equal in the bedroom and not one shred of kink in her; when side by side, though, outsiders would probably label us both as "alpha" in our relationships and work world with her more likely to be kinky, because she's more of an extrovert than I am when we're side by side. I think the fact that I am a sexual and/or sensual sadist is unrelated to being alpha. At the same time, I think a lot of men look for alpha women hoping they are kinky. On top of that, I think a lot of women who like to be controlling or like "super devoted" men or "faster tracks to devotion" see submissive men as somehow more prone to loyalty or doting in nature, but the women at the same time don't have a care for kinky sex at all, but do it as they feel it's part of the obligation of their role. I would be tying up, hurting, humiliating men even if I was teleported into an age and time where in relationships women were raised to be totally beta. I don't mind letting others take the lead; I could survive in a relationship with a man who was a bit of a control freak as long as he wasn't an idiot about it; however, I could not be happy longterm in a relationship where I could never express my sexual and sensual sadism or explore bondage and S&M with great frequency. Does alpha = kinky? Akasha

LaTigresse -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 1:58:28 PM)
I cannot imagine any reason why alpha would, or should, equal kinky.

Lockit -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 2:00:34 PM)
Alpha doesn't have to mean kinky. However, not being kinky or sadistic or being just a little of either or neither... doesn't mean some of the things you said could happen. Many alpha women may not deny sex or act as you have described. Many do not do the kink to get the right kind of devotion or type of relationship they think will bring what they want in other areas. I wouldn't find it an alpha personality if they did compromise in such a manner. Alpha doesn't have to mean making the rules in the bedroom or anywhere else. It could simply mean she is a leader type personality and leads in that direction with people who wish to go in that direction. That doesn't mean there isn't compromise, but it doesn't mean manipulation or force and doing something of no interest for the sake of getting what they want. I really don't care for dominant women, whatever their kink desires are or lack of them, being presented in some of the ways you have categorized them. It helps continue a few falsies.

LadyPact -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 2:09:16 PM)
No, I don't think alpha means kinky. I'm basing this on My own introduction to the lifestyle. I didn't even have an interest in what I would consider 'kink' when I had My first M/s dynamic. There was no sadism on My part whatsoever. No interest in bondage. (I'm still not all that big on it.) No chastity games. (We didn't have a sexual dynamic at all.) It was entirely authority and protocol focused. Of course, this has changed a great deal all these years later. My personality didn't change. Just My taste for certain activities became acquired.

Tantriqu -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 2:46:05 PM)
Alpha doesn't mean kinky, but I think alpha = stronger libidos. Lots of men marry betas, and are unfulfilled sexually [see do-me bottoms, ad nauseum]. I suffered in a society/class where women are beta; it was truly an awakening in university to find good men who appreciate alpha women, AND stronger libidos! I would consider ending it all if I were transported back into a society of beta females and had to conform; however, first I'd start an underground movement and then go out in a blaze of glory, and take a few misogynists with me! But I much prefer having a few dedicated worshippers while I'm alive than a whole goddess-cult afterwards.

leadership527 -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 2:56:03 PM)
No, but that title is priceless!

AAkasha -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 2:57:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tantriqu Alpha doesn't mean kinky, but I think alpha = stronger libidos. Lots of men marry betas, and are unfulfilled sexually [see do-me bottoms, ad nauseum]. I suffered in a society/class where women are beta; it was truly an awakening in university to find good men who appreciate alpha women, AND stronger libidos! I would consider ending it all if I were transported back into a society of beta females and had to conform; however, first I'd start an underground movement and then go out in a blaze of glory, and take a few misogynists with me! But I much prefer having a few dedicated worshippers while I'm alive than a whole goddess-cult afterwards. I don't know where you could make the connection between alpha and libido. A lot of the women I know that are running companies and also have a household are simply too exhausted and sex is a lower priority for them. At the same time, I know a lot of non-alpha women who are insatiable. It's not really relevant anyway. A woman can have a high sex drive and all it means is she has an appetite for intimacy and/or orgasms, she still may be as vanilla as they come. A guy who wants to be sexually dominated and have kink present in his intimacy won't be fulfilled. Akasha

AAkasha -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 2:59:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I cannot imagine any reason why alpha would, or should, equal kinky. Is "dominant woman" in the way we define it on cites like "collarme" equal to kinky? Is there any common ground between "alpha" or "dominant" and "likes kinky" -- because once you start defining relationships as kinky/non kinky people want to just call them tops and bottoms. Which is fine, but is that to say that "dominant women" are more inclined or less inclined to be kinky? It seems like in the past few years the subs trying not to be lumped into the dreaded "bottom" category are struggling to define themselves by guidelines that are designed to attract "dominant women," yet these are not specifically, "Kinky dominant women," these are just "alpha women." Akasha

Lockit -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 3:01:38 PM)
Whoa... this is taking a direction that is just bad, bad, bad.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 3:24:36 PM)
Clearly alpha does not equal kinky as you pointed out when you mentioned women who have egalitarian relationships yet are kinky. In addition, the entire concept of alpha/beta/omega/et. al. is flawed because it's based on the research of one man who studied wolves in captivity where they were forced into such small confines that their hierarchal pack structure was exaggerated to the extreme and, thus, is not an accurate representation. Alphas are not leaders and do not give orders. They simply have the most social freedom and access to the most resources within the pack.

Lockit -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 3:35:58 PM)
I am not trying to define what alpha is. Alpha means whatever it means to whomever decides what it means to them. However, I find AAkasha's description of the non kinky alpha, more like the fallacy of alpha bitch and seems to promote that alpha bitch scenario. Can someone who places themselves out there as an educator, that serves the desires of men to the point of career incentive tone down the personal objectives? Can one become alpha by serving in the first place? For myself, I know my answers... to someone else that would be something else. To be so concerned with how submissives are looking for this or that and they have difficulties because there might be a certain kind of alpha out there that isn't kinky that confuses them... kind of confuses the hell out of me... in how all that works. I cannot tell you how many men from this site have told me they don't really want kink or pain and want just a dominant woman. There is a time and a place for all things, no one is better and no one is right... or wrong in what they want. But to sound as if non kinky alpha types are doing a dis-service by being here to confuse submissive men seeking or to give an image of a woman that is alpha and not kinky as... bitch alpha... just seems wrong to me.

sirsholly -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 3:45:35 PM)
quote: In the discussions about nature vs. nurture and if women are "born dominant," there are often debates about "alpha women" and women who are leaders, enjoy control, etc. I have a lot of female peers who are professional, successful ladies because that's a big part of my social circle being a female business owner. I would say that most of these women are "alpha," and most are leaders, controlling, "wear the pants" in their romantic relationships, and many are now considered "cougars" if they are single, as they enjoy the company of younger men and are 100% really driving the sexual frequency, intimacy, etc. There are those of us who consider ourselves submissives but are no such thing in our daily lives. We are strong community leaders, go-getters, successful in our careers, and no ones idea of a shrinking violet. I do not consider myself to be an Alpha. I do not think i have a dominant personality, although i will admit to being strong. I am submissive to one and one only and that is an aspect of our relationship that is between he and i. Heaven help the one that assumes i am submissive in my day to day life. My point ... i am like most others in that there is no one label that can be applied to me. quote: However, most of these women are 100% NON KINKY. These are women that subs may target as potential femdoms as they are controlling, assertive, drive the courtship process, state what they want, and want to be the leader in their relationship. But aside from unintentional "denial" of his orgasms (meaning she isn't playing chastity games, she's simply too tired from working her ass off and sex is a low priority), there's 0 kink in the bedroom. Bondage, S&M? FORGET IT! These women are not afraid to lay the rules in the bedroom, and those rules are often, "Sex when I want it and leave me alone, and whatever you do, don't whine about it." If a man were to make any suggestions for a little variety in the bedroom even in the form of light roleplay or bondage, he'd be shut down in a heartbeat as she's strong enough to say, "Hell no. Don't bring it up again, either." Whereas you may call this type of a woman Alpha, i simply call her a bitch. It is NOT all about her and what she wants when there is a partner involved.

AAkasha -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 4:08:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: In the discussions about nature vs. nurture and if women are "born dominant," there are often debates about "alpha women" and women who are leaders, enjoy control, etc. I have a lot of female peers who are professional, successful ladies because that's a big part of my social circle being a female business owner. I would say that most of these women are "alpha," and most are leaders, controlling, "wear the pants" in their romantic relationships, and many are now considered "cougars" if they are single, as they enjoy the company of younger men and are 100% really driving the sexual frequency, intimacy, etc. There are those of us who consider ourselves submissives but are no such thing in our daily lives. We are strong community leaders, go-getters, successful in our careers, and no ones idea of a shrinking violet. I do not consider myself to be an Alpha. I do not think i have a dominant personality, although i will admit to being strong. I am submissive to one and one only and that is an aspect of our relationship that is between he and i. Heaven help the one that assumes i am submissive in my day to day life. My point ... i am like most others in that there is no one label that can be applied to me. quote: However, most of these women are 100% NON KINKY. These are women that subs may target as potential femdoms as they are controlling, assertive, drive the courtship process, state what they want, and want to be the leader in their relationship. But aside from unintentional "denial" of his orgasms (meaning she isn't playing chastity games, she's simply too tired from working her ass off and sex is a low priority), there's 0 kink in the bedroom. Bondage, S&M? FORGET IT! These women are not afraid to lay the rules in the bedroom, and those rules are often, "Sex when I want it and leave me alone, and whatever you do, don't whine about it." If a man were to make any suggestions for a little variety in the bedroom even in the form of light roleplay or bondage, he'd be shut down in a heartbeat as she's strong enough to say, "Hell no. Don't bring it up again, either." Whereas you may call this type of a woman Alpha, i simply call her a bitch. It is NOT all about her and what she wants when there is a partner involved. Maybe since "alpha" is too broad, maybe we should use terms like "female led relationships," which is a phrase I've heard coined and I think it is more encompassing of the dynamic some men seek (minus the kink aspect, which may or may not play a role and is an entirely separate issue). Akasha

LadyPact -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 4:40:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Is "dominant woman" in the way we define it on cites like "collarme" equal to kinky? No. Many Dominants are not tops and many tops aren't Dominant. quote: Is there any common ground between "alpha" or "dominant" and "likes kinky" -- because once you start defining relationships as kinky/non kinky people want to just call them tops and bottoms. Which is fine, but is that to say that "dominant women" are more inclined or less inclined to be kinky? It's not the relationship that speaks to the kink/non kink part. The activities aren't the relationship. As to the bit are they more or less inclined to be kinky, I think it's impossible to say. In My personal knowledge, I would say there are more who are inclined to be both. However, I'm basing that on the number of women that I know through the community. This doesn't allow Me to include those women who are just in charge of their relationship at home. quote: It seems like in the past few years the subs trying not to be lumped into the dreaded "bottom" category are struggling to define themselves by guidelines that are designed to attract "dominant women," yet these are not specifically, "Kinky dominant women," these are just "alpha women." Akasha The problem with this is just the opposite from the above. Not all bottoms are submissive and not all submissives would identify themselves as bottoms. In their submission, they may be required to bottom, but it might not be something that they would seek out on their own if they were not in their current dynamic.

sirsholly -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 4:48:15 PM)
quote: Many Dominants are not tops and many tops aren't Dominant. nods Dominance is not necessarily a sign of kink

seekingOwnertoo -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/20/2011 9:15:07 PM)
Wickedly, I have been reading this thread ... wondering exactly ... what is the question? Dommes have already said, Alpha does not equal Kink, and that is evident! [:D] It is also clear that a purely Alpha Woman with a busy career, does not have a lot of time to think about sex, in any form. I know this is true because I can go days and/or months without sex and kink, unless I am looking for an outlet from high pressure .... and I am a man. [;)] Now I will make an attempt to add clarity, even if I have yet to find a question. 1. I love Alpha Women. Always have always will ... 2. I am attracted to Alpha Women, in part, because an aspect of me always thinks Domme. Read "kink", and, 3. I always inevitably break up with Alpha Women, when they are not into kink. The point is, as a male submissive, ultimately some kink is REQUIRED! Yes, it can be once a month or once a year ... if life is so busy ... but hopefully at least every Saturday night. I can adjust! On the flip side. I can develop an equal realtionship, with an Alpha Female, very well. But there is no point ... without kink! It is just too unsatisfying!

sodsta -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/21/2011 9:44:41 AM)
Ok, so, there's been some back and forth about the use of the word "Alpha", but as a disclaimer I'm just stating here that for ease of typing, I'm going to stick with that term. Anyway... to my mind, alpha can, and generally does, equate to dominant, but it's whether or not dominant equates to kinky that's the issue here. Personally, I often find myself attracted to alpha/dominant-seeming women, but if there is no kink then that attraction fades pretty quickly. In all honesty, I think the alpha/dominant personality that I find myself initially attracted to is actually quite superficial, based entirely on the assumption that alpha/dominant might mean kinky. But, really... the kind of people I have actually developed meaningful kinky relationships with have been pretty relaxed and laid back outside of the kink/sex stuff, ie: not particularly alpha or dominant at all. And I think I prefer that at the end of the day. - Kye

Wheldrake -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/21/2011 11:56:20 AM)
Alpha behaviour in the workplace, alpha behaviour in personal relationships, and kinky desires strike me as three different things that could easily be independent of each other. The woman in my life has dominant and sadistic moods in the bedroom, usually approaches our relationship in a fairly egalitarian way, and is learning to be increasingly alpha-ish at work (since she's in a position that requires it). My submissive side definitely finds the authority she displays in her professional life appealing, but I have to remember that it's not going to transfer directly into authoritarian behaviour towards me. At the same time, I'm sure that in some cases dominance can be a personality trait that expresses itself in both professional and personal situations, and maybe some people who are dominant in this sense latch onto kink as a way of expressing and enjoying their general taste for power. If this is common enough, then a properly done survey would show some level of statistical correlation between being "alpha" and being "kinky". But we won't really know how strong this effect is until some enterprising psychologist collects the data.

sweetsub1957 -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/21/2011 2:03:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Does alpha = kinky? I don't think so. My sister is as uber-vanilla as they come, yet she is definitely an alpha AND would prefer to wear the pants in her relationship. She says she wants equality but, in actuality, she is a leader. Still super-nilla though. quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly There are those of us who consider ourselves submissives but are no such thing in our daily lives. We are strong community leaders, go-getters, successful in our careers, and no ones idea of a shrinking violet. I agree. I consider myself a submissive, yet I'm a supervisor-type in my daily life. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact No. Many Dominants are not tops and many tops aren't Dominant. Yes. quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha subs trying not to be lumped into the dreaded "bottom" category I know why I don't want to be. I hear people refer to bottoms as really running the show to get what they want, as opposed to submissives submitting to what the Dom/me wants. I don't want to TFTB & don't want anyone thinking I do either. I think that the qualities of being (1)Alpha in one's public life, (2)Kinkiness, and (3)being Dominant in one's relationships are all different things. One can be a leader in public w/ or w/o being alpha in personal relationships, and one can also be a Dominant w/ or w/o kink, the latter focusing more on D/s rather than the kinky activities. I think this Alpha and/or Dominant and/or Kinkiness question would be a good one for the local Discussion Group I belong to. :) I'd love to hear the answers. ~sweetsub~

PeonForHer -> RE: The "alpha female" femdom, now with less than 1% kink! (2/21/2011 7:25:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tantriqu Alpha doesn't mean kinky, but I think alpha = stronger libidos. Really? I've found the exact opposite. I've come across a few of the same species: stressed out high-flying women, uptight, with ultra-conservative outlooks . . . pillow-slobs in the bedroom. Sex is just a relaxation technique. Boring, boring, boring. Might be more of a Brit phenomenon, though. Whatever: God save me from that sort of woman. I live in dread of them. They usually seem to think that the rest of us would just love to inhabit their bleak and ultra-uptight world, too, if only we had the 'alpha' qualities that nature gave them.

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