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American Shame - 2/22/2011 7:15:57 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Unfortunate. Australia and Canada are number one and number two and the United States is last? The United States is below Greece? Wow. I guess that's what happens after eight years of George Bush and tax cuts for the rich.

American Shame

IMF Comparison of advanced countries

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/02/19/opinion/19blowch.html?ref=opinion


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RE: American Shame - 2/22/2011 7:57:03 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
Well, at least we have nowhere to go but up!

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As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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RE: American Shame - 2/22/2011 8:01:10 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		That must be the reason so many people try to get into the United States every year. Stay in Canada..

(in reply to Marini)
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RE: American Shame - 2/22/2011 8:08:33 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		What worries me living in Canada is that over a period of time with Stephen Harper and the Conservatives governing the country they will drag us down to American standards. Unfortunately our health care act will expire in a few years and it needs to be renegotiated with the provinces and the federal government. Right now the Conservatives are increasing health care expenditures 2% a year when it’s growing by 7% so underfunding it over a period of time will harm Canadian healthcare. I know Harper is very attached and interested in the United States so he is probably following activity in Wisconsin closely and developing ideas about what he can do in Canada and that really scares me.

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RE: American Shame - 2/22/2011 8:12:12 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		If he does what Scott Walker is doing in Wisconsin, your taxes might just go down.

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RE: American Shame - 2/22/2011 8:45:50 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		you mean Walker spending the money he doesnt have?

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RE: American Shame - 2/22/2011 9:37:15 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Unfortunately our health care act will expire in a few years and it needs to be renegotiated with the provinces and the federal government.


Single-payer health care in Canada has an expiration date? Sir and I were planning to eventually move to Canada. I hate the US health care system so much I feel like I'm playing russian roulette with my life simply because I was born in the wrong country. Now I find out the whole thing is temporary? Just fucking wonderful.


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Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: American Shame - 2/22/2011 11:26:25 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

you mean Walker spending the money he doesnt have?

This is a sure fire way to reduce taxes. But only if it is done by a conservative regime.

When libtards do it, it's anti-business, fiscal recklessness, inflationary government intrusion and tyranny.

All this is well known and proven beyond all doubt (to conservatives only)


Edited at the Milton Friedman School of Creative Economics

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/22/2011 11:28:32 PM >

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RE: American Shame - 2/22/2011 11:30:37 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I dont like it regardless of who is doing it.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: American Shame - 2/23/2011 5:37:45 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		the health accord is set to expire in three years, this does nto mean that healthcare will expire, more than 88% of canadians are for continuation and there would be a HUGE upset if harper tried anything stupid such as to go the US route, that would be political suicide. However I dont rule it out cos he is a tory.
Heres some more info on the 2004 health accord(which is an agreement betweeen provinces, not about wether we have healthcare or not).
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/January2011/25/c4992.html
Also history on the Canada healthcare act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Health_Act



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RE: American Shame - 2/23/2011 7:36:05 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Unfortunately our health care act will expire in a few years and it needs to be renegotiated with the provinces and the federal government.


Single-payer health care in Canada has an expiration date? Sir and I were planning to eventually move to Canada. I hate the US health care system so much I feel like I'm playing russian roulette with my life simply because I was born in the wrong country. Now I find out the whole thing is temporary? Just fucking wonderful.



I am with you but its hard to get in unless you are coming from a former commonwealth country or a commonwealth country. I've thought about just sneaking over and trying to find someone that can get me a SSN#. I think I would like Manitoba deep NDP roots.

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RE: American Shame - 2/23/2011 7:52:14 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Edited at the Milton Friedman School of Creative Economics


Yeah, Milt was self-taught yanno, he never graduated the 9th grade, and it showed, it showed.


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RE: American Shame - 2/23/2011 8:16:01 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk


.................I am with you but its hard to get in unless you are coming from a former commonwealth country or a commonwealth country. I've thought about just sneaking over and trying to find someone that can get me a SSN#. I think I would like Manitoba deep NDP roots.


NDP roots?

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RE: American Shame - 2/23/2011 8:18:55 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		www.ndp.ca

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RE: American Shame - 2/23/2011 8:54:28 AM   
EternalHoH


Posts: 791
Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If he does what Scott Walker is doing in Wisconsin, your taxes might just go down.




If taxes go down, just how does that change

Income inequality
Unemployment
Global Wellbeing
Life Expectancy
Food Insecurity
Prison Population
Student performance


Unless, of course, you count a tax cut that enables your family to eat out more often at the Sizzler, or buy and feed a bigger SUV, as better 'income equality'.

You do realize that lowering taxes on the 'job creator' class no longer creates jobs, don't you? It only results in bigger wagers being plunked down at the Wall St Casino, where the real wealth is built without the headache of a owning a business. A whiny labor force? Who needs that?


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RE: American Shame - 2/23/2011 8:59:13 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

www.ndp.ca


Thanks, DYB!

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RE: American Shame - 2/23/2011 9:30:10 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		In order to truly grow jobs, we need to increase the amount of small and med size businesses. Capital is needed to start those, and that money is at the top. Right now many at the top are being very cautious and conservative in ventures. Some kind of incentive for them to use that money here in the US is needed.

Even then the jobs we need to create, need to be higher end jobs. Looking at just employment figures in my area, it does not looks so bad, but if you look at the average income over a 10 year period, you will see higher paying jobs going out, and lower paying jobs coming in. So some small and med businesses are starting, but they are lower paying jobs.

Now let us add even more complication. If the very large corps are hit with any kind of taxes, they will just raise prices somewhere to cover the extra cost. So that is not really going to work. The larger merchandisers are able to buy in huge bulk, giving them massive influence in the wholesale markets, so they can buy at cheaper costs than a small or med size merchandiser. Now back to full circle, unemployment and lower paying jobs require us to buy for less so we must frequent those larger merchandisers to make our money go further.

So we cannot raise taxes on just the upper end of things, as they will either stop investing to make money, or pass on the cost.

To create jobs we need the upper end to invest capital. How do we give them incentive to do so?

We need higher paying jobs, which requires money to get the education, and companies willing to invest in those services and products. How do we get the people educated, and give incentives for these jobs to be created?



< Message edited by OrionTheWolf -- 2/23/2011 9:33:18 AM >

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RE: American Shame - 2/23/2011 10:47:22 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

In order to truly grow jobs, we need to increase the amount of small and med size businesses. Capital is needed to start those, and that money is at the top. Right now many at the top are being very cautious and conservative in ventures. Some kind of incentive for them to use that money here in the US is needed.


No, the money is in the banks, which are reluctant to lend except at prohibitively silly rates. Likewise, corporations are sitting on cash, waiting to see what happens. Both factors are stifling business investment.

But money at the top isn't sitting around--it's going into higher productivity, which has driven GDP growth for the past two years, and particularly here, replenishing inventories. Additionally, people are moving to other venues while the stock market is relatively flat, speculating in commodities, for example, which is contributing to rising commodity costs as demand for futures climbs.

None of that creates jobs, of course. Banks have to start lending again, allowing small business to move on expansion.

I scaled back orchard plans this year, and financed the expansion from my savings, preciously because although I have excellent credit, banks are offering only ridiculous rates for a time with historically low interest rates. They can afford it, with money so cheap. It may take rising interest rates to get them loaning again, or federal requirements on the cheap cash they're borrowing from the Fed.

The mortgage mess will continue to be a drag, precisely because the mysterious and sloppy way these were bundled/handled makes determining financial health a guessing game.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/23/2011 10:48:22 AM >

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RE: American Shame - 2/23/2011 11:33:23 AM   
EternalHoH


Posts: 791
Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

To create jobs we need the upper end to invest capital. How do we give them incentive to do so?




No incentive works.  That's the point. They have been legilatively handed easier ways, shortcuts so to speak, to build their wealth without messing around with the traditional ways of building wealth by running a business and hiring people.

When we give them tax cuts to 'spur job growth', all we are doing is giving them a free windfall to 'double down' with at the tables. 


< Message edited by EternalHoH -- 2/23/2011 11:39:16 AM >

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RE: American Shame - 2/23/2011 11:59:14 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

the health accord is set to expire in three years, this does nto mean that healthcare will expire, more than 88% of canadians are for continuation and there would be a HUGE upset if harper tried anything stupid such as to go the US route, that would be political suicide. However I dont rule it out cos he is a tory.
Heres some more info on the 2004 health accord(which is an agreement betweeen provinces, not about wether we have healthcare or not).
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/January2011/25/c4992.html
Also history on the Canada healthcare act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Health_Act




Its unsustainable as currently structured, so it seems youve got more than a political problem.

What does rhetoric like “privatization”
and “taxing the sick” mean? Our
health care system is already a mix of
public and private: Are doctors public
servants or private practitioners? People
already pay directly for some health
care services. Why not debate what
should be paid for, why and how?
Just as governments could not consistently
spend more than they collected
in revenue in the 1990s, health care
costs cannot increase indefinitely at a
faster rate than government revenue.
Also, such increases are crowding out
spending on education, the environment
and poverty reduction, key factors
in promoting a healthy population.


Janice MacKinnon
Professor
University of Saskatchewan
Saskatoon, Sask.

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to the barking of the dogfox,
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Profile   Post #: 20
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