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Happened to you? - 2/24/2011 7:43:08 PM

TanukiChan

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Joined: 3/11/2008
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An experience with a partner who was sub-curious, shall we say, that still haunts me a bit. Has this happened to any of you?

My partner (at the time) and I were engaged in a rather vanilla relationship, but she'd expressed interest and asked me if we could do a scene so she could try it out. I talked it over with her - her fantasies that sparked this, to begin with - and from there I refined the discussion to figure out what she might like, dislike, what might push her, and her hard limits, as well as picking yellow and red safewords. I wanted to be cautious with her first experience, and so chose simply to tie her hands and use a flogger that didn't hurt as much as let it's presance be known - more thuddy kind of thing, yes? In the middle of the scene, she started bawling - beyond what I'd expect from her - so I stopped to check with her.

She hadn't said so much as a 'no' or 'stop', but it had turned out that she'd forgotten her safe word. I talked to her gently and reminded her how I cared for her, and it calmed her, but I felt awful. She looked so upset that I never wanted to try with her again, even though she asked a few weeks later for another shot I just kept remembering the initial failure, how upset she'd actually been, and couldn't help but feel responsible for it. Since then, I've been questioning myself, what could I have done to prevent it?

So, any of you out there in cyberspace, have you had something similar happen?

And any of those more experienced out there, do you think I could have prevented this from happening? How?

Post #: 1

RE: Happened to you? - 2/24/2011 7:46:52 PM

LillyBoPeep

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why was she crying? was she having a fear response? something unknown and cathartic? was she bawling because she wanted you to stop but thought the only way to communicate that was through the safeword?
that's part of the problem with safewords; when people think that they totally replace normal communication. they can co-exist, but they shouldn't totally replace a simple "i need to stop."
perhaps next time, make sure she knows that. "here, have a safeword -- BUT if you need to stop, you can simply tell me, no codewords needed."

(in reply to TanukiChan)

Post #: 2

RE: Happened to you? - 2/24/2011 8:26:05 PM

TanukiChan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

why was she crying? was she having a fear response? something unknown and cathartic? was she bawling because she wanted you to stop but thought the only way to communicate that was through the safeword?
that's part of the problem with safewords; when people think that they totally replace normal communication. they can co-exist, but they shouldn't totally replace a simple "i need to stop."
perhaps next time, make sure she knows that. "here, have a safeword -- BUT if you need to stop, you can simply tell me, no codewords needed."

Oh, it was negative bawling. .__. Baaaa~
Yeah - from what I can tell she must have panicked. I think maybe you're right - maybe she thought that without the safeword I really wouldn't stop, and perhaps I could have reassured her otherwise.

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

Post #: 3

RE: Happened to you? - 2/25/2011 12:47:54 AM

MaamJay

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People often have fantasies about this ... then when it actually happens it screws with their minds ... sometimes it's because they are enjoying it and can't wrap their head around enjoying it and then they freak out and cry! That's one possible explanation. There are, of course, many possible explanations. Depends a bit too on how you were doing the flogging - some subs love continuous blows ... for others that gets way too overwhelming and they like to have little breaks or gentle touch between groups of blows.

I think debriefing a few days later might have helped, the reassurance at the time was great, but giving her a few days to process things and then talking about it again would have been good. That's when you could find out the details of what happened or what went 'wrong'. I can understand your reluctance those few weeks later when she wanted to give it another shot ... that took courage on her part though, and you didn't quite measure up with the same courage there ... I would have done so but done something a bit different, more progressive. Maybe a bare hand spanking ... with a gentle warm up and lots of caressing of the ass in between spanks ... something between erotic and pain ... to see how she handled that. And asking her often how she was feeling, don't wait for her to volunteer it (a lot of experienced subs are crap at using safewords, let alone a newbie!).

A technique I have found useful in getting a sub to call yellow is to explain I will gradually intensify the stimulus until they do! I expect to hear it. I want to hear it. But I don't want to hear red (unless something totally unexpected happens) because that means they haven't said yellow when they should! I have found this very useful with male subs who have this macho hangup about not safewording ... once I see evidence from their face and body that they are close to yellow and I suspect they are trying not to call it, I directly ask them "was that yellow? sure? I can hit harder you know ..." and usually they come out with "yes. YELLOW!" At which point I praise lavishly, back off the intensity, or change to another activity.

I hope this helps a bit OP, unexpected reactions do occur (Master had to cope with my laughing hysterically on my way into subspace ... He's used to that now, and one time i had a damn good cathartic cry too which rather rattled Him until i stopped sobbing enough to tell Him it was fine and all good!). Good luck!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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Post #: 4

RE: Happened to you? - 2/25/2011 1:21:17 AM

TanukiChan

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That is a wonderful idea. I'm glad cybespace exists, if only for the ability to contact and question those with more experience than my own. : )
Even when I sub, I'm never very forthcoming with my own safewords. Odds are many individuals, male and female, need to be guided through accepting that using your safeword isn't a sign of weakness or a passive-agressive insult to one's Dom/me. I like the method you suggested

(in reply to MaamJay)

Post #: 5

RE: Happened to you? - 2/25/2011 2:02:10 AM

MstrssScarlet

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If I'm playing with someone for the first time- say, at an event- I try my best to explain everything ahead of time. BUT I find that the newer they are, the less likely they are to use those safewords we talked about. This applies double to males.
Rather like MaamJay, I watch their reactions carefullly and let them know when I'm going to increase the blows. I watch their reaction when I say I'm going to increase them and if they look a little uncertain, I will ask them again, perhaps stopping what I'm doing to make sure I'm getting through.
I always make it clear from the beginning that it's not a contest to see how much they can take. Everyone is different and the purpose is to have a good time, and that's all. I also explain that the people they see around them may have taken years to get to the point where they're seeing them now.
SO FAR I've never had anyone cry during a session.
Mistress Scarlet

_____________________________

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(in reply to TanukiChan)

Post #: 6

RE: Happened to you? - 2/25/2011 4:14:09 AM

Buzzzz

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I thimk you should talk to her about it, or even better, have her read what you wrote.She will see/know that you care about her and it was "a mistake". Maybe it wasn't a mistake.. Our lifestyle can be very overwhelming at 1st and lots of emotions or past triggers can show up at anytime.. For example, I played with a friend of mine outdoor at a "kinky camping" event . she was on my massage table in the middle of the woods. I took a pair of real handcuffs and put them on her and she was gone to subspace.. The real handcuffs trigger something like she had nowhere to go or something of that nature and she went (I was a good experience).. What I am trying to get to is you never know what can happen/react.

I definitly would talk to her about it in details and try to figure out "what happened" (good or bad).

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(in reply to MstrssScarlet)

Post #: 7

RE: Happened to you? - 2/25/2011 9:25:10 AM

angelikaJ

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One thing my Master did with me in our initial explorations together was in the midst of play he would ask me if I remembered my safe words.

Ours are not simply yellow or red but "yellow light" and "red light".

I think it was a good method for reinforcing both his wanting me to use them should the need arise and making certain I was secure in what they were.

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(in reply to TanukiChan)

Post #: 8

RE: Happened to you? - 2/25/2011 10:05:20 AM

windchymes

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This is a quote from an article on massage therapy:

A phenomenon called emotional release sometimes happens during a massage session. Unexpressed emotions that are held in the body may come to the surface when receiving massage therapy.

How this happens is much the same as reaching out to a friend who is hurting and you touch their hand or shoulder. A tear might come quite involuntarily. It just happens… and needs to be released. The right circumstance and the right person will elicit a release at anytime in our lives.

As it says, and as they taught us in the program, emotional releases can just "happen", it doesn't mean she was frightened or had any negative feelings towards what you were doing. Or maybe she did, but I just wanted to present another viewpoint. But my point is, be it being whipped or being massaged, the deep touch can trigger the release of pent-up emotions. It's not necessarily due to negative feelings.

< Message edited by windchymes -- 2/25/2011 10:09:09 AM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Happened to you? - 2/25/2011 11:01:06 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

A phenomenon called emotional release sometimes happens during a massage session. Unexpressed emotions that are held in the body may come to the surface when receiving massage therapy.

This can happen during yoga as well. I've never observed it in classes at gyms, but the Kripalu Center for Yoga and Health stocks boxes of Kleenex in every corner.

*****

I LOVE this!

quote:

A technique I have found useful in getting a sub to call yellow is to explain I will gradually intensify the stimulus until they do! I expect to hear it. I want to hear it. But I don't want to hear red (unless something totally unexpected happens) because that means they haven't said yellow when they should! I have found this very useful with male subs who have this macho hangup about not safewording ... once I see evidence from their face and body that they are close to yellow and I suspect they are trying not to call it, I directly ask them "was that yellow? sure? I can hit harder you know ..." and usually they come out with "yes. YELLOW!" At which point I praise lavishly, back off the intensity, or change to another activity.

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 10

RE: Happened to you? - 2/26/2011 5:40:05 AM

DesFIP

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The first time he tried a spanking, it was just an exploration with him asking me for feedback several times. No power transfer here, no expectation that the onus was on me to stop things. Just him asking me how I was doing and me feeling free to ask to try a harder one and so on.

When you tell someone you're not going to stop unless they ask for it, then the responsibility for the scene lies with them and not with the top. It's hard to relax and enjoy yourself when you have to stay on top of things and remember things. Too much pressure. Much better to try something and stop along the way to discuss how it feels.

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Post #: 11

RE: Happened to you? - 2/26/2011 5:55:50 AM

sinandhoney

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From: Lincoln, NE
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I think for first times the pace and responsibility lays heavily with the Dom. You have to go slowly and check in frequently. It's very hard to process as a sub what is happening to you when its all new. There is a danger of pushing yourself to far in order to please. There is so much programing to over come from online learning and ideas of what a "proper" sub should be or do. I stop and check in frequently, caressing when I know I've been amping up the pain sometimes that little niceness or reassurance is all that is needed to edge them back down to where they are okay. Asking them frequently where they are, which can be annoying when your more experienced, is a good idea. If she's asking to try again then she likely didn't get near as freaked as you did and has had time to process her reactions. I would take what you learned from the last and rework the scene to be more pleasing for you both. Don't over doubt yourself, many of us have had failed scenes for one reason or another, learn from it.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 12

RE: Happened to you? - 2/26/2011 8:30:00 AM

DarkSteven

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TanukiChan, I read your profile and you identify as a sub. You being a first time Top, working with a first time bottom - there was a good chance that there might be a floof.

What happened to you is not that uncommon. Just make sure that you keep in touch with her and convey the impression that everything is okay.

She's got a stewpot of emotions right now. She may feel like she's been looking forward to this and it didn't work out right, that she failed you, that you failed her, that she'll never be able to play again, etc. She likely was also very turned on for a great part of the play. She's confused.

Just get her to understand that it's all okay. If you do play with her again, do it for bursts of several minutes, after which you check in with her, at least until she (and you) feel more comfortable.

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Post #: 13

RE: Happened to you? - 2/26/2011 4:47:35 PM

DesFIP

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I also wondered if part of it is that the op isn't a dominant and that the necessary sub/dom emotional interplay wasn't there.

But I'm curious, since she isn't a switch, why she wanted to do this. Because if it was in the hope the other person would want to be on top next time, that might have been sensed and be part of the problem.

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Post #: 14

RE: Happened to you? - 2/26/2011 4:59:23 PM

Tantriqu

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For the first bondage with a lover, I bind one hand and put the other in a strap or loop that he can easily escape from or have to hang onto. If that goes well for both of us, the next time I bind one hand again, one strap/loop for the other, and both feet. The next time, all are bound.

Even with an experienced sub, I would never bind both hands the first time, ESPECIALLY with a newbie, until I was comfortable with his response and his ability to communicate during and afterwards, and he with my ability to gauge him. There's plenty of time to escalate.

(in reply to DesFIP)

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RE: Happened to you? - 2/26/2011 5:05:07 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

For the first bondage with a lover, I bind one hand and put the other in a strap or loop that he can easily escape from or have to hang onto. If that goes well for both of us, the next time I bind one hand again, one strap/loop for the other, and both feet. The next time, all are bound.

Even with an experienced sub, I would never bind both hands the first time, ESPECIALLY with a newbie, until I was comfortable with his response and his ability to communicate during and afterwards, and he with my ability to gauge him. There's plenty of time to escalate.

Tell them to hold one wrist with the other hand.
They therefore bind themselves.

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Post #: 16

RE: Happened to you? - 2/27/2011 9:34:03 AM

Phoenixpower

Posts: 8098
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
When you tell someone you're not going to stop unless they ask for it, then the responsibility for the scene lies with them and not with the top. It's hard to relax and enjoy yourself when you have to stay on top of things and remember things. Too much pressure. Much better to try something and stop along the way to discuss how it feels.

well said

When I had my very first bdsm experience with C-Dom I had not expected that to happen at all...I liked him, I was looking forward to spend time with him and was rather amazed how suddenly I was tied up...whilst I felt safe with him and not annoyed about that fact I was glad that he did not use any tools during that first event and instead simply enjoyed to do other stuff to me which wasnt from the sadistic side and gave me the experience, sort of, how it is to be under his control, where I can't do much...

and yes, it happened exactly what Steven said:

quote:

She's got a stewpot of emotions right now. She may feel like she's been looking forward to this and it didn't work out right, that she failed you, that you failed her, that she'll never be able to play again, etc. She likely was also very turned on for a great part of the play. She's confused.

I have spent a heck of a lot of time afterwards to reflect on that experience and did some serious thinking if I want to continue with him or not. What made me go forward with him at that time, was the fact that he respected my opinion where I said at that time that I am not into pain...I valued it a lot that he respected that.

So whilst the situation was slightly different, as I hadn't asked him for that but instead he introduced me to it unexpectedly, it was good, that he took a step back at first. For the next meeting he then went a few steps up and I knew before hand what is going to happen, which included caning. I was very nervous about it, but due to him making me aware of it beforehand, again, it strengthened my trust to him. So he pushed every time a step or a few steps further, but never came with any unexpected surprises...he knew how to enable me to trust him that I will be safe with him which then in return allowed me to experience more with him.

I have my serious doubts that I would have met him again, if he would have used any of his sadistic tools on the first occassion...as it simply can involve a lot confusion when you gain your first experiences in that respect.

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Post #: 17

RE: Happened to you? - 2/27/2011 9:48:30 AM

Phoenixpower

Posts: 8098
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
Even with an experienced sub, I would never bind both hands the first time, ESPECIALLY with a newbie, until I was comfortable with his response and his ability to communicate during and afterwards, and he with my ability to gauge him. There's plenty of time to escalate.

In that respect I have to add that at times even subs don't necessarily know themselves that they can't handle bondage.

E.g. when I was tied up like a parcel the first (and last) time in 2005 I had no idea whatsoever that I have the healthcondition fibromyalgia....I mean, I knew certain symptoms from it but was still far away from the diagnosis and the name for it.

I thought I will be fine with bondage, had seen no issue whatsoever but once I had a certain amount of ropes wrapped around me my condition made itself heard big time and I needed to get out of that FAST as I simply felt like being in fire.

He did not understand why I was causing as much a fuss as I did, neither did I at that time (I do know now, since I know more about that condition) but the pain I was in afterwards lasted for several hours as some areas of my muscles just did not stop being stiff.

So its certainly wise to be careful, even more in the beginning, as apart from the ability to handle it emotionally also unknown health issues can come to light.

_____________________________

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The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

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Post #: 18

RE: Happened to you? - 2/27/2011 10:41:40 AM

Tantriqu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
For the first bondage with a lover, I bind one hand and put the other in a strap or loop that he can easily escape from or have to hang onto. If that goes well for both of us, the next time I bind one hand again, one strap/loop for the other, and both feet. The next time, all are bound.
Even with an experienced sub, I would never bind both hands the first time, ESPECIALLY with a newbie, until I was comfortable with his response and his ability to communicate during and afterwards, and he with my ability to gauge him. There's plenty of time to escalate.

Tell them to hold one wrist with the other hand.
They therefore bind themselves.

Nope. Sounds sexy, but I would never trust anyone, especially a newb, knows how to tie a quick release, esp. with one hand.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 19

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