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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 3/13/2011 9:16:41 AM   
TotalDiscipline


Posts: 225
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Don't get too excited there dude, it was just a typo. Nothing more, nothing less.




just takes time..don't give up

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Love is the law, love under will.

shorten your answers to the essence

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 3/13/2011 9:52:20 AM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline 		I think dominance and leadership are interrelated, but not the same things. Dominance is more a personality trait, leadership more a skill set. For example, I would consider myself in most settings as a naturally dominant personality. But it took me years to learn the leadership skills of delegating and consensus building.

A domineering person may very well have dominant traits to their personality, but having a natural dominant streak does not make one a GOOD dominant. A good dominant has  leadership skills along with enough mastery of his/her own ego that people desire to be led my them. This is true in the dungeon or the meeting room or in an emergency situation. I don't see these traits or abilities as being so either/or in term of separating them out of a BDSM setting.

Personally, I prefer those who can lead by example, by quiet deliberate determination, as opposed to the uber control freak type of dominant. That's just what works for me, YMMV.

Since I switch, I am obviously not dominant in all aspects of my personality or aspects of my life. This doesn't mean I can't be an excellent leader in certain settings, like work.

I have often wanted to point out that, in my opinion, if someone says they are a dominant, then they are, or they want to be. They just might not be a GOOD one. And I think being a good one can be learned, to a certain extent. Just like you can learn to be a better submissive.

I know my own dominance and submission have evolved a great deal over the years.


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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 6/17/2011 7:03:10 PM   
rawtape


Posts: 105
Joined: 10/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

Do you think Dominance and leadership come together, or do you think you can excel at one without excelling at the other? Do you think these are learned skills? What do you think of the concept of a natural leader/natural Dominant? Are leadership skills important to your brand of Dominance? How do these things intertwine and work for you in your relationships/life?



My impression is that people are born with certain dominant or submissive propensities. This doesn't mean that they'll necessarily be visibly dominant or submissive in their interactions with others, but that cultural experiences can enhance or emphasize such traits. I think, in my case and that of some of my peers, growing up in the culture we did (class-conscious society, much less egalitarian than it is nowadays) certainly played a role in our D/s development.

Now I think we need to define leadership clearly. Do you consider it different from dominance? As in, is there more to it than simply being able to get people to follow one... to, in fact, being able to get one or more people to achieve a certain goal? If so, then I do think leadership is a different skillset. That's not to suggest that being a dominant cannot benefit this skillset. But sometimes it can also get in the way.

In my field, and among my professional peers (scientists who run their own labs), one can certainly find people who exhibit excellent leadership (and management skills) without coming across as dominant. And yes, one finds the converse too, individuals who are naturally dominant but unable to lead their labs or projects successfully. There are, however, some new programs designed to inculcate leadership and management skills in new scientists, and their efficacy leads me to believe that leadership, at least, is a skillset that can be taught.

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 6/17/2011 7:24:33 PM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		one of my threads has been necro'd! i've arrived! seriously, the mods are likely to tell you that if a thread is more than 3 months old, they'd rather you start a new one. so i'm hesitant to continue posting here (but i guess if it's not locked tomorrow, then that might mean it's okay).

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 6/17/2011 7:27:53 PM   
VideoAdminRho


Posts: 2055
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		This one is very close to 3 months and a general subject, so it is fine if people wish to continue the discussion.

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 6/17/2011 8:40:07 PM   
analyticalmaster


Posts: 39
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Like most things in life, there are many shades of gray here.  Being dominant is who I am for example, while I can mimic submissive behavior enough to survive in a workplace, ie I can keep my trap shut when I really want to tell someone to sit on it and spin, mostly.  Being dominant is not about being the biggest asshole on the block, being dominant is the awareness that you are complete within yourself.  That is you do not need anyone's approval to be content.  Being dominant with another person is more a matter of chemistry, it is the response that is unique to each of us.  Being dominant doesn't mean any particular person (submissive) will see me as dominant to them, only those few who for some unknown combination of factors; looks, command presence, tone, smell, verbiage or whatever that will bond a sub to me in such a way she really has little choice.  Another definition might simply be I know I am dominant because I will be damned first before I would surrender to anyone.  In any normal sense, that is, I am sure I am smart enough to back down if someone points a .45 at my head and insists, but that is the level it would take.  I didn't do so hot when I was in the military for just those reasons.

Leadership, while related is somewhat different, anyone can be trained to lead in specific areas, or at least in simplistic ones.  That is in most work related activities or as a part of their family life.  Most people follow, even piss poor leaders, simply because they do not wish to lead themselves or are in a power structure that makes leading impossible for them.   Leadership in a combat situation is totally different which is why a good leader often has nothing going for him but command presence, it is a quality that almost hypnotizes the weak minded to follow someone into hell if needed.   A good Dom will be a leader, that sometimes means he delegates to someone better qualified for a particular task, good leaders are usually have no problem with someone else being better than themselves at something, bad leaders usually do have a problem with it. 

The problem with our way of life is that we use the term Dom for too many things,  A Dom who is really just a Top may not be worth a shit as a leader, but he may be a fantastic Top, able to bring a bottom to subspace with precision and great control.  A Dom who runs a family, may not be a fantastic Top but be a great and dominant leader.  They are not the same things, but we continue to try and make them that way.      

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 6/17/2011 8:44:28 PM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		Ah ha -- thanks for the info, VAR =)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawtape

That's not to suggest that being a dominant cannot benefit this skillset. But sometimes it can also get in the way.


that's an interesting idea, but i can agree with it. these types of people i tend to just refer to as being demanding. they want their way, but they're too self-absorbed (perhaps) to be able to work with other people in an effective way, like a leader typically would.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawtape
In my field, and among my professional peers (scientists who run their own labs), one can certainly find people who exhibit excellent leadership (and management skills) without coming across as dominant. And yes, one finds the converse too, individuals who are naturally dominant but unable to lead their labs or projects successfully.


and yeah, i agree there; i think earlier it's been mentioned that sometimes submissives makes great leaders for social groups and committees. a lot of times they're very organized and can delegate very well, while not wanting to be dominant in their personal relationships.
and of course there are people who work high-powered jobs in the public sphere while submitting in the private sphere.
so i don't think that leadership is inherently tied to dominance, but i think dominance functions better with leadership.  and not in a sense that this person is also willing to lead people outside of the relationship, either; i just think that a good leader is someone who can inspire the followers to believe in the goal, whatever that is.


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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 6/17/2011 9:36:34 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

Do you think Dominance and leadership come together...


In two words... FUCK NO!!!

quote:


...or do you think you can excel at one without excelling at the other


For WIITWD, without both, you have/offer nothing... so if one is missing, it's a waste of time -- for an Ownership dynamic, anyway.


quote:


Do you think these are learned skills?


What many THINK of with regard to BDSM (cuffs, floggers, bondage, rope, etc.), yes those can be "learned"... but a person merely barking orders or who's learned to wield a whip, does not an Owner make.

quote:


What do you think of the concept of a natural leader/natural Dominant?


Personally, I've always thought this article explained it best ---> http://domsubfriends.com/voye/articles/105/

quote:


Are leadership skills important to your brand of Dominance?


Not only "important", but a must!!!

quote:


How do these things intertwine and work for you in your relationships/life?


It provides an umbrella of sorts... one which inpsires security, fulfillment, respect, love, freedom, fulfillment, and ultimately... happiness.





< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 6/17/2011 10:15:14 PM >

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 6/18/2011 7:57:47 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Do you think Dominance and leadership come together
I think that leadership is a deep set of skills which can be used to greatly increase the effectiveness of a socially dominant personality. I don't think it has anything to do with sexual dominance. But yeah, if you're trying to get someone to follow you, then that is what leadership skills are all about.

In other words, I agree with the assessment that you are born with a set of personality traits which are conducive to leadership. Actually making something of them though requires years of effort, training and mentorship. Probably with the right set of base traits you could do moderately well with little or no training in an undemanding situation, but to be excellent there's no free ride.

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 6/18/2011 8:24:13 AM >

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 6/19/2011 9:34:00 AM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline 		It really comes down in how you define dominance.

If you define it as something encapsulated into short, sexually based sessions involving kink, then, no, leadership skills aren't important.

However, if you define it the sense of the possesion of authority in relationship, then yes, it's very important.

People like to seperate these into two different things, one being kink and the other being a vanilla concept. I don't really get that.

After all, what is leadership? I tend to define it as a set of skills, developed over time and with experience, that are used to properly manage and maintain authority based relationships, typically in modern times, in the dynamic of a boss/subordinate. How is that really any different then the essence of a D/S relationship?

Yes, granted, as a project leader, I don't normally walk another developer around the office naked and wearing a leash. But such an act is nothing more than a symbol, a single action that a lover and I engage in as a way to express our desires for one another. It's not the foundation of an authority based relationship and therefore, secondary to it's success.

As such, I have said this many times when I used to post here under my old handle and will continue to say it again. New dominants who want an authority based relationship would be a lot better off if they forgot about the kink for awhile and focused on the skill sets necessary to actually have the relationship.


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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 6/19/2011 10:30:37 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		great first post DecadentDesire. =) i agree with you, totally. ^_^

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 6/19/2011 2:35:39 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero


The skill sets involved in BDSM are typically tactile. Those involved in leadership are typically psychological.


I'm not sure that this is generally true in the context of BDSM at all. Sure there are some BDSM riffs that are very tactile, but I can think of plenty where the emphasis is the psychological.

To the OP...

I agree with LadyP and LaT.

There are plenty of dominant people who lack leadership skills (fuck - entire sections of this board are crammed with them!), but personally I'd aspire to dominate through leadership.

LadyP also makes the crucial point that a person can be dominant, or a leader, or both, in one aspect of their lives, and a submissive in others.

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 6/19/2011 6:20:25 PM   
Fetters4U


Posts: 393
Joined: 5/25/2011
Status: offline 		An effective leader is an alpha that can lead other alphas. That leader must first and foremost be in control of himself. He must know when to win and when to lose, when to lead and when to follow. A leader must also, by definition, have an objective. You cannot lead unless you are going somewhere. One necessary tactic in any leader's arsenal is the ability to dominate a subordinate.

A dominant normally deals with submissive personalities that want to obey. He does not need an objective; he just needs to be in charge. There is usually no reason for a lifestyle dominant to have the skill to manage other alphas. Some can, others make a huge mess of things.

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 6/20/2011 8:43:04 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire
It really comes down in how you define dominance.

Always this. I've got at least 3 wildly different definitions of it that people use.

New dominants who want an authority based relationship would be a lot better off if they forgot about the kink for awhile and focused on the skill sets necessary to actually have the relationship.
Of course you are right and of course nobody will listen. Doms are BORN doms didn't you know? Subs are born subs. Everyone is a perfect little snowflake with no effort on their part and the relationship failures have to do with having fake partners.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 6/20/2011 11:24:08 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

Do you think Dominance and leadership come together, or do you think you can excel at one without excelling at the other? Do you think these are learned skills? What do you think of the concept of a natural leader/natural Dominant? Are leadership skills important to your brand of Dominance? How do these things intertwine and work for you in your relationships/life?



Hi Necro-girl 

I only skimmed the other responses, but I'm more inclined to think anyone can dominate a willing participant, in that they can tell the subject what to do and the subject does it.  Leading, however, requires skills such as having a clear vision, developing and sustaining motivation, the ability to understand the mindset of others and how to guide them to where they want them to go - mentally, emotionally and physically.




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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 6/21/2011 7:26:41 PM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
Status: offline 		If ya cant run with the big dogs...stay on the porch...

Some men/women are natural born leaders...

The dominat ones usually aren`t on the...porch -L-

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Profile   Post #: 36
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