RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (Full Version)

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luckydawg -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 1:12:08 PM)

yeah, but let him say what he meant.

and I think the strategy I outlined would fall under a "tactic" in number 10.

10. The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.


IF you were going into a mass meeting, and you set up what I described ahead of time, it would put a lot of pressure on the opposition.






luckydawg -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 1:13:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I give up. You guys sound like a bunch of hoods in "The Usual Suspects" scaring each other with ghost stories about Keyser Soze. The comedic value of this thread is no longer enough to warrant the waste of time. Have fun, and be sure and let the rest of us know if you decide that Saul Alinsky is really the anti-christ and he's actually alive and living in the basement of the White House. 



Which is of course number 5 on the list



5. Ridicule is man's most potent weapon.




TheHeretic -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 1:16:52 PM)

Well now it's, "what??!?!?!" to you, Panda. I'm wondering about something. You said you worked with organizations where he was known and admired, if given the latitude and grains of salt we provide to mad scientists we like, but have you brushed up on "Rules for Radicals?"





popeye1250 -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 1:25:01 PM)

In the old days Alinsky would be called, "a liar."




rulemylife -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 1:39:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

In the old days Alinsky would be called, "a liar."


That's amazing.

You've heard of Alinsky but don't know who Glenn Beck is.




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 1:40:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Well now it's, "what??!?!?!" to you, Panda. I'm wondering about something. You said you worked with organizations where he was known and admired, if given the latitude and grains of salt we provide to mad scientists we like, but have you brushed up on "Rules for Radicals?"




I'm familiar with them, and - like every other organizer I ever met - I find them on the whole to be as silly, as irrelevant, and as distasteful as I do this paranoid obsession you people have with them.

I've already tried to tell you this a couple of times, but you don't seem to care, so why you'd ask again is a mystery to me. It seems pretty clear you've already decided what opinion you want to have of Alinsky and his supposed diabolical influence on all levels of American government, and aren't interested in anything that might jeopardize that misconception. So just go ahead and continue to think what you want to think.




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 1:42:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

In the old days Alinsky would be called, "a liar."


How would you know? You don't know shit about Alinsky except what you've read in these ghost story threads, which is to say you don't know shit about Alinsky. In the old days, that would be called "ignorant."




luckydawg -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 3:07:45 PM)

yep, no organizer has ever given Alinsky any credit. They all consider him irrelevant and distastefull.....




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 3:15:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

yep, no organizer has ever given Alinsky any credit. They all consider him irrelevant and distastefull.....



Is English not your first language? Is that part of the problem? Or is it simply that you're not smart enough to understand what people are saying? I've always been curious to know what it is with you.




luckydawg -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 3:54:00 PM)

13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.





popeye1250 -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 4:14:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

In the old days Alinsky would be called, "a liar."


That's amazing.

You've heard of Alinsky but don't know who Glenn Beck is.




Rule, I do now and wouldn't you agree that they're both fuckin' liars?




tazzygirl -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 9:37:22 PM)

Read it for yourself.

http://www.illinoisloop.org/dz_delphi00.html




luckydawg -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 9:44:13 PM)

Thanks Tazz, so it was exactly what I thought it was.

"his first encounter with a facilitated school meeting using Delphi/Alinsky techniques to cultivate a desired conclusion."


You don't have a problem with the govenrment using tactics like that to negate the use of Public input?

Really?





luckydawg -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 9:47:19 PM)

Basically the idea goes something like this: An organization (such as a school district) has already decided what it is going to do, but it wants to avoid the appearance that it has acted without public approval. So it schedules a public meeting which is advertised as being held for the purpose of soliciting community input. In fact the organization has no desire to solicit opinions; rather the real intent of the meeting is to give the community the impression that input was solicited.

The meeting goes like this: Everyone arrives and sits down. After an introductory talk, audience members are told that they are going to be divided into N groups (N might be any number depending upon the audience size). So everyone is asked to count off from 1 to N going up and down the seated rows. Each person is then directed into a group whose name is the same as the number that he or she counted off. So for example, if you counted "2" when the count came around to you, then you go to Group 2. There are, of course, N group leaders who then carefully direct the discussion of each group. Each group leader controls the format and, to a great degree, the content of each group's discussion.

Toward the end, group members are asked for inputs, which are then listed on a big sheet of paper by the group leader. At the end of the meeting, everyone reassembles. The sheets from all the groups are posted around the room and each group leader reads the list of suggestions that are on his list. Unpopular or unusual inputs are glossed over and downplayed, while the majority of attention is focused on those ideas that are generic enough that almost everyone would agree to them. At the end a summary is delivered and everyone goes home.

The purpose of the countoff is to split up anyone who came in together, so that each of the N groups will most likely consist entirely of people who have never met, and almost certainly will not contain any two or more like-minded individuals who may have come in together. Once everyone is split up in this manner, the group leaders can then easily control the group conversations because dissenting or outspoken individuals are generally alone in each group, and such people quickly discover that they have little or no support from other group members.


It is a radical perversion of the spirit of Democracy

.




tazzygirl -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/27/2011 10:12:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Thanks Tazz, so it was exactly what I thought it was.

"his first encounter with a facilitated school meeting using Delphi/Alinsky techniques to cultivate a desired conclusion."


You don't have a problem with the govenrment using tactics like that to negate the use of Public input?

Really?




Before you even try and get snarky with me on this topic, I freely admit I dont know much about it, which is why Rich, in part, started this thread. My posts here are just to try and gain some understanding, not to be belittled in the process of learning.

So, if snark is on your agenda, keep it to yourself.

SOME of us are trying to have an intelectual discussion.




luckydawg -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/28/2011 12:02:46 AM)

Tazz, you stated,

" As I told Rich in another thread, what I am reading doesnt sound like an evil, twisted plot... "



Having your statements challenged is part of an intellectual conversation.

Does that sound like a legitimate public meeting?

Or a perversion of the process?






tazzygirl -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/28/2011 4:49:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Thanks Tazz, so it was exactly what I thought it was.

"his first encounter with a facilitated school meeting using Delphi/Alinsky techniques to cultivate a desired conclusion."


You don't have a problem with the govenrment using tactics like that to negate the use of Public input?

Really?




You, in this post, were assuming it was something I was doing deliberately.

Challenging is one thing... baiting, as you were attempting to do.. is another.




tazzygirl -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/28/2011 5:00:10 AM)

quote:

Does that sound like a legitimate public meeting?

Or a perversion of the process?


Why would it not be a legitimate public meeting?

Why is Delphi an approved method and Alinsky not?

Why did the author feel he upset?

The obvious intent of the counting-off, I realized later, was to break up groups of friends who might have sat down together, thus virtually ensuring that each "facilitated" group would consist almost entirely of people who had never met.

Isnt this part of the Delphi method... just a smaller scale? I mean, if people coming in are friends, then utilizing the Delphi method, which the author seems to approve of, would be useless, no?




rulemylife -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/28/2011 5:02:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

In the old days Alinsky would be called, "a liar."


That's amazing.

You've heard of Alinsky but don't know who Glenn Beck is.




Rule, I do now and wouldn't you agree that they're both fuckin' liars?


I don't know.

I still don't know much about Alinsky.

I don't know whether my education was lacking or whether this guy was just dredged up in the last few years by people like Beck to create controversy.






TheHeretic -> RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard (2/28/2011 6:31:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I still don't know much about Alinsky.

I don't know whether my education was lacking or whether this guy was just dredged up in the last few years by people like Beck to create controversy.



For the first, maybe read the thread, and the links that come in to it.

For the second, no reason it can't be both.




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