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the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 4:49:27 AM

texasbutterfly

Posts: 84
Joined: 4/17/2006
Status: offline

i am new to the boards and new to the lifestyle, so first off i apologize if i am reasking a question that has been beat into the ground. i have been given some good advice on this site about being true to myself and knowing myself.... however, i am still trying to figure out who that is.

what i am confused about is this. as a submissive/slave i have a really hard time telling a dom/domme no. i have a really hard time saying don't do this or don't do that. yet, so many of the other submissive/slave profiles do exactly that.

adding to the problem is the fact that i live out in the middle of nowhere. i cannot get any real time experience, attend community gatherings and such without driving hours and hours to get there.

i have found a Master to train me online and that is going very well. i am getting to explore and learn about myself.

i know many of you will shake your head when i get around to asking this, but what do you consider the difference is between a submissive/slave and a doormat. if my Master tells me to do something, i am going to do it...whether i want to or not. i don't know my limits so it is hard to say what they are.

i know this thread does not make any sense and is not well thought out. does anybody have any advice?

Post #: 1

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 4:52:34 AM

kittensmailbox

Posts: 744
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Youngstown, Ohio
Status: offline

i suggest you get the book Screw The Roses, Give me the thorns... i feel that it is a great place to start....

_____________________________

~softly smiles

~lowers her eyes in respect~

~kitten

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 2

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 5:03:47 AM

sweetbbwsub31

Posts: 331
Joined: 3/22/2006
Status: offline

In my opinion, BDSM is a very individual thing. As a sub, i started out not knowing what i wanted but knowing something was missing and i needed to be submissive. i found my nitch after a couple of years of exploring. It takes time.

Read a lot, meet friends in the lifestyle, and be very cautious. Coming here was a good place to begin.

Welcome,

sub tara

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 3

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 5:08:38 AM

texasbutterfly

Posts: 84
Joined: 4/17/2006
Status: offline

thanks for the book...im heading off to amazon.com now.

(in reply to kittensmailbox)

Post #: 4

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 5:11:35 AM

texasbutterfly

Posts: 84
Joined: 4/17/2006
Status: offline

thank you for the response sub tara. patience is something i am having to work on. it is definitely not my strongest asset. the closest communities i have found range from 3 hours to 6 hours away. i haven't located anything even remotely bdsm locally. i can't be the only fish out of water here can i? **grin**

(in reply to sweetbbwsub31)

Post #: 5

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 5:13:18 AM

fullofgrace

Posts: 395
Joined: 3/24/2006
From: fl, usa
Status: offline

i suggest you work with your trainer to explore different activities and perhaps see where your limits lie. to me it is unsafe to be "no limits" with someone unless you have complete trust with them, which usually comes over cultivating a D/s relationship over some time. it's easiest to make yourself recognize your own limits when you have a dominant who encourages you to - my Dominant, at first, had to coax me into telling Him when i didn't truly like an activity. once i was able to recognize my limits, i was more comfortable letting go of them in my trust of Him. i definitely understand what you mean by wanting to do everything, whether you like it or not - it's not that this is unhealthy, but imho there is a time and place for it and it's better to start out with limits and remove them later. to me, usually the limits i start out with are things that would be psychologically harmful to me (such as caging or knife play) or things that i personally really, really, really feel squicky about doing but might eventually be okay with (such as scat or watersports).. take into consideration the effects of certain activities on your psyche, too, when exploring your limits. knife play sent and sometimes still sends me into shaking, flashbacks, and terror, but i am to the point now where i trust Him with my well-being so much that i can stand to do it if He requires it of me, because He requires it of me. there's also just plain physical limits - kneeling is really hard on my arthritis, certain positions exacerbate my back problem, so it's something i started out with as a limit but now trust Him to require of me while taking into account my physical well-being. so limits aren't necessarily just things you don't like to do.

to me, the difference between a submissive/slave and a doormat is that in my experience, dominants/masters don't wish to have a doormat. living, breathing human beings have faults and limits, but also joys and skills. imho, with time and trust in both ourselves and our dominant, and being completely honest about how certain activites make us feel and the physical and psychological effects they cause in us, we can start to let go of them. but i think for the most part, at least in my experience, my Dominant does not want me to just take everything He does - He wants to know what effect it has on me, and then He can better use it to His own ends - sometimes because i like it, sometimes because i don't.

just wanted to reiterate that this is all based on personal experience and entirely likely to be wrong :) as tara said - explore SLOWLY. you have plenty of time. and tons and tons of good luck to you! just keep reading and asking.

< Message edited by fullofgrace -- 5/5/2006 5:19:33 AM >

_____________________________

i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to kittensmailbox)

Post #: 6

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 5:26:00 AM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

Hey I'm in the same boat. I know exactly what you mean. You can get the book and read it but you'll have questions and then who the hell are you going to ask? When you do you'll still get different answers anyway so it seems pretty pointless. (but you could try the book anyway) I haven't read it but many people have recommened it so it must be a good one.

I signed up here in August of last year and I still consider myself to be completely clueless. However, when I started I was utterly and hopelessly clueless, so I've come a long way. You will too.

I too am struggling with understanding that line of walking between giving up control, as a submissive is supposed to do, and protecting myself. So far I think it's mostly a matter of timing. The time to be strong and true to yourself and protect yourself is in the beginning stages when you are talking about what you will/won't do and how much you feel safe with to start etc... It's also the time to get a good feel for a potential Dom and learn to trust him. During this stage you should feel able to disagree, stand up to him, tell him no etc... just as you would in any other situation. If there is something about him that makes you feel as if you can't openly communicate then he may not be right for you. You should be able to openly and thoroughly discuss any concerns, discomfort, fears, worries etc... with him. If he doesn't seem concerned, cuts you off, doesn't appear to want to listen, or seems to want to manipulate you into moving forward without a very clear understanding then it's probably best to move on. In other words, if ANYTHING feels wrong, don't go forward until you are comfortable. If he can't seem to respond in a way that alleviates your concerns, then don't go forward with that Dom.

It's very difficult and I already screwed up once. But unless you REALLY screw up, you won't have any permanent damange, you'll have some fun and learn some things.

Also remember when you read information from people who are in long term D/s relationships, that their perspective is different than yours. They are speaking from the perspective of having reached the goal that many seek. They are not speaking from the perspective of just getting started. When they speak of complete obedience/submission etc... they mean they have worked through various obstacles in the relationship and in communication to get to that point. They didn't start that way. I think my biggest misunderstanding was to think that in order to call myself "submissive" that I had to be completely obedient and totally submit from the very beginning. That is not true. It is a gradual giving up of control over time as he learns to understand and know you and you learn to trust and let go.

Feel free to email me if you like. I'm not sure if I can lead you to the other side of this confusing maze, but I might be able to point out a few pitfalls I've already stumbled into.

(in reply to kittensmailbox)

Post #: 7

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 5:26:56 AM

spankmepink11

Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline

texasbutterfly....
I can completely relate to what your saying....it can be very hard for me to say no as well...but the advice others have given you about finding your limits is very sound, for your own safety and piece of mind.
I have only a few hard limits but they are absolute...and as long as those are respected.....then...i don't ever have to worry about saying no...it becomes a non issue. (just my opinion). Of course...that doesn't have to mean that i am always thrilled with what i'm asked to do....but sometimes...that adds to the excitement of doing them.....if that makes sense?

best of luck...

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 8

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 5:27:17 AM

sophia37

Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline

So the question is, "what do you consider the difference is between a submissive/slave and a doormat".
I could go for the obvious and say a doormat's made out of hemp and a slave sounds like a human being.
But I dont think that's what you're after.

So ok. To me, as a slave you've opted to say, I will do whatever you tell me to do. Thats a slave.
A doormat, is when everyone around you asks for favors and you've said Yes to all, when all you really wanted to do was to say no. Now that's, a doormat. And also something we learn to stop being the older we get. A lot of us start out as doormats before we realize we dont like getting constantly stepped on.

(in reply to fullofgrace)

Post #: 9

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 5:53:51 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: texasbutterfly
if my Master tells me to do something, i am going to do it...whether i want to or not. i don't know my limits so it is hard to say what they are.

i know this thread does not make any sense and is not well thought out. does anybody have any advice?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_304173/mpage_1/key_doormat/tm.htm#304173
A sub, not a doormat

http://www.collarchat.com/m_182209/mpage_1/key_doormat/tm.htm#182209
Generous vs doormat

http://www.collarchat.com/m_152265/mpage_1/key_doormat/tm.htm#152265
Does obedience = doormat?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_124789/mpage_1/key_doormat/tm.htm#124789
Submission- Assertiveness vs Doormat

http://www.collarchat.com/m_73624/mpage_1/key_doormat/tm.htm#73624
Doormats?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_47170/mpage_1/key_doormat/tm.htm#47170
not a doormat = topping from the bottom

http://www.collarchat.com/m_24116/mpage_1/key_doormat/tm.htm#24116
doormats

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 10

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 6:08:44 AM

MrDiscipline44

Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline

Why worry yourself over it? This statement here is all you need to worry about:

quote:

if my Master tells me to do something, i am going to do it...whether i want to or not.

To me, it shows your head is in the right place for who you are. Don't worry about what others label a doormat. Their labels are not your concern. You just need to be happy in who you are.

< Message edited by MrDiscipline44 -- 5/5/2006 6:09:28 AM >

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 11

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 6:45:06 AM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear Texasbutterfly, Ladies and Gentlemen;

Discovering yourself does not end at reading books. Although they are great references, I see you are in Texas, my former slave of two years is near DFW Texas, he said they had several groups in Texas. So, you may want to do an online inquiry "BDSM Texas" as to find a local group.

The second thing, I would recommend considering in your thought process, is how does it make you feel in obedience? In service? Will you know when you hit your limits? What limits have you drawn? I hope boundary is something you can do, as not to go too fast too soon. As soon as you grow, then boundaries can change. I also recommend following your "gut" instincts. Most times they are right.

Third thing, I would recommend on considering in your thought process is, what do you want a D/s (Dominant/submissive) or M/s (Master/slave) and or BDSM (Bondage, Discipline, Sadomasochism) to do for you? Is it healing a wounded heart? Is it giving you a hug, as you are so lonely, feeling depressed, low self esteem? What part of this dynamic as M/s calls to you? Most times people seek out a D/s relationship for healing, to put themselves in a submissive frame since they feel worthless anyway, so they feel they are no better than abused slaves, etc. Is it, a case of where you seemingly can't attract men on your own, so perhaps through slave sex, you appeal to men better perhaps? What is in the mindset or your mental chat with yourself? Perhaps, you wish power but, really don't know how to find it and once found, how to use it to the positive. Perhaps you are a loving soul, just so frustrated in not finding someone, like a man to appreciate that side of you? So what your mind speaks is really an important part of you also.

Forth thing worth consideration, is knowing that emotional, mental and spiritual scars are invisible to those outside. With online interaction, e.g. cyber scenes, web cam, phone scenes; the dominant will not have the benefit of seeing the body language. It is easy to find yourself "hurt" and "wounded" so, protect that side of you. Unfortunately, anybody now days can call themself Master, Mistress, SIR, etc. It does not mean that they are qualified. They may mean well or they may be enticing you for the wrong reason, so follow your gut instincts.

Fifth thing worth mentioning. Communication, communication, communication. Respect is earned and not demanded. It is different to recognize the D/s authority structure that keeps the line between Dominant/submissive established and maintained. By giving power to a dominant, you enable them to have power from you and draw it from you. So, be sure the dominant is a good custodian of your power. The more positive he is the better it will be. More cruel, negative the more you are on egg shells. But, if anything else is forgotten -- Never iscolate yourself from family, friends, like minded individuals. Compare notes with others and gain as much knowledge to add to your personal power as possible.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 12

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 6:57:09 AM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

I am highly enjoying your contributions to the boards.

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 13

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 8:01:52 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I think your situation, not being able to say "no" is very very common for many people who identify as submissive and also for folks trained by their families/cultures/societies to be accomdating to others.

I think lack of experience also makes it difficult to say no because you are not sure where your limits are or what yu enjoy or dislike.

Try to think of your saying what you need or want, what you don't want or need, not as saying "no" but as giving information and feedback. I think most dominants want feedback and information so they can make better decisions.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 14

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 8:06:41 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Lady Hugs, your contributions to these forums is priceless, thank you!

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 15

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 8:10:31 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

The answer is obvious...stop reading.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 16

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 8:34:03 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: texasbutterfly
... what do you consider the difference is between a submissive/slave and a doormat...

this slave considers the differences to be as follows(condensed, of course, with respect to bandwidth

):

submissive/slave: a legally recognizable adult that has entered into an intimate relationship with another person and their position in the relationship is subservient to their Dom/me/Owner/Master/Mistress, (the degree of which and labelling of is determined by those IN the relationship, prior to and/or as an ongoing process).

doormat: with the obvious hemp-fibered-saver-of-inside-floor-cleanliness description aside, it is also a word that is bandied around on this message board and others as a derogatory description of someone who exhibits completely subservient behavior, regardless of circumstance or "label", either specifically to their Owner and/or to everyone they encounter on their path.

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 17

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 9:20:45 AM

Wickad

Posts: 428
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline

In the best of all worlds you would move to a larger center, get involved with an upstanding local group, play with people who had references but be collared to no one, determine what you like and don't like and then meet that desired person (or persons) and live happily ever after.

I lived in a small town and could not find what I sought for years. They were long, mostly celibate, trying years. Then I moved to Calgary. Now, granted Calgary is by no means the 'hot spot' for BDSM in Canada but it sure beats out that small town I was living in. I thought I knew who I was in that small town and I was so determined to find it that I brought all that baggage with me to the 'big city'. You don't really know what you are or where you will end up until you have some time to explore real time.

There are a lot of idiots and wannabes and self-serving people on the internet. I suggest putting away your internet connection until you have some real life experiences and thus are better able to ascertain the differences between the 'players'.

Feel free to flame away - lol. However, I won't be able to respond until sometime Monday as I'm off on retreat with my BDSM family.

Wickad

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 18

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 9:31:36 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I feel for you being in the middle of nowhere, I am the opposite, I have to choose which events on any given night to go to.

That said, think long and hard about someone who is willing to train you online and why he is willing to dump so much work into something with little or no reward. What leads a person to do that?

That said, I would buy two books that are cheaper than Screw The Roses, Dossie Easton's The Bottoming Book and The Topping Book. Read those and I bet your eyes pop open. However, be warned, reading them and you will lose interest in your trainer and most people you meet online.

Check out www.tes.org and www.soj.org and start looking for the nearest real life groups. Find out if they have local email lists and join. There isn't a state in the union that doesn't have a few groups, perhaps there is even a closer one in a nearby state. Join them all.

Be patient, meeting interesting play partners takes time, meeting someone more serious takes even longer.

(in reply to Wickad)

Post #: 19

RE: the more i read, the more confused i get!!! - 5/5/2006 9:52:30 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

Your post makes alot of sense, your just starting out and you want some helpful advice and boy will you get it.

You will also get some bad advice and only YOU as an adult can decide which is which. Anyone who suggests that you NOT get info, is someone to be ignored. Being armed with knowledge never hurt anyone.

Now with that said I would suggest you read as much as possible and then decide what sounds agreeable/exciting to you.

Perhaps you can join a yahoo group or other online group to also gather some information and perhaps meet others who live in/around your area. If there's a major city in your state I'm sure you will find a BDSM group of some kind.

Now to me a sub is a person who is submissive but still has retained certain rights and the ability to say *no* when he/she feels that they must. A slave on the other hand is basically property with no rights except to *obey or leave* unless otherwise agreed upon.

If your just starting out sub status would probably be best as being a slave can be difficult for someone starting out. You might wish to speak to some 24/7 slaves and subs to ask them just what it is like in their relationship. Every Mistress/Master is different so it will vary quite a bit.

It all depends on what you want for yourself in this life.

Also be very careful there are people in this lifestyle, as in any lifestyle who will take advantage of you if they are allowed the opportunity. You don't deserve to be hurt mentally/phyiscally, so be smart, be cautious, stay safe..as a dear friend of mine used to say "Walk as an angel but be as wise as a serpent"

~Lashra

< Message edited by Lashra -- 5/5/2006 9:55:53 AM >

(in reply to texasbutterfly)

Post #: 20

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