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RE: Can integrity be taught? - 5/6/2006 11:35:36 PM

Vendaval

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Great question again, Proprietrix. I feel that there is basic raw material to work with in a slave/sub. By the time someone is an adult, most of their personality and values are set. But if they are willing to grow change can happen. It can also happen if life suddenly forces new circumstances on them.

I think that one reason the armed forced and religious orders, etc
work is that the individual is taken out of their normal routine
and comfort zone. Beyond teaching by example, having the slave/sub volunteer
would be a good starting point.

Regards,

Vendaval

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

When I think of teaching another person these concepts, my first thought is to teach by example. Beyond that though, I can't think of a good "teaching mechanism" to instill virtues. I suppose I can encourage volunteerism, and recycling, and the like, but those things seem almost a superficial band-aid method of teaching. I know the armed forces tries to teach these things. And sometimes clergy, boarding schools, etc... How do people in the lifestyle teach integrity and character, to their slave/student/charge/mentee, beyond just trying to be a good role model?

< Message edited by Vendaval -- 5/6/2006 11:38:06 PM >

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RE: Can integrity be taught? - 5/7/2006 3:50:49 AM

feastie

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I believe that by adulthood, most everyone understands what integrity is. I feel it's more of a choice, at that point, than anything else.

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RE: Can integrity be taught? - 5/7/2006 7:56:07 AM

puella

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I don't know that things of moral fiber and improving yourself as a human being can be taughtn to an adult, with already developed and choses patterns and ideas of their own morality, unless it is something they wish to learn.

I think they have to find the value in ... integrity, accountability, kindess, understanding, social conscience, before they can ever hope to really learn it, even at the hands of one who loves them enough to help thenm along.

I have intimately watched the beauty of another person trying to stimulate and nurture the growth of a person they love very much. Though they tend to occasionally show the person the results they want, it is usually directly a result of them wanting to get something from the person who is trying to facilitate that growth within them.. so it's not really happening...

Any kind of 'soul building' has to be done because the person sees value in it, not in terms of 'earthly' rewards, and by that I mean physical things, gaining leverage with your peers, or having some sort of superiority... but rather in terms of just wanting to grow in what you think is the direction of a 'better' person. You can of course get help with that, but not before you know it's worth, and it's cost.

Maxim time!!!

I have always maintained, that there is a very high cost for every virtue and a very seductive ease for every 'sin'.

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RE: Can integrity be taught? - 5/7/2006 10:20:15 AM

DelightMachine

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I think you instill virtue/morality/integrity in another person through his heart much less than through his mind. It's a slow process and usually takes place in childhood, so when you have a sub in front of you, you can mold him around the edges, but not very deeply in the short-term or medium-term.

But as I read your post, you seem to be talking more about what I would call the "edges" -- not a person's fundamental morality, but applying the sense of morality they already have to BDSM situations. So I assume you've already watched this person for a while and determined he or she has a fundamental sense of morality to work with.

I'd suggest engaging both the heart and the head, and I'd do it at "teaching moments" (a phrase I've heard used in the Catholic Church and, I think, in schools). A teaching moment is an example, usually dramatic, where you know you've got the other person's attention, often because that person has been shocked by something done by a third party. Then you can engage the other person's emotions as well as his mind, so at some point soon afterward it's a good time for a discussion. I definitely wouldn't make it so much a lecture as just a discussion where you encourage the other person to say what he thinks.

After the initial discussion, I'd even bring up the same matter later by saying something like, "I just can't get out of my head the way that Domme hurt that sub by not being careful enough." Or, "I just can't get it out of my head the way that sub lost an eye by standing too close to the guy whipping his wench. This is why I was so concerned when you stood so close to the woman flogging her slave." Or, "I just can't get it out of my head the way that disease ate away at that sub's arm until now it's a stump. Ugh! This is why I want you to be so careful in cleaning the floggers and my other toys. I'd really hate for that to happen to your ass."

Most of the Dommes I've been with have chatted with me afterwards about the play events we've gone to or the BDSM lectures we've attended, or just the BDSM parties we've been at, and they always mention what they liked or didn't like about the behavior of various people there. Those have always been teaching moments for me -- just the fact that I also saw the other people and may have seen the same thing take place that she referred to helped get my attention and engage some of my emotions. Sometimes it doesn't take much.

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RE: Can integrity be taught? - 5/7/2006 12:42:00 PM

DelightMachine

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I meant to say, "I think you instill virtue/morality/integrity in another person through his heart much MORE than through his mind."

Sorry, sloppy on my part.

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RE: Can integrity be taught? - 5/7/2006 1:01:33 PM

daydreamer6666

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Quick answer - no it can't.... some people are just assholes and don't give a shit about anyone else but themselves

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RE: Can integrity be taught? - 5/7/2006 1:26:16 PM

Phoenixandnika

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I strongly believe that not only can integrity be taught but also it is taught on a daily basis by parents and society as a whole. I have meet many people who say, " you either have integrity or you do not". How many people can resist negative pressures day after day? How many people can teach themselves to be productive and contributing members of society? How many people simply do not have positive role models? If you are not taught personal integrity, you do not see people act with integrity how do you gain it?

A child looks to their parent/guardian to show them right from wrong. They look to teachers, to neighbors, to society as a whole to guide them to personal integrity.

I also believe the older we become the harder it is in many ways to be taught integrity. Though this is much like anything in life. Think about it is easier for a child to learn a 2nd language than it is for an adult.

It is hard to teach an old dog new tricks(but it can be done).

Blessed Be,
Phoenix's Nika

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