Gay Marriage Foes Face Issue in Schools (Full Version)

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MsMacComb -> Gay Marriage Foes Face Issue in Schools (5/5/2006 2:15:16 PM)

BOSTON - Ever since her 5-year-old brought home a book from kindergarten that depicted a gay family, Tonia Parker has felt that her parenting has been under attack in the only state that allows same-sex marriage.

She and her husband, David, didn't want to discuss sexual orientation yet with their son, and were shocked that the book was included in a "diversity book bag" last year. David Parker subsequently got arrested for refusing to leave a Lexington school after officials refused to meet his demand that he be notified when homosexuality was discussed in his son's class.
Now the Parkers and another couple have sued school officials in federal court, claiming Lexington officials violated their parental rights to teach morals to their own children.
The way they and other opponents of gay marriage see it, the 2003 ruling that cleared the way for same-sex weddings has emboldened Massachusetts gay rights advocates to push their views in schools and ignore those who feel homosexuality is immoral.
"In many parts of the United States, we could have presented our concerns and our objections, and it wouldn't have been a problem," Tonia Parker said.
Glenn Koocher, executive director of the Massachusetts Association of School Committees, said there is no pro-gay campaign in the schools, just isolated cases exaggerated by anti-gay marriage activists who suffer from "narcissistic activist personality disorder."
Carisa Cunningham, spokeswoman for the Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders, said school curriculums haven't changed, just the reaction to them by gay marriage opponents. "Maybe the impact of the law is that it has made people much more defensive and much more afraid," she said.
In Massachusetts, like most of the nation, there is no official education policy on when or how to discuss homosexuality in the classroom.
"It's done purposely to make sure local school boards reflect the values of the local district," said Martha Kempner, a spokeswoman for the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States.
Just 10 states have laws that deal with teaching sexual orientation, two of which require some teaching of it and eight of which put restrictions on how it's presented, according to New York-based SIECUS.
Massachusetts guidelines say only that teachers should define the different sexual orientations by the fifth grade. Each school district decides how to do that, and in the past year, Lexington has emerged as the center of debate.
Officials there say that since same-sex marriage is part of life in Massachusetts, it comes up naturally and that it's impossible to notify parents every time the issue is discussed.
"It certainly strengthens the argument that we need to teach about gay marriage because it's more of a reality for our kids," said Paul Ash, superintendent of schools in Lexington. "The children see married, gay couples."
An "opt out" provision in state law requires parental notification and the chance to remove their kids from the classroom if the curriculum "primarily involves human sexual education or human sexuality issues." But same-sex marriage comes up in current events classes and other forums where it's not the primary focus and, educators say, not subject to the "opt out" law.
Kris Mineau of the Massachusetts Family Institute, which opposes gay marriage, says educators are using the perceived loophole to bypass parents. Since the marriages began in May 2004, his organization has compiled about 20 reports from media and parents in towns from Medford to Newton that highlight what his group feels is inappropriate teaching of homosexuality.
Among recent incidents: Parents Joseph and Robin Wirthlin joined the Parkers in the federal suit after a second grade teacher in Lexington read to her class the fairy tale "King and King," which tells the story of two princes falling in love.
Last April, a sexually explicit pamphlet aimed at helping gay men avoid sexually transmitted diseases was distributed at a Brookline High School conference on gay and lesbian issues. School officials said the booklet was mistakenly displayed.
Brian Camenker of the Article 8 Alliance, which opposes gay marriage, said there's been a striking change in tone by gay marriage proponents since marriages started.
"It's like you're dealing with people from Mars, people who feel they're so superior they can use your child's mind as a sandbox for their own personal ideologies," he said.
But Eliza Byard of the Gay, Lesbian & Straight Education Network said gay families exist everywhere — the only thing different about Massachusetts is that same-sex marriage makes it much harder to push them aside. Public schools must acknowledge gay families, she said, even if it upsets parents who believe same-sex relationships are immoral.
"One of the basic realities of American life," she said, "is that all of us have to deal with beliefs we disagree with."




SirKenin -> RE: Gay Marriage Foes Face Issue in Schools (5/5/2006 8:39:25 PM)

What a bunch of crap.  Have to deal with beliefs we disagree with?  Bullshit.  When Christian beliefs are presented, they are taken to the USSC and smitten from the classroom.

That whole article is a giant crock and good for the parents for standing up for what they believe in.  I did too with My children.  After all, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

EDIT:  Incidentally, I have nothing against gays.  I party with them, they are part of My lifestyle, and much more.  I just believe in fairness.  I have a funny feeling that craptastic article came from 365gay.com, although against the TOS the source was never provided.




Gauge -> RE: Gay Marriage Foes Face Issue in Schools (5/5/2006 8:54:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

What a bunch of crap.  Have to deal with beliefs we disagree with?  Bullshit.  When Christian beliefs are presented, they are taken to the USSC and smitten from the classroom.

That whole article is a giant crock and good for the parents for standing up for what they believe in.  I did too with My children.  After all, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.


I have to agree with you. If schools cannot teach anything Christian then why should I have to stand for having some other agenda shoved down my kids throat? I am not anti-gay so anyone wanting to trot that out there can just save their breath. I have a right to parent my children the way I see fit. I have the right to teach morality and values to my children as I see fit. The day will come when they may make up their own minds about things and they already have in a lot of instances.

Good for these parents taking a stand! Bravo!




MsMacComb -> RE: Gay Marriage Foes Face Issue in Schools (5/5/2006 10:25:12 PM)

 Guys, the point is that what they wish to teach is not "moral" but persecution, hate and all that evil shit that comes from the bible. The USA Constitution trumps the bible (or the Quran, Torah or any other religous rag) anyday of the week, as its should. Gays in the world is reality, religion is fiction.




Lordandmaster -> RE: Gay Marriage Foes Face Issue in Schools (5/5/2006 10:46:30 PM)

What's the source?  We're supposed to refer to things like this by linking to them, not by copying and pasting them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

BOSTON - Ever since her 5-year-old brought home a book from kindergarten that depicted a gay family, Tonia Parker has felt that her parenting has been under attack in the only state that allows same-sex marriage.   [snip]




MsMacComb -> RE: Gay Marriage Foes Face Issue in Schools (5/5/2006 10:55:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
What's the source?  We're supposed to refer to things like this by linking to them, not by copying and pasting them.
quote:



Says who? The cut and paste police. [:)]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/05/05/gay.book.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest




Amaros -> RE: Gay Marriage Foes Face Issue in Schools (5/6/2006 7:14:18 AM)

quote:

Kris Mineau of the Massachusetts Family Institute, which opposes gay marriage, says educators are using the perceived loophole to bypass parents. Since the marriages began in May 2004, his organization has compiled about 20 reports from media and parents in towns from Medford to Newton that highlight what his group feels is inappropriate teaching of homosexuality.


Are they "teaching" homosexuality or merely aluding to the fact that homosexuals exist? Do these people believe there is any appropriate way to allude to the fact that homosexuals exist?

quote:

I have to agree with you. If schools cannot teach anything Christian then why should I have to stand for having some other agenda shoved down my kids throat? I am not anti-gay so anyone wanting to trot that out there can just save their breath. I have a right to parent my children the way I see fit. I have the right to teach morality and values to my children as I see fit. The day will come when they may make up their own minds about things and they already have in a lot of instances.


Mentioning that homosexuals exist, within a context of diverse community values is not an "agenda" in the sinister sense in which this word is typically used - the attempt to sweep it all under the rug is the agenda, part of the agenda to limit the definition of community values to strictly religious ones.

Tolerance is a community value, and schools have a responsibility to promote it as best they can - you can teach them whatever you want to at home.

Homosexuality is not a communicable disease as far as I'm aware, suck it up.






fullofgrace -> RE: Gay Marriage Foes Face Issue in Schools (5/6/2006 8:42:32 AM)

to me, the difference between mentioning something about homosexuality and teaching christianity is - oh! - that lovely little thing we call SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE - which doesn't mean that christianity can't be mentioned in the classroom or that christian groups can't be run by students, it just means the school cannot sanction any prayer or practice of ANY PARTICULAR religion. by the way, i've met christian homosexuals, and there are many christian denominations who are open to gay couples - the lutheran church comes to mind (anyone read the lutheran statement on human sexuality?).

i agree with what amaros said in that it's not possible to "teach" homosexuality anymore than it is to "teach" heterosexuality. homosexual couples exist, just like heterosexual ones do, and homosexual families exist, even in states where they're not allowed to marry (i know a few of those, too). it would be immoral, in my opinion, to NOT mention that to students, especially to older (middle/high school) students who are exploring their sexuality in a world where it's not the accepted thing to be gay. the last place they need more persecution is from the school administration - a place where they should feel welcomed and accepted for BEING WHO THEY ARE. as far as younger students, just like most schools don't teach sex ed til 4th or 5th grade, i think it's appropriate to show homosexual couples as one does heterosexual couples at a younger age but not necessarily go into specifics until they're older. and also as amaros said...homosexuality is not a communicable disease. by the way, when christianity stops being a religion and starts being a sexual orientation, maybe it will have the same status as mentioning homosexuality in a classroom in my mind.

i grew up southern baptist and went to a catholic school. i'm happily bisexual today (and buddhist with lots of pagan flavoring). i didn't learn positive things about homosexuality in the classroom - just that it was immoral (catholics take a love the sinner, hate the sin stance on it - at least that's the official stance) - but it was discussed, very limitedly (not at that young of an age). now students i went through k-8th with are learning about their sexuality after being in high school and some of them are bisexual and gay. in my mind, whether or not you eventually discover that about yourself has very little to do with what you are exposed to in school, and as homosexuals DO exist, i think it's wrong NOT to expose children to that. all we need is more discrimination.




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