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What do you think of this? - 3/11/2011 9:09:57 PM

SAMHAIN09

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Okay I have been watching this show Criminal Minds for a while now and something has been bothering me every time a serial killer classified as a sexual sadist is thrown in the mix they rule out women as the prime suspect because they say that women aren't capable of being sexual sadists. Well do you agree with this? I personally don't because one look at Elisabeth Bathory one of if not the most famous female serial killer she murdered and tortured over 600 young girls because she believed that their blood would keep her young forever and two if women weren't capable of being sexual sadists their wouldn't be any femdom (apologies if I am offending anyone).
So do you agree with this belief that a serial killer that sexually enjoys killing their victims can't be a woman?

< Message edited by SAMHAIN09 -- 3/11/2011 9:11:59 PM >

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RE: What do you think of this? - 3/11/2011 9:12:38 PM

sexyred1

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They have featured women serial killes on that show and others and they rarely, if ever, show them as sadists, you are correct.

I am not sure why this is, but perhaps it is geared towards the general mass public who may not be able to tolerate a woman sadistic serial killer, as much as they do male sadistic serial killers.

They perhaps may want to say it is because a woman was very abused, that she became a killer, ala Aileen Wournos.

I am sure that there are sadistic female killers out there, just not on TV.

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RE: What do you think of this? - 3/11/2011 9:42:59 PM

gungadin09

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SAMHAIN09
So do you agree with this belief that a serial killer that sexually enjoys killing their victims can't be a woman?

i haven't watched the show, nor am i an expert on serial killers. i don't believe women are incapable of being a sexually sadistic serial killers.
As far as i know, no one really believes that they *can't*. You gave an example of a woman who was a sexually sadistic serial killer. That proves that it's not impossible.

As i understand it, police make a profile of who a serial killer is *likely* to be. The list usually focuses on Causasian men of a certain age, because the overwhelming majority of sexually sadistic serial killers fall into that category. Obviously, not all of them do. The fact that police focus their energies on that group (in the absence of any evidence to the contary) does not imply that they think it's *impossible* for it to be anyone else. It just means that they want to save time by focussing on what they believe is likely.

i'm sure that if the evidence suggested that a sexually sadistic serial killer was a woman, they would look for a woman. In the absence of evidence of the killer's identity, the police go off of what's most likely.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 3/11/2011 9:50:29 PM >

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RE: What do you think of this? - 3/11/2011 9:46:48 PM

isoLadyOwner

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Karla Homolka.

Irma Grese.

There are probably a few more.

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RE: What do you think of this? - 3/11/2011 9:56:53 PM

gungadin09

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quote:

ORIGINAL: isoLadyOwner

Karla Homolka.

Irma Grese.

There are probably a few more.

Okay, but there are probably at least a hundred men for every woman you could name. i believe that's why the police profile men, in the absence of evidence to the contrary. i'm sure that if the evidence in a particular case suggested a woman, the police would be profiling women.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 3/11/2011 10:47:42 PM >

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RE: What do you think of this? - 3/11/2011 10:13:55 PM

isoLadyOwner

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The OP asked if "a serial killer that sexually enjoys killing their victims can't be a woman?". Irma Grese was a war criminal but killed many people, Karla Homolka falls into the category of female criminal described by the OP. Myra Hindley does as well.

The police profile men because in all likelihood a man will have been involved in the type of crime the OP asked about, sadistic serial murders committed by women are rare but they happen.

There are probably more than a thousand male murderers in that category for every female.

< Message edited by isoLadyOwner -- 3/11/2011 10:15:35 PM >

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RE: What do you think of this? - 3/11/2011 10:24:33 PM

NocturnalStalker

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Sadly Karla Homolka is mostly seen as a "victim" in the case of her and Paul Bernardo. The reason being because she had a fairly normal and non-suspicious upbringing as opposed to her husband that obviously had some issues in his past.

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RE: What do you think of this? - 3/11/2011 11:21:45 PM

stellauk

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Well if you know Elizabeth Batory you might also have heard of the similar case in Russia of Daria Nikolayevna Saltykova, the 18th century Moscow noblewoman who murdered as many as 100 serfs and servants, mainly female.

I would suggest that Rosemary West would be a better example of such a killer than Myra Hindley, who was only active in one of the five murders Ian Brady carried out. Rosemary West was convicted of ten murders and her husband, Fred West, who committed suicide in prison, was the accessory.

I would even put a question mark over Aileen Wuornos. If you look at it from the perspective that the desire to inflict pain and suffering on someone is not just an activity, but a desire and an intention, and if you examine the Wuornos case and examine what motivated her to kill each of her victims, it might be construed as sadism. Given that they were men who picked her up as a prostitute, i,e, with some sexual intent or motive, it could be argued that Wuornos is the first and only female sadist serial killer executed in the United States.

It is possible, but the reason that they have featured so few female sexual sadistic serial killers is that they are the exception rather than a trend.

I would say that this is generally because women relate to others differently from men, so their reasons for committing murder are generally different. Generally speaking women murder people because of a relationship either with the victim as in children or a partner or with a rival, or for financial or material gain.

But there are exceptions. Off the top of my head I seem to recall Lynda Lyon Block was executed in Alabama for killing a cop, and I know that there are at least two women on Death Row in Texas for drug related killings.

Women tend not to be serial killers, mainly because they tend to murder people known to them rather than random strangers.

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RE: What do you think of this? - 3/12/2011 8:50:17 AM

Missokyst

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The odds are more in favor of males being sexual sadists and criminals than females. But they are using generalizations. Criminal Minds has done a show where they are shocked mid episode to acknowlege the killer is sadistic, and female. And on CSI (who also uses the same odds of factor) has had a child sadistic killer, and at least 2 women who were both sadists and criminal. I don't think I have seen one on Law and Order.

Writers must rely heavily on statistics.

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RE: What do you think of this? - 3/12/2011 8:58:32 AM

peachgirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SAMHAIN09

Okay I have been watching this show Criminal Minds for a while now and something has been bothering me every time a serial killer classified as a sexual sadist is thrown in the mix they rule out women as the prime suspect because they say that women aren't capable of being sexual sadists. Well do you agree with this? I personally don't because one look at Elisabeth Bathory one of if not the most famous female serial killer she murdered and tortured over 600 young girls because she believed that their blood would keep her young forever and two if women weren't capable of being sexual sadists their wouldn't be any femdom (apologies if I am offending anyone).
So do you agree with this belief that a serial killer that sexually enjoys killing their victims can't be a woman?

tv shows are about making money, not about being historically accurate.

that said, I love Criminal Minds. still entertaining after all those episodes.

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RE: What do you think of this? - 3/13/2011 10:37:36 AM

DesFIP

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Because the odds favor the perp being male not female. The odds are overwhelmingly that a sexual serial killer is male.

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RE: What do you think of this? - 3/13/2011 11:33:25 AM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SAMHAIN09

every time a serial killer classified as a sexual sadist is thrown in the mix they rule out women as the prime suspect because they say that women aren't capable of being sexual sadists. Well do you agree with this?

So do you agree with this belief that a serial killer that sexually enjoys killing their victims can't be a woman?

Occam's Razor.

From a statistical perspective, serial killers - sadistic or otherwise - are more likely to be male than female.
They are more likely to be in the 25-35 age range.
In the U.S., they are more likely to be Caucasian, reflecting the ethnic makeup of the population.
They are more likely to be of above-average intelligence.

Ninety percent of all serial killers in the U.S. fall into this profile. So, when a killer displays sexual sadism in the MO, the most likely suspect is a white male between the ages of 25-35. When speed is vital in preventing another murder, it makes sense to rule out anyone who doesn't fit those parameters unless new data is uncovered which challenges them.

In creating a script for a show like Criminal Minds, the writers have to make the story realistic enough to be believable. If they deviate from known data that can be easily researched on the 'net, they have to create a believable reason for that deviation. If they depart from the "norm" too often, they lose their audience because they don't trust the writers to be reliable storytellers. From that POV, it makes even more sense to eliminate a woman as a sexual sadist except on rare occasions. It's not about historical accuracy, it's about telling a story the majority of the target audience will believe and enjoy.

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RE: What do you think of this? - 3/13/2011 1:14:45 PM

MalcolmNathaniel

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You need to remember that these are television scripts. They are written by people who don't understand statistics for people who don't understand statistics.

It is _likely_ in the US that a serial killer will be a Caucasian male between the ages of 25 and 35. That doesn't mean it has to be. When it isn't (in TV shows) it's usually sweeps week or a season finale.

If you want a show that takes this to extremes watch "Numbers." The basic idea is that there is a genius mathematician who helps solve crimes. The math, the basic premise of the show, is so poorly understood by the writers that the show is unwatchable if you've got two brain cells to rub together.

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