Not being "Needy" (Full Version)

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IsaNova -> Not being "Needy" (3/12/2011 9:33:20 AM)

Dear Mistresses,

As someone who hopes to be of service and part of a family/household someday, I wonder if I might ask some advice.

I've often wondered about the cries of "needy sub", questions of co-dependency in the lifestyle, and other fears along those lines. It's true that anyone can be stifling if they lean on you too heavily, but is not part of our nature to be "needy"? I know I need love & affection, I need dominance and control over my life, and I need rules and sadomasochism in my life. After all, that's why I seek to enter into this dynamic.

I don't need it to breathe, I wouldn't need a babysitter in my life telling me what to do or anything... just someone to guide me in the major decisions, and to judge and hold accountable my actions so that I may learn and grow.

I do recognize in myself a certain emotional neediness, I am not perfect by any means. I know I struggle, I fight depression, I feel super-lonely and need to place my head at someone's knee from time to time. Sometimes I just need a friend to talk to or confess my fears/foibles to. I am no Fabio kneeling on a bed of chains... just me, as I am, trying to improve myself.

Often the cry of "needy" is a fear factor for me. I don't do emotions well, and part of wanting to trust someone is to show them the real me, unshielded. In the community and the lifestyle I have learned this to be a bad thing. There's extreme pressure on us submissives to hide our faults and compete like knights errant or something. To me this strikes as disingenuous. Yes I want to court m'Ladys favor... but I have no desire to lie to her, or show falseness in my character. I want Her to get to know me, to know my deepest secrets, joys and fears, even weaknesses... so that I may better trust her when I lay down my walls and open myself to her.

Does that make sense? How can a submissive be open and true about their needs and desires without inspiring fear of being a co-dependent leech? Is it a matter of balance in what you show and hide, some sort of game? Can anyone explain this to me better? I humbly request Your advice, for I truly do not grasp this kind of dance.



LadyPact -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/12/2011 9:59:12 AM)

My thoughts on this is that I highly prefer, at the beginning of a dynamic, to be what someone wants rather than what someone needs.  There really is a significance between the two.  Yes, as bonds form and people become closer, they do rely on each other more as a part of their lives.  Somebody who is needy from the word go is something that doesn't appeal to Me. 

When people come on the forums and profess the extent that they "need" a Dominant, it's a quick way for Me to become completely uninterested.  It just screams that they are not a fulfilled person in their own right and it's a clue that they haven't built themselves up with their own interests, friends, and activities.  This tells Me that they are less likely to accept that I also have those things in My life.  Their "needs" have the potential to be suffocating. 

In this, I don't see it as wanting someone to hide their faults.  I just know who I am compatible with and who I am not.  I don't mesh well with those who automatically equate being alone (without a relationship or dynamic) with being lonely.  Sure, everybody gets lonely once in a while, but when it's such a huge focus for a person, I can tell they have a different personality type than Mine.  I might even go so far as to say that back when I was single (it's been a number of years) that I was busier then than am I now that I'm married.  I was always out with friends, doing things, going places that I was out having fun.  I prefer folks with that outgoing kind of attitude.  It's just who I am and it's who I want to be with.

I can't say that I suggest lying to folks.  What I would suggest is doing what you can to have a more well rounded life.  I do happen to think it makes people more attractive.  Some folks might disagree with that, but it's My opinion.



subexploring -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/12/2011 10:09:34 AM)

I'm not a mistress, but personally I feel like if you're looking for a primary relationship that is going to be a major life anchor, then it's fine to show some or acknowledge some neediness. One thing about the "scene" is that a lot of people in it are looking for various forms of casual sexual play and not for a lasting relationship (a lot of people are not that honest about this, which is why you see a ton of short term "relationships" in BDSM). It's all very well to talk about being fulfilled on your own, but most people do, in fact, need intimacy in their lives and are not complete without it.

Where things can trip up is people who let their neediness dominate them to such an extent that they sort of dump it all over a stranger almost as soon as they meet. That tends to indicate that the person is driven by such deep problems that they can't handle the ordinary process of social interaction, the gradual steps involved in getting to know someone, etc. Emotional neediness is sort of like sexuality -- it's deep and important and everyone has it, but you shouldn't be whipping out your genitals first thing.



PeonForHer -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/12/2011 11:13:29 AM)

FR

Hmmm. Interesting. I've had it suggested here - by a quite well-respected Domme on this site - that my merely wanting, rather needing, control is likely only to lead to a superficial kind of D/s dynamic between a d-type partner and myself.



LadyPact -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/12/2011 11:56:24 AM)

It depends on how you look at it, peon.  If you really need it without there being the connection that comes from an established dynamic, what is the difference between that and the 'any Domme will do' philosophy?  It's not based on what is being shared.  More like the stuff that is built up in one's own head before the other person ever entered the picture.



Wheldrake -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/12/2011 12:21:48 PM)

There are degrees of needing, just like there are degrees of wanting, and needing and wanting have a big area of overlap that could be plausibly described by either word (depending on one's communication style more than anything else). I don't need to be controlled in order to stay sane, functional and reasonably fulfilled. I probably do need to be controlled in order to come close to reaching my full potential, in lots of different ways, and in order to feel really good (as opposed to just pretty good) about the way my life is unfolding. Control doesn't spell the difference between despair and happiness, but it does add something to my emotional well-being, and whether I'm inclined to consider my desire for control a want or a need depends on how important that "something" seems on any given day. Most often I would definitely say "want", but I'm sure there are others who would respond to exactly the same emotional impulses by saying "need".



PeonForHer -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/12/2011 12:25:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheldrake
Most often I would definitely say "want", but I'm sure there are others who would respond to exactly the same emotional impulses by saying "need".



I did a lot of economics, politics and ecology at Uni, Wheldrake. It comes as no surprise that this is yet another area in which people have quite different ideas of where 'need' stops and 'want' starts. [;)]



Arpig -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/12/2011 12:31:12 PM)

Need? Damn that's a heavy load to put on anybody, vanilla or dominant. Want me..sure, want me so much it almost hurts...even better, but need me...no thanks, I didn't sign up for that, you're continued existence is your responsibility, not mine

Now as to being needy? You need a lot of attention...then find a Domme who gets off on lavishing attention on their sub.

quote:

Often the cry of "needy" is a fear factor for me. I don't do emotions well, and part of wanting to trust someone is to show them the real me, unshielded. In the community and the lifestyle I have learned this to be a bad thing. There's extreme pressure on us submissives to hide our faults and compete like knights errant or something. To me this strikes as disingenuous. Yes I want to court m'Ladys favor... but I have no desire to lie to her, or show falseness in my character. I want Her to get to know me, to know my deepest secrets, joys and fears, even weaknesses... so that I may better trust her when I lay down my walls and open myself to her.
Jesus..you have been hanging around some weird fuckers (or maybe its me that's weird). I want my girl's emotions right out in the open...naked and exposed. Hide nothing...immerse yourself in every emotion and experience it to the fullest. Lie to me or play me false and I'll show you the door...I don't want to be falling for a facade, show me the real person, in all your passion and glory, with all your faults and idiocies. I don't want you to mould yourself to me...I want to enjoy who you are.




stellauk -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/12/2011 12:34:48 PM)

It's simple. Don't be a co-dependent. As far as I'm aware nobody has ever died from a lack of sex or opportunities to serve or submit.

I don't know where you get this idea that there's extreme pressure on submissives to hide faults and compete. This isn't some sort of competition or contest, it's not a game. That extreme pressure which you (and others) perceive actually isn't the reality.

This is all about levels - Level 1 - the person, who they are, Level 2 - the relationship and interaction and then Level 3 - the agreed upon dynamic. Most people, especially women, want to start out at Level 1 and start at the beginning. Some people, mainly men, want to skip Level 1 and start out at Level 3 and maybe try to combine it with Level 2. I say mainly men because it's a male machismo thing. Most men generally have the male machismo thing under control. A few women can also try to skip the steps.

It's important not to generalize or rely too much on labels. Humans are generally far more complex than the labels they choose to identify themselves.

The neediness all comes from the projecting, the expectations and the expression of desires.

If you find yourself in a situation where you need to be loved by someone else then maybe you need to take a step back and ask yourself why. Is it actually love you're needing? Or something else? And why does it need to come from another person?

People generally operate out of self-interest, many think in terms of trade and generally speaking they're looking for some sort of payoff. Sometimes there are exceptions, there are people who are more altruistic, and others who can be a bit more altruistic in a given situation, but usually people are generally pretty choosy over when, where and with whom they share their altruism.

But they also like having freedom of choice and also opportunities to come up with their own input.

Generally speaking dommes are women who are highly intelligent, very much aware of what's what and they have usually a fair degree of life experience. The amount of attention they receive also teaches them very quickly that not everybody is who they appear to be and also that they can be overlooked for the women they are by those who just want the domme part.

They don't need the big picture or the relationship handed to them on a plate. That's their role, is it not? To make the decisions? Decide what's what? Steaming in there like the cavalry takes away all those opportunities.

But they are also human beings, women, they have thoughts, feelings, opinions, and stuff they want to share. They consistently make really warm, supportive, close friends.

How do I know this? Roughly half of my closest friends are all dommes. If I have a problem or need advice, it's generally 50/50 it will come from a woman who identifies as a domme. They also know it runs both ways, and that I am there for them when they need advice or have a problem.

There's your answer in a nutshell - start out with friendship, and don't expect anything else until she wants to talk about it. No need to be a white knight, a superhero, the ideal sub, a damage case, or a cause to be rescued.

Just be a friend. Nothing more, nothing less. If something develops, you win, and if it doesn't you win. You still have a friend.

It's no different to anyone else being honest. We are all human at the end of the day.



leadership527 -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/12/2011 1:03:05 PM)

need·y (nd)
2. Wanting or needing affection, attention, or reassurance, especially to an excessive degree.

In the end it's all going to be about that determination of "to an excessive degree". Carol and I are so intimate with each other that we definitely "need" each other quite a bit. Obviously, neither of us assesses it as "to an excessive degree".



PeonForHer -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/12/2011 1:06:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

It depends on how you look at it, peon.  If you really need it without there being the connection that comes from an established dynamic, what is the difference between that and the 'any Domme will do' philosophy?  It's not based on what is being shared.  More like the stuff that is built up in one's own head before the other person ever entered the picture.


Gawd, LP - I've never thought of that one before. Hmmm.

First reactions:

Hah! No, any Domme will not do. Not by a long, long way. On my profile I talk about wanting a femdom who is 'dominant, whatever she believes "dominant" to mean'. On that I think I'm pretty flexible - but I've become less flexible regarding the sort of person she is. She doesn't have to be some great uberdomme leader - or even a good leader. She doesn't even have to be 'better' than me in any particular way. She doesn't need to be cleverer, more successful or richer than me. She just needs to want to dominate. The 'desire to dominate' is really all that matters, in regards to the nature of her D/s interests. The rest will follow.

But, but - and this is where I've become more inflexible over the years - I can't (or won't) deal with nutty, nasty women any more. There are more femdoms who are like this than I once thought, I'm afraid to say. I'm very, very clear that it's better to be single than to be with a partner who is damaging. And a woman *will* be damaging to me if I open up to her - as I must and will, because she's my partner - and she hasn't got the wisdom and emotional balance carefully to deal with what she finds in me. It's that wisdom and emotional balance that's crucial.

Against that: If I had no need whatsoever for a D/s relationship, I'd never have joined CM and wouldn't have bothered ever talking about D/s relationships. Or, at least, I'd have stayed only long enough to learn that I'd have much better luck in the vanilla world - the ratios being a great deal more in my favour in that latter world.

So I have to accept that there's some major want for a D/s relationship in me. Also, I'm preparing myself for the eventuality that this want could easily become a heavy-duty need after I've had more experience (assuming that ever happens - heh). People only 'want' a heroine jab to start with; later, it becomes a driving need - so I understand. Possibly that could be me, with regard to D/s, in the future.

Ummm - the foregoing is waffly and I'm not even sure I've properly addressed your comment. I shall have to ponder on it some more . . . .



stellauk -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/12/2011 2:40:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

need·y (nd)
2. Wanting or needing affection, attention, or reassurance, especially to an excessive degree.

In the end it's all going to be about that determination of "to an excessive degree". Carol and I are so intimate with each other that we definitely "need" each other quite a bit. Obviously, neither of us assesses it as "to an excessive degree".


True, but can you imagine what your life would be like without Carol? And I bet you would struggle to imagine what your life would be like now if Carol never existed and you hadn't met her? Try to remember what your life was like before Carol and consider the process you both went through to get this far.

You're talking about an established relationship and what I imagine to be a very beautiful, harmonious and successful relationship. You've done the distance.

The OP is talking I feel about the start of the relationship and I see it pretty much the way LadyPact sees it.

You can only need someone if you have a preconceived relationship already worked out. You need a mechanic, because the gasket has blown in your car, or you need a cleaner to give your apartment the once over. Any mechanic or cleaner will do.

I'm rather close to a small number of people off this site, including dommes. I'll give Prin as a specific example, and she and all the others in my life all bring something very special and very meaningful to my life in their own individual way, and I hope it goes both ways.

The thing is I don't need to be in a relationship with anyone in my life to appreciate them. I don't need any of these people in my life, I don't need stuff like intimacy, friendship, attention. There's times in my life when I needed such things and I didn't get them. I had to learn to get by without such needs being fulfilled, I had to learn to be self-sufficient and also to live vicariously.

But it's taught me to appreciate other people much more and what they do for me. I enjoy the people in my life, they are an integral part of the quality of my life. Nothing means more to me than these people turning to me and sharing their stuff with me. I would be sad if ever any of them left my life, I really would, but rather than wallow in the sadness I would appreciate that what we shared and the fact that the friendship existed in the first place. I'd much rather have people in my life through choice than necessity.

There's not only a grey area between want and need, there's also another grey area between need and demand. And the difference between need and demand is difficult to work out when you don't know the other person. What you perceive as needs the other person, who doesn't share your reality or know what is in your mind, can just as easily perceive as demands.

The sub reaches out, believing he is expressing desire through expressing his needs, and the domme just sees a demanding sub focussed on himself and kicks him to the curb. He tries to explain, put things right, and she sees it as harrassment and blocks him.

Thing is relationships take two people to want, and this is not just about wanting the relationship but wanting it with that particular person. Until you've reached that stage and given it a go, sharing and wanting deeper intimacy with that specific person I just don't see how anyone can realistically need another person.



leadership527 -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/12/2011 4:29:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk
Try to remember what your life was like before Carol

I remember it clearly. I'm a relationship guy. I was angry, bitter, and miserable on a whole variety of counts. To be fair, I was also in the middle of a divorce but honestly I don't do well single. The word "needy" might have reasonably been applied to me. Then again, I asked Carol if I was "needy" when we met and she gave an emphatic "no". I suspect that I'm looking at the internal turmoil, misery and despair while she's looking at the net result after it was filtered by things like strength and discipline. That line of thought left Carol asking a question, "Can a strong person ever be needy?" My own opinion is "Yes, at least situationally".

All that said, I do agree with the idea that you cannot need a specific individual before you know them. You can only need something like "a life partner" or whatever role you envision you are seeking. It's only after the fact that it's possible to size up a specific individual and determine how they might fit the role you are looking for.



stellauk -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/16/2011 4:02:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk
Try to remember what your life was like before Carol

I remember it clearly. I'm a relationship guy. I was angry, bitter, and miserable on a whole variety of counts. To be fair, I was also in the middle of a divorce but honestly I don't do well single. The word "needy" might have reasonably been applied to me. Then again, I asked Carol if I was "needy" when we met and she gave an emphatic "no". I suspect that I'm looking at the internal turmoil, misery and despair while she's looking at the net result after it was filtered by things like strength and discipline. That line of thought left Carol asking a question, "Can a strong person ever be needy?" My own opinion is "Yes, at least situationally".

All that said, I do agree with the idea that you cannot need a specific individual before you know them. You can only need something like "a life partner" or whatever role you envision you are seeking. It's only after the fact that it's possible to size up a specific individual and determine how they might fit the role you are looking for.


Yeah but without knowing you and going on what you represent and relate on the boards I'd say you were both highly intelligent, open-minded people who understood that starting out getting to know someone is all about opportunities, exploration and discovery.

Everyone has needs, but until you know the person who has the needs and are able to understand how they need those needs to be fulfilled there's not much chance of either deriving any sort of fulfillment or happiness from fulfilling those needs.



DarkSteven -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/16/2011 4:46:51 PM)

OP, the focus is on you and your needs.  Don't forget to focus on what you bring to the table as well.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/17/2011 12:13:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
need·y (nd)
2. Wanting or needing affection, attention, or reassurance, especially to an excessive degree.

In the end it's all going to be about that determination of "to an excessive degree". Carol and I are so intimate with each other that we definitely "need" each other quite a bit. Obviously, neither of us assesses it as "to an excessive degree".

I agree with this completely! Being Needy, is definitely subjective. For me, as long as someone is not insane, to form an attachment without knowing or being with me, than being relatively needy is just fine. I respond much better to one who puts their feelings out there, rather than holding on, trying to figure out apropriate times for it to demonstrate it. M



Arieno -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/17/2011 10:41:36 AM)

quote:

I respond much better to one who puts their feelings out there, rather than holding on, trying to figure out apropriate times for it to demonstrate it.


My comment may be hijacking the thread, I don’t know, I am still quite new on this site so if I have wondered off topic forgive me.
I found the following comment (SexyBossyBBW) paralleling my thinking when interacting with others throughout every aspect of my life. “I respond much better to one who puts their feelings out there, rather than holding on, trying to figure out appropriate times for it to demonstrate it.



leadership527 -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/17/2011 12:35:06 PM)

I totally agree with you Stella. I knew I needed a "life partner". But honestly, my view on what constitutes that is pretty broad. It means in my own head, "A human I'm compatible with and enjoy being around". But I can envision a bajillion different possible relationships that would satisfy that criteria and a bajillion different people to go with. Each human I meet gets sized up in a vacuum, not against any detailed criteria list. I don't personally believe my imagination is up to the task of imagining every possible human I might meet before hand.

I also don't meet people with the idea of forming a relationship. I just meet people as I go through my life. Some of 'em stick for whatever reasons.



SthrnCom4t -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/17/2011 8:53:03 PM)

I think there is a difference between being 'needy' and enjoying 'connection. I enjoy connection with my friends. I am 'connected' with Otter, often. We talk while I drive to work, and while I drive home. (or vice versa) We talk a few times a day.

However, if we don't get a chance because our work schedule gets crazy, that's ok.

Neither of us needs constant reassurance of the other's affection.

To me, 'needy' means someone who doesn't have feelings of security. The thing is, *security* comes from within. Having the confidence you can handle whatever life throws your way...knowing you'll do what you have to to deal with it, inspires *security*.

I can provide a safe and loving environment, but I can't 'make' someone feel secure.

To me, "neediness" in another individual is a problem, when there is unnecessary drama. High emotions can be rooted in fear and insecurity. An individual who operates from a base of fear, is very 'high maintenance' ie, always needing reassurance. This requirement feels very much like *demand* energy; which is draining.

Specifically to the OP - are you 'needy' or do you just enjoy connection? If looking inside results in the former, that's ok, awareness is half the battle. Likely it will just be continual improvement (not overnight perfection) from here, as you recognize deeper motives. If the answer is the latter, then it's a matter of 'compatibility', but one which you can speak to, from a self evolved place. :)



Prinsexx -> RE: Not being "Needy" (3/18/2011 6:59:24 PM)

Although I have often said it's not about someone's needs I find more and more that I can't work with trying to figure out the difference between needs and wants because one I can't work with someone else's definitions (I can only go by behaviour). And two that in any case what I find needy behaviour in one person I find quite attractive in another.
I'm simply going more on energy flow, since it's all about the dynamic to me.
Thus, if I find my energy beginning to diminish I start to have doubts.
If I find my energy sapping then it's already the end for me even if I haven't yet caught up with an approprite commnication to say so.
If I find I am drained then there is no turning back and no salvation.
And there are quite a few energy vampires out there on both sides of the /.




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