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An Inside Job - 3/15/2011 9:26:30 AM   
hlen5


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I encourage EVERYONE to watch this documentary. It makes the financial meltdown understandable. If it doesn't piss you off and make you want actual consequences for what happened, someone should check your pulse.

I will go so far to say if a moderate (shudders, swallows hard,grits my teeth) REPUBLICAN were to promise concrete action, ie jail for the perps (and even better post election, follow through!), I'd vote for him/her.

These smug bastards should not get away with this.


ETA: I hope this doesn't degenerate to right/left squabbling,please??

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 3/15/2011 9:28:46 AM >


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RE: An Inside Job - 3/15/2011 9:31:12 AM   
DomYngBlk


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You hadda link?

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RE: An Inside Job - 3/15/2011 9:32:13 AM   
mnottertail


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No link for YOU, soup nazi!!!!!

Kramer

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RE: An Inside Job - 3/15/2011 9:35:57 AM   
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One thing I have discovered, is politicians whatever they cling to never punish their controllers. If they do, it will be a small bit part player the controllers can sacrifice in the name of maintaining the status quo. But that is the measure of the career politicians you elect are they willing to bite the hand that feeds them in the name of their position as the voice of the electorate. What if they were pushed, would they do it , what's worse for them, death of a political career, or cut out of the loop on the gravy train.

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RE: An Inside Job - 3/15/2011 9:56:01 AM   
EternalHoH


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I wish it had a better title, tho, something less incriminating sounding that would result in more neutral people taking an interest in it.

The present title gives an external impression that it encroaches on 9/11 truther-type stuff, and that's not going to 'win hearts and minds' of the independent viewers.

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RE: An Inside Job - 3/15/2011 10:54:05 AM   
Fellow


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Here is a recent article from a financial economist explaining in numbers what happened and  showing why TARP was unnecessary (or actually generated a set of serious problems).
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article26902.html
I have said the same from the start based on just common sense. 

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RE: An Inside Job - 3/15/2011 10:55:35 AM   
Louve00


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I believe all the "moderate" republicans have left the show, Hlen.  All you mostly find these days are people cheering for capitalism as if they don't know that they also were shafted.  But hey................

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RE: An Inside Job - 3/15/2011 12:30:52 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

I encourage EVERYONE to watch this documentary. It makes the financial meltdown understandable. If it doesn't piss you off and make you want actual consequences for what happened, someone should check your pulse.

I will go so far to say if a moderate (shudders, swallows hard,grits my teeth) REPUBLICAN were to promise concrete action, ie jail for the perps (and even better post election, follow through!), I'd vote for him/her.

These smug bastards should not get away with this.


ETA: I hope this doesn't degenerate to right/left squabbling,please??


Normal human behaviour really......some blokes left to regulate themselves overstretched themselve a bit.....

Sort of like someone who spends too much money on clothes or beer or whatever....and then suddenly thinks..shit...better get a grip on this....

Suppose the only difference is that you and I are obliged to regulate ourselves otherwise we'd end up homeless...whereas the banks are gambling with other people's money.

There is absolutely no corporate governance managing the banks...the same happened with Enron and some organisations here...no corporate governance leading to few requirements on provision of information so anyone reading the accounts of certain firms were left in the dark as to what was actually going on with the finances.

But , just as corporate government was enforced on big business, so it will be with the banks.....

Strange how we never seem to learn the lessons until the horse has bolted....

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RE: An Inside Job - 3/15/2011 12:41:41 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

You hadda link?


No, it's a feature film that I rented from Redbox.

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RE: An Inside Job - 3/15/2011 8:15:09 PM   
EternalHoH


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Did you catch that one deleted scene where the derivatives instructor was talking about how the people of Iceland have attached a new nickname for all the Range Rovers that flooded the place, calling them "Game Overs"?

When you think about it, it took the United States 30 years to end up with an economy monopolized by finance, but Iceland did it less than 10 years.  And they started out from a lower baseline GDP (a slower economy) than we did. We were basically on a deregulatory 'slow burn', and they were on a rocket ride by comparison.



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RE: An Inside Job - 3/16/2011 12:03:34 AM   
hlen5


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Yes I did, and thought it was pretty funny, in an ironic way.

Apparently Iceland drank the "Expert Economists' " kool-aid.

(I guess I'm not the only person that watches the WHOLE DVD!!)

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 3/16/2011 12:05:27 AM >


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RE: An Inside Job - 3/16/2011 12:10:51 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

Did you catch that one deleted scene where the derivatives instructor was talking about how the people of Iceland have attached a new nickname for all the Range Rovers that flooded the place, calling them "Game Overs"?



I hope they didnt try to make a case that Iceland's problems had anything to do with derivatives. If they did, the movie isnt worth the time, because derivatives had next to nothing to do with it. It was the same problem as everywhere else...too much debt that was called with the liquidity crisis.


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RE: An Inside Job - 3/16/2011 12:22:36 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

Did you catch that one deleted scene where the derivatives instructor was talking about how the people of Iceland have attached a new nickname for all the Range Rovers that flooded the place, calling them "Game Overs"?



I hope they didnt try to make a case that Iceland's problems had anything to do with derivatives. If they did, the movie isnt worth the time, because derivatives had next to nothing to do with it. It was the same problem as everywhere else...too much debt that was called with the liquidity crisis.




Watch the movie, it will get you up to speed with the conversation.

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RE: An Inside Job - 3/16/2011 12:29:07 AM   
Termyn8or


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"I hope they didnt try to make a case that Iceland's problems had anything to do with derivatives."

Compared to the "civilised" world, Icelend doesn't have all that much in the way of problems.

T^T

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RE: An Inside Job - 3/16/2011 1:29:45 AM   
ChiDS


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like that documentary? Heres a series of them you should watch Zietgeist and Zietgeist addendum and Zietgeist Moving Forward.

@Termyn8or:  This is where I stand politically, not with Alex Jones.  I'm much too smart to be an extremist. I only use him as an information source.  One of many.


< Message edited by ChiDS -- 3/16/2011 1:30:42 AM >

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RE: An Inside Job - 3/16/2011 1:36:00 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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Does it mention David Li's Gaussian copula formula?

"For five years, Li's formula, known as a Gaussian copula function, looked like an unambiguously positive breakthrough, a piece of financial technology that allowed hugely complex risks to be modeled with more ease and accuracy than ever before. With his brilliant spark of mathematical legerdemain, Li made it possible for traders to sell vast quantities of new securities, expanding financial markets to unimaginable levels.

His method was adopted by everybody from bond investors and Wall Street banks to ratings agencies and regulators. And it became so deeply entrenched—and was making people so much money—that warnings about its limitations were largely ignored.

Then the model fell apart. Cracks started appearing early on, when financial markets began behaving in ways that users of Li's formula hadn't expected. The cracks became full-fledged canyons in 2008—when ruptures in the financial system's foundation swallowed up trillions of dollars and put the survival of the global banking system in serious peril."
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/17-03/wp_quant?currentPage=all

READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE - IT'S VERY INFORMATIVE.



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RE: An Inside Job - 3/16/2011 1:40:54 AM   
hlen5


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HK,

I saved this to read later when I'm more alert. I don't believe Li was mentioned.

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RE: An Inside Job - 3/16/2011 1:44:15 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

One thing I have discovered, is politicians whatever they cling to never punish their controllers. If they do,  they will be shot!  The real target in the arizona shooting was the judge!  of course all the attention went to the woman.  rule number one in propaganda wars; always watch what the opposite what the point at!


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RE: An Inside Job - 3/16/2011 1:44:39 AM   
ChiDS


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You should really watch the documentaries I listed as well.  They not only explain the economic scheme but they also suggest a solution.

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RE: An Inside Job - 3/16/2011 3:30:49 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Does it mention David Li's Gaussian copula formula?

...


Then the model fell apart. Cracks started appearing early on, when financial markets began behaving in ways that users of Li's formula hadn't expected. The cracks became full-fledged canyons in 2008—when ruptures in the financial system's foundation swallowed up trillions of dollars and put the survival of the global banking system in serious peril."
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/17-03/wp_quant?currentPage=all

READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE - IT'S VERY INFORMATIVE.






Sorry, but I smell 'red herring' here.

The article attempts to confine the whole morass into a single math formula of one Chinese quantitative analyst. Everybody else is magically off the hook now.

The Commodity Futures Modernization Act which allowed any sort of derivative the investment banks cared to conjure, with no oversight whatsoever, the credit default swaps (which were actually mentioned in the article, but only as another "victim" of that pernicious math formula, though the author failed to inform us how that formula instructed AIG et al. to seek out and aggressively sell swaps to people who did not even own the underlying CDOs), and a host of other players and causes were effectively swept under the rug with this canard.


We are to have it then, that this magic formula instructed the largest lobby in DC  to go forth and dispel all state's efforts to reign in the rampant abuse and fraud in the predatory subprime market, selling widows in poor neighborhoods refinancing packages that they never even asked for, at rates higher than their good credit would have properly priced? 

Looking at this investigation on predatory lending,

http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawreview/downloads/334/reiss.pdf

I don't see anything about Li's formula here, but certainly lots of other interesting tidbits, not the least of which:

Finally, Standard & Poor’s, Moody’s Investors Services and Fitch
Ratings, the three major bond and securities rating agencies (collectively,
the “privileged raters”), indicated that they will not rate securities
backed by pools of residential mortgages if any of those mortgages
violate their rating guidelines relating to acceptable liability risk
stemming from state predatory lending laws.


Read the whole item carefully, and understand that the last part informs that if a state attempts to pass any law that protects their own citizens against the fraudsters, the rating agencies will not rate the bonds.

That's called racketeering in any other book.

Then we have the banks taking these loans and falsifying paper work to have them classified in a tax exempt pool, whereupon they were collected and sent to the slice and dice of the investment banks' CDO mill, rated AAA by the ratings agencies, even as the underlying loan quality progressively worsened. 

What happened then is that the push for subprimes, however could be gotten, were desperately needed to fulfill these CDOs that were selling like hotcakes, to such extent that some CDO sales occurred even with a few last loans or refinancings yet to be obtained to complete the security. Guess what happens to loan quality now? No matter, still AAA by Moody's or Standard & Poors, getting fees for structuring the package, and then the ratings fees, which they guaranteed for themselves by the invariant AAA ratings. 

All that is a relatively simplified relation of events. It's more complicated and actually nastier than that. And that is before we get to the fraud in many of the foreclosures, the "rocket docket" courts, etc.


OK, I'm ticked off enough now.



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/16/2011 3:39:20 AM >

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