RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/20/2011 11:26:01 AM)

It has always been illegal for state law enforcement to enforce federal laws and Utah isn't defying federal law. As usual you're just making stuff up.



truckinslave -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/20/2011 12:52:50 PM)

Whatever Utah does in defiance of federal law, they are still here illegally and subject to arrest/deportation.
And when the feds do so, I hope they sue Utah for entrapment.

This is nothing more than an ongoing criminal conspiracy. Utah has no more right to help illegal aliens flout US immigration law than it has help citizens evade taxes.



slvemike4u -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/20/2011 1:15:56 PM)

So it is your opinion that Utah has no right infringing on the Feds supremacy where immigration matters are concerned?
So naturally it follows that neither does Arizona......right trukin?



Moonhead -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/20/2011 1:24:08 PM)

Do you really expect to get an answer to that?



slvemike4u -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/20/2011 1:29:53 PM)

Nope...Just wanted to pose the question.Holding up a mirror to the hypocrisy is sort of fun.These guys yell "states rights" very selectively...



Moonhead -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/20/2011 1:35:34 PM)

Yep indeedy.



truckinslave -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/20/2011 8:35:47 PM)

There is a strong legal argument to be made that states have a right to make and enforce laws that parallel those of the federal government. Kidnapping, for only one example, is illegal, in most jurisdictions, under both state and federal statutes.

There is no such argument to be made for state law that contradicts federal law.

Need I remind you that neither SCOTUS nor the appellate court has spoken re Arizona? And that only one relatively small part of the Arizona immigration las was enjoined?



tazzygirl -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/20/2011 9:34:29 PM)

Wow, im slow on the uptake today.

Doesnt the federal government have a guest worker visa program? And wouldnt this bill in Utah run parallel to it?

Obviously I feel like im missing something.



truckinslave -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/20/2011 11:57:37 PM)

quote:

Wow, im slow on the uptake today.

Doesnt the federal government have a guest worker visa program?


I hate to agree with you, tg, really I do [:D]

But, to answer your question:

A. No
B. If the feds did, and if these "workers" were not a part of it, they would still be here illegally.... they would still be illegal, all the Utah guest worker programs to the contrary notwithstanding.
C. If the feds did, and these "workers" were a part of it, there would be no need for Utah to shelter them.

Pretty much a perfect Catch-22, n'est ce pas?

The good news is that I've been posting on as many labor sites boards and such as I can tonight. Utah wants 'em, I want to help at least a million get there. I mean, after all, Utah has just announced that it is a sanctuary state, right? Let 'em give sanctuary...

BTW, to all the libtards out there (not necessarily you, tg, if the shoe doesn't fit don't wear it): this is not a Republican thing. This is a Mormon thing.



popeye1250 -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/21/2011 1:07:05 AM)

It would be impossable to do anyway.
How could they possably do background checks in foreign countries that don't keep records?
All the states are strapped for cash, that would be incredably expensive and just couldn't be done in most cases anyway.
What if one of Utah's "new citizens" killed a U.S. citizen in a DWI? Who do you think is going to get sued? Not the new citizen.



Termyn8or -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/21/2011 1:53:13 AM)

Utah is a very weird state. If you are a Citizen of Utah they will not allow extradition to another state for any reason if they can help it. But if Utah wants you, they will come and get you from Bumfukteria for traffic tickets.

T^T



DomKen -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/21/2011 2:58:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Wow, im slow on the uptake today.

Doesnt the federal government have a guest worker visa program?


I hate to agree with you, tg, really I do [:D]

But, to answer your question:

A. No
B. If the feds did, and if these "workers" were not a part of it, they would still be here illegally.... they would still be illegal, all the Utah guest worker programs to the contrary notwithstanding.
C. If the feds did, and these "workers" were a part of it, there would be no need for Utah to shelter them.

Actually there is a guest worker visa, H-1B. The state of Utah might, depending on the precise law, be able to create a supplemental or parraelel system.



DomKen -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/21/2011 3:00:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Utah is a very weird state. If you are a Citizen of Utah they will not allow extradition to another state for any reason if they can help it. But if Utah wants you, they will come and get you from Bumfukteria for traffic tickets.

T^T

You should read the US Constitution some time. Utah cannot and does not resist extradition orders and does not act unusually in pursuing those wanted in Utah.



truckinslave -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/21/2011 7:33:26 AM)

quote:

Actually there is a guest worker visa, H-1B. The state of Utah might, depending on the precise law, be able to create a supplemental or parraelel system.


If the "worker" is in the H-1B program, the Utah law is redundant, but possibly legal.
If the "worker" is not here legally, the Utah law cannot change that; further, if it conflicts in any way with federal law it is unconstitutional.
This really is brain-dead on the part of Utah, and on so many different levels.



cloudboy -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/21/2011 8:13:25 AM)

quote:

It will draw unwanted illegals to Utah. Let them pay for them


Incarceration and deportation are more expensive.



tazzygirl -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/21/2011 8:31:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Wow, im slow on the uptake today.

Doesnt the federal government have a guest worker visa program?


I hate to agree with you, tg, really I do [:D]



Lets keep the personal attacks to a minimum.

quote:



But, to answer your question:

A. No
B. If the feds did, and if these "workers" were not a part of it, they would still be here illegally.... they would still be illegal, all the Utah guest worker programs to the contrary notwithstanding.
C. If the feds did, and these "workers" were a part of it, there would be no need for Utah to shelter them.

Pretty much a perfect Catch-22, n'est ce pas?

The good news is that I've been posting on as many labor sites boards and such as I can tonight. Utah wants 'em, I want to help at least a million get there. I mean, after all, Utah has just announced that it is a sanctuary state, right? Let 'em give sanctuary...



Is Utah claiming that status as a state? Would think the Arizona ruling would make that almost an impossibility.

quote:



BTW, to all the libtards out there (not necessarily you, tg, if the shoe doesn't fit don't wear it): this is not a Republican thing. This is a Mormon thing.


I would not tend to see this as a republican "thing". If anything, I see it as them potentially shooting themselves in the foot with this one. If, what you say is true, then this has no hopes of withstanding a challenge. The state is making promises to hispanics it cannot keep.



DomKen -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/21/2011 11:03:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
BTW, to all the libtards out there (not necessarily you, tg, if the shoe doesn't fit don't wear it): this is not a Republican thing. This is a Mormon thing.

Actually rethug this is a business thing.
http://www.theutahcompact.com/



Termyn8or -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/21/2011 11:06:01 AM)

"You should read the US Constitution some time"

Why should I ? It means practically nothing in court. Now perhaps yo can explain one ex-Utahian who was wanted in Texas for a violent felony that was not extradited and another flown back from Ohio to finish out a sentence for DUI.

And to get an H1B visa one needs to be educated and have a skill. Would it be racist to say that those who would flee their country of origin to live here "under the gun" might not quite qualify ? If you're illegal here what kind of jobs are available ? They won't be working for Apple, or even sweeping the floor at Ford Motor Company. The won't be working for the government obviously and that's about the only place the unskilled can get a decent job. What does that leave ?

Yup, that's the ticket I think. Keep selling sex, kids having kids, open all the borders and just let everyone in. Will they be happy when there are a billion people here ? Hell let's just start inviting them. Make an H1Z visa, come one come all. We can afford it, we can afford everything. Print the applications in about sixty different languages and put them in every honky tonk, whorehouse and terrorist stronghold in the world.

Sensible immigration policies only work if they are enforced. All this amnesty shit is just that. It's like saying "Shit, we can't do anything about it so let's not even try to enforce the law".

Their actions indicate their intent. They want people here who will settle for less just because it's more than they had.

So let's crank it up to a billion people, then we can really straighten out the middle east. Then the politicians can go retire there, taking all their money with them. Nice plan for the future, "guests" working at weapons factories for $3 an hour, and the rest all over the world spreading "democracy".

Think of all the people we could "help".

T^T



DomKen -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/21/2011 11:07:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"You should read the US Constitution some time"

Why should I ? It means practically nothing in court. Now perhaps yo can explain one ex-Utahian who was wanted in Texas for a violent felony that was not extradited and another flown back from Ohio to finish out a sentence for DUI.

Links?



Termyn8or -> RE: Utah to legalize illegal immigration? (3/21/2011 11:26:15 AM)

You think there's a link for fucking everything don't you. I know the people personally - and, they are WEIRD.

If anything that can't be "proven" by a DomKen approved link is made up or a lie, go ahead and spew another attempted insult.

Oh, and defying federal law on extradition ? Sure they can, want to stop them ? Literally make a federal case out of it. In that case, Texas didn't. Any state can decide not to fight a refusal of extradition. Apparently that's what happened.

Have you ever been at an extradition hearing ? The judge rules. Why ? If the law is so crystal clear why is there a ruling ? Why throw the judge more caseload if he is only there for window dressing ?

Extradition is refused in some cases. One situation is when the person is wanted or being prosecuted in the state where he was aprehended. Once in a while though, there may be another reason which probably CAN be found in a link. When extradition is requested by a state with capital punishment from a state without capital punishment for example.

T^T



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