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The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 9:47:44 AM   
pete11111111


Posts: 13
Joined: 8/17/2004
Status: offline 		What do you think the role of fear is in a Mistress/slave relationship ,and is it different in a Domme/sub relationship ?
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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 10:01:59 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		I don't personally think it should be a major component. I'm a sadist, so I would hope that there would be an element of fear, but as I like to play with masochists, I would also hope that the fear would be mixed with anticipation as well.

I feel that if you are genuinely afraid of your Dominant, then its probably not the ideal situation, however if its a fear generated for short periods (a sort of "I'm going to have so much fun with you tonight. You won't enjoy it, but I will" thing), then its all good.

Just my view of things.


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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 10:15:27 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I happen to like fear for some play.  Yes, I like the reaction, but I don't look at it as something that is a part of the dynamic itself.  I only want it for during the S/m part.  Not the dynamic part. 

I can't say I really see the difference as far as what folks have chosen to label the dynamic.  If your D is a sadist and uses fear as an element during play, I can't say that I find any significance between that and a M who uses fear during play.  I doubt the emotion itself is going to vary depending on the label.


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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 10:19:20 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		It is really not fun to be afraid of your Dom.

Believe me.

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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 10:25:57 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		I'm for 99% adoration and 1% fear.

A lil fear ain't a bad thing for a padawan, or a slave.


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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 11:22:44 AM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline 		Our relationship is more Owner/property or Master/slave, as I consider the path of Mastery to be non-gendered.  We don't do standard gender roles; for starters we're a poly triad, and all three of us are slightly to seriously genderbent.  Our model is more like that of a wolf pack.  I am the most savage, the strongest and the most dominant, so I lead the pack. 

Fear really works for me.  It's tremendously sexy.  My primary partner is pretty much fearless, so I don't get my fix from him, but I do from my secondary.  I'll recycle a few of the things I've written about him to paint a pretty picture.

I think I love him most of all when he is bruised and crying and shaking, cowering under my upraised hand.  His eyes are wide and staring, poised on the trembling edge of fear and worship.  Beautiful victim, helpless object; the imagery is powerful and compelling to me.

When he kneels to me after a beating, his legs unsteady and helpless to rise, his hair covers his face like a river of molten darkness. My fist closes in the thick, silken length of it, pulling him back into the light. His eyes are closed at first, breath coming in shaky little gasps. I rape his lips with a savage kiss, all teeth and tongue and brutal and sensual. His dark eyes open in surprise and his hair tumbles down the pale arch of his back in an obsidian waterfall. He does not yet know what I want. His expression is part fear and part adoration, apprehension and desire equally mingled. For the moment I want only to look at him. I like to look at him because he is mine, and because he is beautiful.

Does he know how lovely he is in those moments, how vulnerable and beautiful? Sometimes I think he does. Other times I am less sure. But my eyes must teach him this lesson, and my hands, running rough and possessive over every inch of him. Being handled this way makes him shiver, but it also makes him smile.  He cries out in pain and terror when I seize him hard, and he cringes at each quick lift of my hand. Shaking and whimpering, he can no longer stand on his own. I must lay him down or support him with steady strength to continue my savage assault on his flesh. And I do continue, because the taste of his fear and his blood is a heady crimson wine, and I am drunk on it. 

There are oceans in his eyes, and sometimes I think I could drown in them. Their salinity is in equal parts of love and fear, adoration and intimidation. Impossible not to plunge into them, to explore the fascination of their depths, and to be caught in their dark undertow. There is no defense against utter surrender.

This is the energy we have together, and it is seriously fucking hot.  It's not entirely a fear based dynamic, because there is also a lot of love and trust there.  I own him and care for him, and while I love to hurt him, I would not harm him.  There is definitely some real fear there however.  It works for us.


< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 3/20/2011 11:23:32 AM >

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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 11:26:40 AM   
sexyred1


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Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

I'm for 99% adoration and 1% fear.

A lil fear ain't a bad thing for a padawan, or a slave.




Yes, I should have elaborated. When I say it is bad to be afraid, I am talking from my experience with someone who went over the line one time too often and I lost my trust in his ability to discern what I really could not handle, vs. just being intense.

I don't say no very often when I am with someone, and if I do, it is because something is just too unacceptable in the pain department (I am not a hard masochist). When I say that something went too far and someone ignores it, then I lose trust in them.

It got to the point where I would not let him put me in restraints because I no longer trusted him to do the right thing.

If you are talking about total trust and adoration, then that 1% is applicable, when it moves to 75%, then we have a major fear problem.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 3/20/2011 11:27:33 AM >

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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 11:30:41 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Grins
I understood where you were coming from Red. There's a lot of difference between the fear I am discussing and that involved in an abusive (as in in a non-BDSM way) relationship.
I think a bit of fear is good. It keeps her on her toes. It keeps her ready to react. It keeps her going, "Wonder what that elusive bastard is thinking of and what agonizingly wondrous terrors he has in store for me?"
Plus, she's always a bit scared of how extreme I can be...laughs...it's all fun and games til Kana pulls out the ol' nail gun.

Then she freaks.
And that's a great kind of fear.


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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 11:35:10 AM   
sexyred1


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Status: offline 		Kana, have I ever told you that you remind of Snidely Whiplash, but in a hot way?

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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 12:44:47 PM   
YSG


Posts: 1001
Joined: 8/6/2010
Status: offline 		I love a little fear play now and then, sure. However, actually being afraid of someone is actually kind of impossible at this point. There is very little anyone can do that hasnt been done to me that hasnt already been done, either by someone else or myself. The thing I've found is, you can hurt me, sure, but I'll survive. Ive been abused. Ive been raped. Ive been beaten, stabbed, shot, overdosed to the point of cardiac arrest, and yet, Im still here. Being submissive is one thing. Actually being afraid of someone? Not gonna happen.

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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 1:08:51 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		I don't want to be involved with someone who I'm inherently afraid of, but it can be really sexy and bonding and make me feel very submissive to do things that scare me, whether in an adrenaline-fueled panic that launches me halfway across the room or in a more reasoned discussion of "I'm really worried about doing x because of y" kind of way. On the flip side, when I've been the Domme or Top, having my partner trust me enough to do things that scare him, make him feel raw and vulnerable and open, things he wouldn't even consider doing for anyone else, really feeds my dominant side in both predatory and nurturing ways.

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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 1:09:37 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pete11111111
What do you think the role of fear is in a Mistress/slave relationship ,and is it different in a Domme/sub relationship ?

As is always true I have no opinion on what generic labels should do or be like. Within the context of my own marriage I have two views -- both of them relative to real life, not a scene since we don't "play". From a dominance standpoint, "fear" is sometimes useful but a very difficult tool to wield well and even under the best of circumstances an unreliable one. When considering the emotional fabric of my marriage, it is loved based so "fear" would pretty much run counter to everything we want. The only thing Carol "fears" is not measuring up to her own standards in terms of being the perfect mate for the man she loves.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 1:25:15 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		After following the interplay between Kana and Red here, lemme rephrase things:

Is it healthy to be unafraid of your D, but afraid of some of the things he/she does?  Is it possible to separate the two?




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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 1:35:19 PM   
Andalusite


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Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		DarkSteven, I guess I wasn't clear enough in my earlier post. In my case, I was able to do things that frightened me *because* I trusted him. Generally I was able to bring my concerns to him, and we'd collaborate on steps to take to ease me through my fears. Once in a while, a particular thing would send me into panic, but he could calm me and help me relax again and feel safe. Sometimes I was still panicky, but obedient. Sometimes, I just felt raw and vulnerable and nervous rather than outright afraid. Sometimes I was startled rather than truly scared. In all of those different situations, I felt safe being open about my feelings, the bad as well as the good.

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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 2:23:16 PM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline 		It's not seen as "normal" for a male to be afraid of a female, and yet in every good fem domme/male sub dynamic I have seen, there is the same slight frission of fear in there somewhere. I think that slight bit of fear is almost mandatory, and I would say especially so in a fem domme/male sub dynamic.

I would say, in general, females are afraid of (bigger, stronger) males, so it is easier for a fem sub to make that leap with her male Dom. With a male sub, it's quite different, especially one who is twice your size. (Seeing the fear in his eyes is much more rewarding.) I would say that it has been my experience that a male sub is much less concerned with being physically hurt (see the above post from YSG) and much more with being emotionally hurt a/o rejected. Which is why it can take a male sub so very long to open up and really trust.

As has been stated earlier, this should be a slight fear....if you are seriously fricking afraid someone is going to abuse you, you are no longer a sub, you are a victim. Get help.






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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 2:54:31 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

After following the interplay between Kana and Red here, lemme rephrase things:

Is it healthy to be unafraid of your D, but afraid of some of the things he/she does?  Is it possible to separate the two?

I believe it is.  You could walk up to clip at any time and ask him if he were afraid of Me and he'd tell you no.  However, there are two situations where he does experience fear.  One is during certain kinds of play.  The other is that he does have a fear (in a sense) of displeasing Me because he is the type of submissive who wants to avoid that due to the way it makes him feel.  It eats him up when there are issues between us.


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The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 3:00:12 PM   
leadership527


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Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I believe it is.  You could walk up to clip at any time and ask him if he were afraid of Me and he'd tell you no.  However, there are two situations where he does experience fear.  One is during certain kinds of play.  The other is that he does have a fear (in a sense) of displeasing Me because he is the type of submissive who wants to avoid that due to the way it makes him feel.  It eats him up when there are issues between us.

This describes Carol and I pretty well too. She might have a fair amount of fear over some commands I might give but that's only to be expected. She's not afraid of me but it is true that she's afraid of some of the commands I give. In our case that isn't BDSM-ey commands, but I don't see how any credible leader wouldn't periodically terrify those following him/her.


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~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/20/2011 3:29:03 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		eerrmm...yeah...he scares the bejesus outta me!! <cringes knowing the kinds of ideas that run through his head on a 24/7 basis>

Is it healthy to have that fear? Yes I think it is. Like he said, it keeps me on my toes, keeps a bit of fire in our relationship. Now if there was an overwhelming amount where I was afraid to even go near him then that would be unhealthy, but I'm aware of his soft side too and that equals it all out.


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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/24/2011 1:38:25 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Some people get off on fear play and others don't. The ones who don't shouldn't have a dynamic that includes it. 

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RE: The role of fear in a M/s relationship. - 3/24/2011 1:47:37 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Some people get off on fear play and others don't. The ones who don't shouldn't have a dynamic that includes it. 

Not really true Des. Our "dynamic includes fear" at least in the sense that LP said. We don't play but there are absolutely commands I give and directions I set which instill fear in her. Honestly, if that weren't true I'd think I wasn't leading.

I mean... in some sense... life includes fear.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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