RE: i've always wondered...

RE: i've always wondered... (Full Version)

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michaelGA2 -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/6/2006 11:12:23 PM)
i guess i'm shut down on this then?

MistyMenthal -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/6/2006 11:12:34 PM)
Or Polls and Random Stupidity[:D] quote: "Don'T KISS Me Just Give Me Some Gas, Misty"

MistressLorelei -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/6/2006 11:12:52 PM)
In all fairness... isn't this off topic discussion? Michael... you are asking us why people in your life don't care... and we cant answer that and it's likely not true... perhaps you should talk to those who know you. Mentioning suicide indicates a cry for help... if they are coming running... they want to help... sounds pretty caring to me.

michaelGA2 -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/6/2006 11:18:03 PM)
not neccesarily, i'm more interested in this as a generlization. not specifically me...i've notice this in alot of people i've talked to...in and out of the lifestyle...it just seems that it's a common occurance.

Gauge -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/6/2006 11:18:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty Sucide is the murder of a life; whether it is done by the person in question or another. Sucide is just self murder. If someone knows a friend or family member or aquanitnace is going to commit sucide then they are as guilty as a person who knows about someone attempting to kill another person and does nothing to stop it. Saying 'good morning' or 'hello' and smiling to a stranger on the street could be all that is needed to stop a person from sucide. That may not be a good enough reason for people to be nice to strangers, but it doesn't hurt. I am not quite sure why you keep replying to me when it doesn't seem that we are that far apart on the subject. Maybe I am missing your intent. I am a bit slow tonight, I am tired.

ModeratorEleven -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/6/2006 11:19:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaelGA2 i guess i'm shut down on this then? No, I'm just suggesting that since you're not getting the answers/understanding you appear to be looking for, that people who discuss this subject more regularly might be a better source for the answers you seek. XI

michaelGA2 -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/6/2006 11:21:36 PM)
they don't know the answers either. LOL

NeedToUseYou -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/6/2006 11:24:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaelGA2 ok, let's make this clear. i am not here to debate suicide. i am asking about the "caring" people that step in...forget about whether suicide is murder or not or that it's right or wrong. let's talk about those that step in. can i make this any clearer? let say, a person is having some life problems and tries to get help from "loved ones" only to be turned away or shrugged off. mention suicide and they come running...WHY? ah, I understand what you are saying now. How come they can't give as much attention to you all the time, as they do if someone cries suicide. Well, probably, if we are talking about you. You are always negative, and needy, that gets old and every thread were someone suggests something it's thrown aside. I assume it's the same for you in real life conversations. So, most likely they are desensitized to your needs, as here on the board, everyone knows your needs and wants because that's all you talk about. I know more about your struggle than anyone else on the board. Probably the same in real life. Why all the focus on them, what have you done for these "others" lately that they should care might be a better question. I have/had a couple friends like this constant depression coupled with no action. Why can't you help me do this or that. And I give them a list of things I've helped them with in the past. And ask what was one thing they've ever done for me. So, I don't care about their problems anymore in general because they never do anything to change their situation. But if they started talking suicide well of course I'd still try to help. Not because I'd want to be a hero, just because I'd hope someone would do the same for me if I were depressed like that. Even if they did that long enough I would stop trying to help them. A person will only try to help another so long concerning anything. Eventually, people get tired of wasting their energy.

Lordandmaster -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/6/2006 11:45:11 PM)
Have you read Sartre about suicide? Read it before you do anything.

MistressLorelei -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/6/2006 11:47:16 PM)
NeedTo is right.. you have asked for help here before and then argued with those offering suggestions which might help you. You see it as criticism.. others see it as helping someone who asked for it/needed it... perhaps your perspective is tainted... and maybe talking to the people in question will provide the answers you are looking for. As far as strangers go... People don't give a second thought to a stranger in a car passing by, but when it crashes, you become concerned for the life inside. It's human nature to want to preserve life if we can.... it's not always about being a hero.

Level -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/7/2006 4:20:53 AM)
michael......... there was a different thread here a couple of weeks ago... about if submissives and dominants were "equal" or not. I stated that they are, in a very real way, because we're all human beings. We all have an inherent value. I might not want to sit at a bar and have a beer with you, but that does not make you of a lesser value. Like you or not, there's a link there, and I'd hate to see you, or pretty much anyone else, take their life. I do feel slightly differently about those with severe and incurable diseases, I.. I guess I understand that, but even then, it makes me sad. And yeah, some intervene because it makes them feel better, or important, or whatever. But most do so because of a genuine concern over another human being. Level

feastie -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/7/2006 4:46:06 AM)
I have a friend, michael, whom I rarely see anymore. She and her family moved away, not all that far, but far enough that we are just not part of each other's daily lives anymore. It's a long distance call for either of us and well, we're both just busy with life. I have a full-time job and full-time kids and she has eight kids. (She only had four when she moved!). We just really are caught up in trying to live our daily lives. However, if I gave the slightest indication to her that I was considering suicide, she'd be here in a flash. Why? Because even though she has her own life and she's busy, she does care about me. Everyone has their trials and tribulations. Sometimes, it's all a person can do just to get through his own day. But, if someone is in real need, she tries to offer help and support in any way she can. Michael, I've read many posts by you. In all of them, you're burdened with a very low level of self-esteem, yet you blame others for your problems. You absolutely must get some help. You must recognize the behaviors that you have that repel people, admit and accept them and change them. It is very possible that you have a condition that requires medication. If that's true, accept that, take the meds and work to put your life in balance. This is up to you, Michael, not other people.

LaMalinche -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/7/2006 5:01:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaelGA2 who really benefits from intervention? In my opinion, interventions DO NOT WORK. The person goes along with the intervention to either 1. comply with the court system (in order to stay out of an institution - and yes the jail system is an institution) or 2. to get those intervening to shut up. Only when a person is well and truly done wallowing in their misery will changes be made in their life. . . anything from stopping substance abuse to finding reasons to continue living, as a couple of examples. The best thing that you can do when someone is being self-destructive is to tell them to go somewhere else and do it, because you do not care to watch. Harsh. . . but it has a better success rate than interventions. Best, LaMalinche Sit vis vobiscum translation - May the force be with you

meatcleaver -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/7/2006 5:21:23 AM)
My guess is that a lot of suicide attempts are a cry for help and not genuine attempts at suicide. I had a friend who commited suicide and she was out having a good time with a group of us on the evening she commited suicide. As far as we could see she was having a laugh with the rest of us and had no problems troubling her. She didn't seem distracted or in anyway detached from reality, she just appeared normal. It still shocks each of us who were out with her that night when we think about it and she didn't leave a note explaining why she did it. It is still a mystery to us and was devastating to her family who thought she was just a normal happy young woman with a bright future to look forward to.

michaelGA2 -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/7/2006 8:32:38 AM)
nevermind

MistressLorelei -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/7/2006 9:50:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaelGA2 nevermind I can't imagine why people would stop wanting to help you.

meatcleaver -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/7/2006 10:01:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaelGA2 nevermind If someone is serious about suicide they'll do it and not worry about the people they leave behind feeling guilty. Those that want help or attention let everyone know they are going to commit suicide and turn it into a drama. It's difficult to respond to someone who is wallowing in self pity which most suicide threats seem to be. People who are recognised as a suicide worry usually have history of depression and mental illness and have you ever tried to get anyone to respond while in the middle of a fit of depression? On the whole it seems rather pointless and I think the stats bear me out.

NeedToUseYou -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/7/2006 10:48:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei quote: ORIGINAL: michaelGA2 nevermind I can't imagine why people would stop wanting to help you. My guess is that the attention was focused on him, instead of the other people we know nothing of, that only care when another person we know nothing about cries out that they are going to commit suicide. My suggestion michael if you are going to bring up a topic and want it to be general as in everyone assuming it's not you, you're really talking about. The I have a friend who has a problem thing works best for distracting your test group. Then it won't be upsetting when people give answers because they won't be really talking about you.

champagnewishes -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/7/2006 11:38:27 AM)
I have always been an advocate for an individual's right to make their own choice whether they wish to live or die and to be able to act upon it. I have heard many valid reasons why one would choose to end their own life. I have also heard some very lame excuses. This implies that suicide has criteria, which then involves the issue of who determines someone's right to take their own life. And then there are extenuating circumstances such as one's religious belief not allowing them to seek medical attention. IMHO suicide should involve one person…you. The minute you talk about it to someone else, it is no longer suicide. I agree with NeedToUseYou’s summation that suicide is too easy not to get it right the first time. Failed suicides and talking about plans of suicide are cries for help…not the action of someone who most certainly wants to die. I have “intervened” on someone’s threat to commit suicide that I did not care about. Why? Because he told me he was going to do it, which by no choice of my own, made me involved. It was of my opinion that his so-called reasons for doing so were excuses and I pointed it out. He got no sympathy from me. I didn’t beg him not to follow through with his plans. I think I even vocalized my irritation at having been the one he confided in. I may have even mentioned that he should do what a great many do and get help. I don’t deal well with drama. I swallowed a bottle of pills one night. I knew it was questionable as to whether it was enough to actually kill me but it was all I had. I didn’t tell anyone I was going to do it and I didn’t tell my roommate in the next room that I had done it once the last pill went down. I sought help the next day and other than my therapist, this is the first I have ever mentioned it to anyone because it really had nothing to do with anyone but me. The fact that it was a “failed suicide” indicated to me that it was a cry for help to myself…and so it was up to me, NOT anyone else, to do something about it. Since that time, I have become even a harder ass about suicide. From first hand experience I have no problem telling someone either to do it or seek help…it’s your choice…just quit whining about it. You’re an adult, handle it as one. And for future reference, it takes more than 76 vicodin and 80 Tylenol PMs to kill oneself. (I’m not into leaving blood behind for someone else to have to clean up)

michaelGA2 -> RE: i've always wondered... (5/7/2006 11:56:48 AM)
it also takes more than 90 vicadins, 200 aspirins and 40 valiums to do it too. that was about 15 years ago and i never told anyone about that one, just called out sick and lay there until it worked it's way through my system...hoping it was enough.

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