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i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 9:00:55 PM   
michaelGA2


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Status: offline 		i've always wondered why others come to someone's aid only after that person turns to suicide any other time, they wouldn't give you the time of day or even a friendly smile...but mention that you want to end it, they come out of the woodwork. why is that?

and, why is it that this is frowned upon? shouldn't someone that is unhappy with life be allowed to end it? and why is it that people often call this "the coward's way out"?  wouldn't it be easier to either leave these people to themselves or assist them in it? also, do these people that "intervene" do it to actually help or just do it to make themselves feel better?

who really benefits from intervention?


< Message edited by michaelGA2 -- 5/6/2006 9:38:59 PM >

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 9:51:24 PM   
michaelGA2


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Status: offline 		ok, maybe this is alittle too deep for here. forget i asked

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 9:58:42 PM   
FootQueen


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Status: offline 		*giggling* perhaps you have people now hesitant - not knowing whether to reply or not.....LMAO.... got them in a catch 22.....

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:07:16 PM   
slaverosebeauty


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Status: offline 		Guilt. People feel guilt if someoen they know tries to commit sucide and on some deep level everyone around that person feels a bit of responsibilty towards that person getting to that 'place' wher they felt that life was no longer worth living.

Those who intervene at times give the sucidal perosn hope or show that someone does care, if that;s why they were trying to commit sucide in the first place. If they thought no one cared or would miss them, then someone comes along and says tha tthey do care, it can wake up that sucidal person or at least give them other options.

Ok, enough deep meaningfull thought, now my head hurts.

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:08:09 PM   
FelinePersuasion


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Status: offline 		It's cowardly because of all the other lives of people left behind it distroys. My room mates brother killed himself at 21 and she never got over it.

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:13:46 PM   
michaelGA2


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Status: offline 		as a general rule: people who claim to care for someone that is concidering suicide only show it "when" that person makes the decision...not before...so what is the point in all of this "caring"?

as for those left behind, generally, they only show it as stated above. and then it's all about them and not the person who either makes the attempt or is successful...in my experience.


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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:21:18 PM   
Gauge


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Status: offline 		Suicide is a very permanent solution to a temporary problem. I think it is a very human response to be concerned when someone talks of suicide... after all, it is a cry for help.

If someone really wants to end their life, they will. There is nothing that anyone can do to stop them. Those that intervene don't do it to feel good about themselves, although that is a byproduct of helping someone in trouble, they do it out of genuine concern.

People call suicide the "Cowards way out" because it is easier to end your life than it is to live it. Living takes courage, determination and faith. If someone only sees one way out then they have not looked at solutions very well. Most problems can be solved. Some problems cannot, but you can learn to cope with them. This is not some psychobabble response, this is a fact. Humans can adapt to some very extreme things. Strength to carry on is what will get us through the tough times.

I have weathered many a severe battle in my life. I have thought, many times, that I would be better off dead. I also realize that I am not willing to allow the situations in my life rule me. I have strength that I have found in the times of my most profound weakness. I am not sure where it comes from... some might call it God and that is fine. I am sure He has His hand in there somewhere. But the ability to pull one's self up out of a seemingly dead end problem is the greatest feeling, because you know that you rose above the storm and lived through it.

I have heard you ask things like this before if I am thinking of the right Michael and please, if you need help, reach out to someone. There are reasons why people are there to reach out to... one of them is that they care.

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:29:16 PM   
slaverosebeauty


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Status: offline 		Generally, people who talk about sucide are considering it.


If a person thinks of committing sucide, they are not thinking of others, which many consider selfish, more its an after thought, as things or what they are facing are hard to cope with and they do not see any other way to handle a situtation. Things are not always as black and white as most would like to think they are.

Would you call it sucide if a person was dieing of a brain tumour and they put their face down in a pilow and suffocated themself?? or would you call that mercy, as they were in a lot of pain and it was a faster way of death than to live life that was below standard??

Would you consider it murder if a person in a vetagative state asked to die [in their will]?? or would it be 'mercy'??

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:30:47 PM   
michaelGA2


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Status: offline 		i am the same michael and nothing's really changed. same shit, different day. and to reach out to someone, to me, seems to lend to making THEM feel better, not me...but that's life. in all honesty, very very few people would truly miss me when i'm gone. i've known this for a long time. but hey, whatever...i guess.

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:31:27 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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From: None of your business
Status: offline 		Generally if someone is telling others about commiting suicide or fails in suicide it's the person trying to get attention. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find effective ways to kill ones self. Bridges are quite effective, bullets, etc.... It'd take a very poor suicide plan not to be able to accomplish a task so easy 100's do it by accident everyday. So, really doing a failed suicide attempt is a person saying to everyone else, "I really want someone to help/listen/fix me". So this is probably why people start giving alot of time paying attention to someone who did such a thing.

The few people that I've encountered that have a history of failed "suicide attempts" didn't really attempt to increase there chances of a successful suicide as they highly publicized the forthcoming "attempt" and then tried in a way that was unlikely to actually kill them. Like taking a bunch of aspirin, then calling there loved ones to tell them they are killing themselves after going on and on beforehand with their threats.

Why are thinking about it or something?

If you are you really need to just skip the drama and go talk to a psychiatrist. As it's a mental issue so deep that people use their own life as a means of getting attention from others.

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:35:42 PM   
michaelGA2


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Status: offline 		that's all well and good...but i'm trying to understand what the deal is with intervention and why people do that...the suicide aspect is not the issue here. we all know the various stories arouind that...let's look at the othere side here.

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:36:23 PM   
slaverosebeauty


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From: Cali
Status: offline 		michaelGA2, ok.. what is this about??

Everyone on this planet is connected to every other perosn by no more than 7 other people in between.

Sucide is one answer, its not the best, but it is an answer, a final answer. It does leave more questions for everyone else who knew that person or hears about it later.  

Reaching out to someone is like asking for help and saying that you see more than one answer to a situation or are at least willing to consider other answers.

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:44:24 PM   
slaverosebeauty


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Status: offline 		Why do people interviene?? Same reason that people intervene if they know someone is going to a commit murder, its the right thing to do.

Sucide is self murder. If you know someone is going to attempt to commit sucide, its just liek if you knew someone was going to kill another preson, if you do nothing, you are accessory to murder, whether it me sucide or the murder of another person.

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:46:22 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

that's all well and good...but i'm trying to understand what the deal is with intervention and why people do that...the suicide aspect is not the issue here. we all know the various stories arouind that...let's look at the othere side here.


Well, why do people try to stop another from commiting suicide. Quick answer is everyones been depressed, everyone at least has casually thought of suicide, some more than others. Generally, though everyone eventually gets past it, and learns that life is better than death. So, people caring, or trying to talk another out of it, understand to some degree what's happening. So, my assumption for example is that know one really wants to die, at least when improvement over the current situation is possible.  Suicide for the relatively young is more a problem with being able see the possiblity of a better future. It's possible for nearly everyone, I mean if your 96 with a terminal disease maybe not. But if your 40 and just unhappy well, it's highly possible five years from now anyone could be in a completely different position. And I'm a firm believer that present situations have little bearing on ones future potential. The problem occurs when people accept their present reality as a permanent state of existance.

No one wants to die, but people don't want to be unhappy either. The answer is and I think that is where most people come from is finding out how to get from a depressing existance to at least a somewhat happy life. That's a mental block, it has nothing to do with being alive.

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:49:44 PM   
michaelGA2


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Joined: 4/26/2006
Status: offline 		i don't see it that way, killing someone else is taking a life without consent, that is wrong. while taking one's onw life is consentual, so there is a noticeable difference.

but this is still going back to the suicide itself. i would like to know is, where were these people before it came to this decision? they seem to only show up WHEN it is either discussed or WHEN it is actually happening. it always seems they are attempting to be a hero and thus making themselves look and feel better. lets forget about the person wanting to do it and look at the person wanting to stop it, ok?


< Message edited by michaelGA2 -- 5/6/2006 10:54:46 PM >

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:51:45 PM   
Gauge


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quote:

If a person thinks of committing sucide, they are not thinking of others, which many consider selfish, more its an after thought, as things or what they are facing are hard to cope with and they do not see any other way to handle a situtation. Things are not always as black and white as most would like to think they are.


I would agree that things are not always black and white... but suicide is an extreme step to solving a problem.

quote:

 Would you call it sucide if a person was dieing of a brain tumour and they put their face down in a pilow and suffocated themself?? or would you call that mercy, as they were in a lot of pain and it was a faster way of death than to live life that was below standard??  


This is a different subject than the original one. Medically assisted suicide is something that I personally have a little problem with, but I do understand why those people choose to do that. I have seen people in pain. People I loved. I wanted the pain to end. A perfectly healthy person or one suffering from mental illness (particularly mental illness) wanting to end their life isn't thinking clearly. They need help through this time in their life. I stated before, if someone really wants to do it, they will and you won't stop them.

quote:

Would you consider it murder if a person in a vetagative state asked to die [in their will]?? or would it be 'mercy'??


You are talking of something entirely different again. Advanced Medical Directives are stringently worded documents that contain certain medical criteria which, when met, the person with Power of Attorney and the family can see to it that the person's wishes are carried out. This is not a suicide because of losing your job or thinking someone doesn't care... it is carrying out the persons requests that they made before the medical requirements were met to terminate life support. Totally different animals there. Totally.

< Message edited by Gauge -- 5/6/2006 10:54:01 PM >

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:54:38 PM   
MistressLorelei


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Status: offline 		On the internet... it's difficult to pretend to care about every stranger you encounter.. but when you notice that one is in pain... people will often want to help that person.  One cries for help, another comes running.  In real life... perhaps you don't always see that others do care... because your vision is so distorted from feeling sorry for yourself.  Sometimes people don't know what to say, so they remain quiet in fear of making things worse.  One could say it's you who doesn't care if you can't ask those close to you for help

It's easier to attempt suicide than it is to get the help needed to be happy with yourself.... that's why it's said to be the coward's way out.  Help is out there... everyone needs help sometimes.   Be well.

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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 10:59:24 PM   
slaverosebeauty


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Status: offline 		Sucide is the murder of a life; whether it is done by the person in question or another. Sucide is just self murder.

If someone knows a friend or family member or aquanitnace is going to commit sucide then they are as guilty as a person who knows about someone attempting to kill another person and does nothing to stop it.

Saying 'good morning' or 'hello' and smiling to a stranger on the street could be all that is needed to stop a person from sucide. That may not be a good enough reason for people to be nice to strangers, but it doesn't hurt.



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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 11:04:38 PM   
michaelGA2


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Status: offline 		ok, let's make this clear. i am not here to debate suicide. i am asking about the "caring" people that step in...forget about whether suicide is murder or not or that it's right or wrong. let's talk about those that step in. can i make this any clearer?

let say, a person is having some life problems and tries to get help from "loved ones" only to be turned away or shrugged off. mention suicide and they come running...WHY?


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RE: i've always wondered... - 5/6/2006 11:06:40 PM   
ModeratorEleven


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Status: offline 		Perhaps this is a question better asked on a forum that deals with suicide, instead of one dedicated to BDSM?

XI

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 5/6/2006 11:07:10 PM >

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