RE: Don't Rush In --

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VaguelyCurious -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 4:23:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep the problem isn't with the questions, it's with the extreme expectations people place on something like this. We disagree. I think what got my back up was the first question - the 'what kind of submissive are you?' one. I'm gonna quote my SO here - her real profile says something about how she wants her natural dynamic with a person to depend on that person. I reject the notion that someone - particularly someone new - is 'a service sub' or 'a 24/7 sub' (or that if they say 'I'm not a service/24/7/whatever sub', that I couldn't eventually find someone they'd want to do those things for). quote: and yeah there's a way that real relationships work, but that doesn't mean that people should hold all of their thoughts UNTIL they get into something with someone. people think about this kind of stuff every day; it's only "bad" when it's presented all together. People have half-formed thoughts about this stuff all the time, sure. And then when they meet someone, they dismiss the bits of thought that turn out not to be useful. You can call it inverted-comma-bad if you want to be sarcastic, but you're kidding yourself if you think people don't put more weight on things when they're written down formally in a list. And in other news, I bought vanilla ice cream the other day, and was considering buying some Kendal Mint Cake to mix in. Thought of you [8D]

Kana -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 6:37:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gungadin09 But they should start out knowing that internet porn isn't a realistic model for submissive behavior. Whaaaaaaaaaa? Have I been wrong on these years? Someone, please, say it ain't so.

porcelaine -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 7:00:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious We disagree. I think what got my back up was the first question - the 'what kind of submissive are you?' one. I'm gonna quote my SO here - her real profile says something about how she wants her natural dynamic with a person to depend on that person. I reject the notion that someone - particularly someone new - is 'a service sub' or 'a 24/7 sub' (or that if they say 'I'm not a service/24/7/whatever sub', that I couldn't eventually find someone they'd want to do those things for). This is one of the reasons I elected to rephrase the questions from my perspective. However, I know where the author is coming from and why it's written that way. I addressed that earlier by noting that she had an old school approach and I didn't believe that was representative of how most view their submission in the present day. When I started that is the angle I worked from and one I've always used. On the other hand, you raised an important point about adaptability and the likelihood of one behaving differently based on the dominant party, which was something I mentioned in my response. While I believe there are striking merits to the model she presents, I realize it isn't everyone's cup of tea. Nor do I fully attribute it to the level of proficiency I've attained. quote: You can call it inverted-comma-bad if you want to be sarcastic, but you're kidding yourself if you think people don't put more weight on things when they're written down formally in a list. Emphasizing and giving attention to a subject and actual execution aren't one in the same. People compose lists all the time. And quite a few them go unfinished. Writing it down is only half the battle. It's having the sticktoitiveness to maintain the positions mentioned for some duration that is generally the problem. Namaste, ~porcelaine

stellauk -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 7:39:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep 1. What kind of submissive are you? An individual type of submissive, different to others. quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep 2. What do you have to offer a Dominant? Find me a Dominant and I'll tell you. I assume that Dominants are individuals too. quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep If you had to put yourself up for sale on an auction site, what would the description be like? I am experienced... experienced by many people, and sometimes they don't forget. quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep 3. What are your wants and needs? Generally? Acceptance, communication, understanding, compatibility... oh and salmon. There must be salmon. Otherwise the deal's off. quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep 4. Do you have a BDSM activity checklist? Nope, and no instruction manual either. i've yet to hear a Dominant ask 'How would you like to play today? What activities would you like me to do to you?' I tend to go along with their checklist. It's what gives them the warm fuzzies. quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep 5. What type of relationship are you looking for? I'm not looking for a relationship. I look for people and start out with friendship. Generally when me and the other person wants a relationship, we take it from there. I find trying to work out a relationship when there's no one in sight is like trying to have a conversation when there's no one in sight. I genuinely can't tell you what sort of relationship I'm looking for until I can see someone in my radar that I want to be in a relationship with. quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep 6. What are your long term goals and dreams? I could write something here but it could change next week. I make it up as I go along. A former domme once said that the song 'Ruby Tuesday' could have been written about me. Also I find that life is too unpredictable to get too attached to goals and dreams. It's better to be flexible, and to focus on what happy memories you can create and share with other people. Because that is all what you leave behind when you die.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 8:07:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious her real profile says something about how she wants her natural dynamic with a person to depend on that person. I reject the notion that someone - particularly someone new - is 'a service sub' or 'a 24/7 sub' (or that if they say 'I'm not a service/24/7/whatever sub', that I couldn't eventually find someone they'd want to do those things for). i can see your point here, because that's basically what i say all the time, too. for me, a lot of it depends on the guy, too. but i also know that i have strengths in some areas, aspirations in others, and weaknesses in others, and i still don't really believe it's bad to think about those. =p someone new might go looking for what those names mean, and find that there are all sorts of ways to participate in a dynamic, when before they thought there was only one. people use labels because they DO mean something; i say i'm service-oriented because people have an idea of what it means. hopefully people will illuminate that meaning by talking to the person who uses it and figuring out what it means to them, but still, those labels do have meanings or else no one would bother calling themselves subs/Doms/slaves/Masters/WHATEVER at all. =p and there are plenty of people who don't, but there are also boatloads of others who do. i have met people who didn't inspire me to feel servicey in the least, and those who inspire me to want to fly as far into submission as i possibly could -- those differences in people don't change the overall dynamic that i'm looking for. sometimes someone does come along who makes none of that important, but i guess i don't like the assumption that someone who makes a list is automatically going to miss something because they're inordinately attached to their list. again, i still believe that the issue isn't with the list, it's with the way people react to them. the world doesn't end if i don't get to the very bottom of my dance drills list. the world doesn't end if i decide i don't want to dance anymore, period. but writing those moves down still helped me focus on them in different ways. =p and yeah, people have half-formed thoughts about a lot of those, because, until you really meet a person and get into a dynamic with them, it's pretty hard to flesh out an idea all the way on your own. there are people who try to, and those are the people who generally get so attached to their lists that they can't jive with "real life." again, i believe that isn't really a problem with listing, so much as it is with people forming unrealistic expectations. and seriously -- look at a thread where any male sub posts looking for a female Dominant -- what do people ask him? "what do you have to offer to a Domme?" that's question #2 on this list, and no one blows a gasket over that. =p i mean seriously -- i just saw someone ask that question in the introductions board, too. =p and then people will usually ask the guy "well do you know what your wants and needs are, and how would they relate to a potential Domme's wants and needs?" -- that's basically #3. they usually then tell him "most female Dominants want something besides just kinky sex and playing, so what are you looking for?" that's #4. =p these questions get asked with all seriousness to MALE submissives, why should female submissives be excused from dealing with them? or are we admitting that there's a double standard? =p quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious And in other news, I bought vanilla ice cream the other day, and was considering buying some Kendal Mint Cake to mix in. Thought of you [8D] AWESOME! i'll be there within the hour. ^_^

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 8:30:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine Emphasizing and giving attention to a subject and actual execution aren't one in the same. People compose lists all the time. And quite a few them go unfinished. Writing it down is only half the battle. It's having the sticktoitiveness to maintain the positions mentioned for some duration that is generally the problem. I think it's the sticktoitiveness (lovely word [:)]) that I'm objecting to, though - I don't necessarily see that as a good thing. I think I'm just a really big fan of flexibility - of seeing how all the pieces of you fit with all the pieces of another person, rather than deciding on an ideal and having the sticktoitiveness to hold out and wait for that. And the original questions (not so much your suggested alterations, which leave a lot more wiggle room) feel kind of like they're restricting flexibility (or at least they do to me). quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep i don't like the assumption that someone who makes a list is automatically going to miss something because they're inordinately attached to their list. Woah woah woah, I didn't say that. I said make the list, those things are good things to think about, but be prepared to reject them if necessary, otherwise you could be closing yourself off - not that you automatically will be. quote: and seriously -- look at a thread where any male sub posts looking for a female Dominant -- what do people ask him? "what do you have to offer to a Domme?" that's question #2 on this list, and no one blows a gasket over that. =p C'mon, Miss Peep, that's not quite the same thing. They aren't asking those questions in a reflective way, they're asking them because the implication is that he doesn't have anything to offer, that he's selfish and sex-motivated and doesn't care about his partner's needs, and that he'd better shape up if he wants female attention - they're insults in that context, not questions. I am seriously going to have to pop to the shops and get mint cake today. Want. So much.

stellauk -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 8:33:34 AM)
Wow.. another thread I've misunderstood and posted on. Apologies.

ranja -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 9:56:09 AM)
you rushed in stella, didn't you... you need a list: 1 what kind of thread is this? 2 what do i have to offer to this topic? 3.... what was next?

porcelaine -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 11:07:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious I think it's the sticktoitiveness (lovely word [:)]) that I'm objecting to, though - I don't necessarily see that as a good thing. I think I'm just a really big fan of flexibility - of seeing how all the pieces of you fit with all the pieces of another person, rather than deciding on an ideal and having the sticktoitiveness to hold out and wait for that. And the original questions (not so much your suggested alterations, which leave a lot more wiggle room) feel kind of like they're restricting flexibility (or at least they do to me). Thanks doll. :) But that's the thing. Sticktoitiveness isn't commonplace. From my observation you encounter those that are overly flexible because they can't make up their mind and others that are too darned rigid and averse to change. It isn't the fact that the lists are made that causes the problem. It's the reality of what that implies when the person gets it that many have failed to reconcile. The pivotal, "oh hell, it's what I want, now what?" I'm of the belief that while they're composed with sincerity (which runs along a scale) there's a modest undercurrent of doubt that's never addressed. Because in all truth, if you really want to submit you shouldn't have outright conniptions when the other person expects you to do what you've said. For additional examples, reference Fetlife threads a to friggin' z in groups 1-100. [:D] What you're witnessing is the concept of flexibility being turned on its head. They're not flexible in mate selection. They're making compromises or contorting to achieve a goal that eventually leads to problems due to an omission of clarity in partner choice; and the absence of perseverance in adhering to the truths unearthed upon reflection. In other words, they have an idea of what they want and possibly need. But lack the discipline to bring it to fruition. The blueprint is meaningless if the architect never picks it up. quote: I am seriously going to have to pop to the shops and get mint cake today. Want. So much. Oh you cruel girl! I'm battling an immense desire to bake something. Anything! Your subliminal programming (cause it's all your fault) will have me breaking out the Silpat momentarily! I'd better get these buns dominated really quick. [;)] Namaste, ~porcelaine

stellauk -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 11:20:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ranja you rushed in stella, didn't you... you need a list: 1 what kind of thread is this? 2 what do i have to offer to this topic? 3.... what was next? LOL

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 11:33:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious C'mon, Miss Peep, that's not quite the same thing. They aren't asking those questions in a reflective way, they're asking them because the implication is that he doesn't have anything to offer, that he's selfish and sex-motivated and doesn't care about his partner's needs, and that he'd better shape up if he wants female attention - they're insults in that context, not questions. I am seriously going to have to pop to the shops and get mint cake today. Want. So much. i'm not sure i believe that's true in every case. i think a lot of times people are trying to re-orient a person's thinking -- he shows up thinking "i want kink and sex, yeah!" and they redirect him to a way that might make him more successful. i mean, you'd have to poll every person who ever replies to guys like that, but i think, in most cases, people are actually trying to give sound advice. i'm a pretty big fan of flexibility, too (and modularity) -- changeability is important if you're going to get by in life, because, if there's one thing life does, it CHANGES. i don't see any of this as being counter to flexibility though. =p quote: ORIGINAL: ranja you rushed in stella, didn't you... you need a list: 1 what kind of thread is this? 2 what do i have to offer to this topic? 3.... what was next? har har ^_^ quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine They're not flexible in mate selection. They're making compromises or contorting to achieve a goal that eventually leads to problems due to an omission of clarity in partner choice; and the absence of perseverance in adhering to the truths unearthed upon reflection. In other words, they have an idea of what they want and possibly need. But lack the discipline to bring it to fruition. The blueprint is meaningless if the architect never picks it up. very well said! i kinda like how this thread has spun off into another direction altogether. ^_^

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 1:56:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine What you're witnessing is the concept of flexibility being turned on its head. They're not flexible in mate selection. They're making compromises or contorting to achieve a goal that eventually leads to problems due to an omission of clarity in partner choice; and the absence of perseverance in adhering to the truths unearthed upon reflection. In other words, they have an idea of what they want and possibly need. But lack the discipline to bring it to fruition. The blueprint is meaningless if the architect never picks it up. See, I get what you're saying, and I don't mean to say that lack of clarity of thought/desire doesn't cause people problems, because obviously it does - reference, as you say, Fetlife groups 1-100 [8D] All I meant was that determining in isolation that you want one particular thing only is cutting you off from other possible things, and that people sometimes feel like because they have a list they ought to stick to it (exercise sticktoitiveness, you might say [8D]) when they'd do better to go with the flow. I didn't mean everyone, and I didn't mean all the time. quote: Oh you cruel girl! I'm battling an immense desire to bake something. Anything! Your subliminal programming (cause it's all your fault) will have me breaking out the Silpat momentarily! I'd better get these buns dominated really quick. [;)] Why don't you bake some fresh, crusty, magical bread? Wholemeal flour, yeast, salt, water, maybe a handful of olives or linseeds tossed in - what's to resist? [8D][8D] quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep i mean, you'd have to poll every person who ever replies to guys like that, but i think, in most cases, people are actually trying to give sound advice. Well you've got more faith in humanity than I have. Honestly, I think the AAM women (myself wholly included) are a catty bunch, and I wouldn't rely too much on our good intentions when men lack social skills. I also think by now most people type that stuff out on rote, because it's what you're supposed to say. But hey, maybe I'm just grouchy...

porcelaine -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 2:36:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious All I meant was that determining in isolation that you want one particular thing only is cutting you off from other possible things, and that people sometimes feel like because they have a list they ought to stick to it (exercise sticktoitiveness, you might say ) when they'd do better to go with the flow. I didn't mean everyone, and I didn't mean all the time. Oh you mean folks like me? [:D] Did you read my reality check the other day? It was priceless. I would truly love to maintain that notion. But it would appear it's gone bye bye. And going with the flow is what got me into this predicament! :) quote: Why don't you bake some fresh, crusty, magical bread? Wholemeal flour, yeast, salt, water, maybe a handful of olives or linseeds tossed in - what's to resist? [8D][8D] I love fresh bread and I can see myself making up a loaf right now with a lovely cheese as an accompaniment. Which is why I'm sitting at the laptop instead of kneading dough. My head is not in the right space to indulge. But when it is I'll have some in your honor. [;)] Namaste, ~porcelaine

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 2:51:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine Oh you mean folks like me? Did you read my reality check the other day? It was priceless. I would truly love to maintain that notion. But it would appear it's gone bye bye. And going with the flow is what got me into this predicament! :) Reality check? Whut whut? I don't keep up with this place as well as I should do. What have I missed? quote: My head is not in the right space to indulge. But when it is I'll have some in your honor. Well I look forward to benefitting from your Bread Karma!

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 3:40:26 PM)
you know, porce, you could make it and then mail it to me. ^_^ haha bread-making is on my list of things to learn. ^.~

porcelaine -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 4:08:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Reality check? Whut whut? I don't keep up with this place as well as I should do. What have I missed? It should be on your feed today. quote: Well I look forward to benefitting from your Bread Karma! Most definitely. I'll pull it out of my tush in due time. [;)] quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep you know, porce, you could make it and then mail it to me. ^_^ haha bread-making is on my list of things to learn. ^.~ As if I could tell you no! Here's a very easy one to make. It does turn out quite tasty. The online classes and step by step recipes at King Arthur Flour are very good for beginners. And you can always ask me questions when they arise. :) Namaste, ~porcelaine

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 4:17:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine It should be on your feed today. Ah - the O&P people on FL kind of skeer me (present company excepted, of course [8D]) so I saw the group and didn't read when it came up on my feed... I didn't say going with the flow was always the right thing to do... Plus, everyone ends up in predicaments now and then, from the crazy stick-to-the-lists-like-they're-gospel people to the plans?-what-are-plans? people. Not that I'm saying you're either of those things [;)] quote: And you can always ask me questions when they arise. :) Heehee! You made a funny! [:D][:D]

January -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 5:19:02 PM)
quote: Taking the time to really know yourself and what you want from a relationship will make you better able to handle a D/s relationship and less likely to have your heart broken. I'm not real fond of the list. I don't even agree with the intro part, which I quote above, which sets up the list as being important. BDSM relationships are relationships, first and foremost. They are fluid, tentative at first, exploratory, and involve TWO people (or more). This unilateral thinking about who you are as a sub, without a real Dom in the picture, is pretty much sterile and useless. Like sexyred said, finding out what movies you both like is far more important than the kink. Sure, self-awareness is good. But this list does nothing to mitigate the dangerous romanticizing of D/s. Only common sense will. January

porcelaine -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 5:36:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Ah - the O&P people on FL kind of skeer me (present company excepted, of course [8D]) so I saw the group and didn't read when it came up on my feed... Aww come to the dark side. We have cookies. grins quote: I didn't say going with the flow was always the right thing to do... Plus, everyone ends up in predicaments now and then, from the crazy stick-to-the-lists-like-they're-gospel people to the plans?-what-are-plans? people. Not that I'm saying you're either of those things Predicaments can be delectable dalliances on occasion. I'm not immune to dipping a toe when properly motivated. Can you see where that logic is leading? lol In all seriousness I'd probably get myself into a whole heap of stuff if I weren't so controlled. Luckily I have good influences like you around. [:D] Namaste, ~porcelaine

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/23/2011 5:58:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine Aww come to the dark side. We have cookies. grins Ah, but so do I! Along with crisps and quality street. Picnic w/ CreepyStalker tomorrow! :D quote: Luckily I have good influences like you around. [:D] Haha! It's funny, you saying that - I was just thinking that you've been a big influence on one of my relationships - reading your posts has deefinitely changed my way of thinking about some things. [:)]

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