Federal Profit (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


tazzygirl -> Federal Profit (3/22/2011 6:02:31 PM)

WASHINGTON — Profit at the Federal Reserve banks soared to a record $82 billion last year, a windfall for taxpayers that also underscores the depth of the Fed’s continued involvement in the nation’s financial markets.

The 12 regional banks that make up the Federal Reserve system held $2.4 trillion in government debt, mortgage-backed securities and other investments at the end of 2010, according to a combined financial statement the Fed published Tuesday. The banks transfer almost all of their profits to the Treasury Department. The $79 billion received by the government this year is a 66 percent increase over last year’s payment of $47.5 billion.

The Fed transferred roughly $25 billion a year in the decade before the crisis.

“It’s interest that the Treasury didn’t have to pay the Chinese,” Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke told Congress in January.

The extraordinary results reflect the unique business model of a central bank. The Fed pays for its investments by creating new money, with the result that the return on those investments, after expenses, is pure profit.

The Fed has greatly expanded the scale of its investments since 2008 as it sought to rescue the banking industry and spur growth, roughly tripling the size of its balance sheet from about $800 billion at the end of 2007.

The financial statements show that the Fed earned about $3.5 billion last year from the Maiden Lane subsidiaries it created to buy assets from the investment bank Bear Stearns and the insurance company American International Group.

The Fed also made $45 billion from its portfolio of roughly $1 trillion in mortgage-backed securities, amassed to keep mortgage loans cheap and available.

And it made $26 billion from its holdings of $1.1 trillion in government debt. That part of the portfolio has continued to expand in 2011, as the Fed pursues a plan to purchase $600 billion in Treasury bonds to hasten recovery.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/business/economy/23fed.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss




slvemike4u -> RE: Federal Profit (3/22/2011 6:22:11 PM)

If I understand all of that.....that's good news.
But am I wrong in being troubled by the effect on the overall economy of the Fed "creating new money",isn't that likely to have some effect(someone smarter than me would need to point out what effect)that we will come to regret?




tazzygirl -> RE: Federal Profit (3/22/2011 6:25:04 PM)

Im not sure of that myself, mike.




slvemike4u -> RE: Federal Profit (3/22/2011 6:27:33 PM)

Well now I feel better about myself....what with the high regard I have for you and your intelligence[:)].




tazzygirl -> RE: Federal Profit (3/22/2011 6:29:30 PM)

lol... i told you we were cool... no need for all that!




slvemike4u -> RE: Federal Profit (3/22/2011 6:41:33 PM)

That wasn't a case of blowing smoke up your.....well you know what I'm saying[:)]




pahunkboy -> RE: Federal Profit (3/22/2011 8:04:38 PM)

LOL.

So we have monetary experts here in the house!     Too funny!    This crowd thinks the fed is US, when in fact it is a private corporation.  

.....the big boys are doing your no favors....  none.




tazzygirl -> RE: Federal Profit (3/22/2011 8:36:34 PM)

I dont recall anyone caring what your fantasy opinion of the minute is, pahunk.




DarkSteven -> RE: Federal Profit (3/22/2011 8:57:33 PM)

I don't like this.

If the Fed can make a profit by exceeding its charter, it's still exceeding its charter.




tazzygirl -> RE: Federal Profit (3/22/2011 9:00:52 PM)

Im still trying to work this all out in my mind, DS.

Im not exactly sure how I feel about it and was hoping some more informative minds would speak on the matter.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Federal Profit (3/22/2011 9:01:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I don't like this.

If the Fed can make a profit by exceeding its charter, it's still exceeding its charter.



In what way is the Fed exceeding its charter?




tazzygirl -> RE: Federal Profit (3/22/2011 9:14:37 PM)

Im sort of wondering the same thing. Its supposed to have both private and public aspects, with the US Government receiving all the profits. Seems like, according to what I posted, the Fed received 25 Billion dollars profit a year for the past decade, then it jumped to around 46 Billion, then 70+ Billion.

How is that not in agreement with their charter?




Termyn8or -> RE: Federal Profit (3/23/2011 12:11:11 AM)

To be honest I am not qualified to analyse this completely, but I know enough that I do think it is a step in the right direction, that is unless we like the idea of default. It should have a positive effect on our currency as well as our credit rating. If it continues, it forestalls the fall, if they keep it up they might just get somewhere and maybe even fix it.

I am still not all for a credit based economy, but unlike SOME, I know the reality. This abolish the fed shit just ain't gonna work. What I have expressed is that it is coming sooner than most think but really, though we have a responsibility to future generations, that only goes so far.

That said, this is a very small step, but it is in the right direction. You have to think of big numbers in a different way. A trillion is a thousand billion. In perspective, if you need a thousand bucks, you get eighty bucks, that is good.

Perspective. (I am not a financial expert, but I can understand big numbers because of electronics/physics, pico, nano, milli, centi, deci, deca, kilo, mega, giga, tera. Yes they seem to have skipped hundreds on the plus side)

There is still a loooooooooooong way to go.

T^T




pahunkboy -> RE: Federal Profit (3/23/2011 7:20:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont recall anyone caring what your fantasy opinion of the minute is, pahunk.


Are you better off now- then you were 4 years ago?




tazzygirl -> RE: Federal Profit (3/23/2011 8:24:34 AM)

Am I better off now that the bubble has burst and Im actually where I should have been 4 years ago.. where we all should have been 4 years ago, instead of living an inflated lifestyle that none of us should have been living?

Isnt that the question you meant to ask?




Edwynn -> RE: Federal Profit (3/23/2011 12:05:45 PM)




"Federal Reserve Act Section 2a. Monetary Policy ObjectivesThe Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal Open Market Committee shall maintain long run growth of the monetary and credit aggregates commensurate with the economy's long run potential to increase production, so as to promote effectively the goals of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates. [12 USC 225a. As added by act of November 16, 1977 (91 Stat. 1387) and amended by acts of October 27, 1978 (92 Stat. 1897); Aug. 23, 1988 (102 Stat. 1375); and Dec. 27, 2000 (114 Stat. 3028).]"



The original charter mentioned the process of issuing currency, the ability and expectation to both/either increase or decrease the money supply in fulfillment of the mandate of full output/employment consistent with low/stable inflation.

When the fed feels it time to reduce the money supply, it sells the bonds it had been buying earlier, the payment in cash from the dealers removing money from circulation. Whatever money the fed puts into circulation at one time it removes at least some portion of (or perhaps more than)  later when the economy is heading towards price/wage increase pressures. The money put into circulation at one time does not all stay there forever. The performance of the economy determines these actions.

Whatever securities the fed is holding as result of increasing the money supply earn interest, and that interest (almost all of it) is paid to the treasury yearly.


Fed wants to increase MS: it buys bonds, the cash paid being put into circulation.

Fed wants to decrease MS: it sells some of its bonds, the cash paid to the fed then removing money from circulation.

The fed holds this cash until the economy dictates another round of the fed's bond purchasing. So the fed "creates" money only when their reserves of cash are depleted during times of very large purchases, not  for each and every bond it buys from the start of the purchasing cycle. When the economy improves sufficiently, this "created" money is then "destroyed," but not quite all of it, so as to prevent or prolong having to "create" more during the next purchasing round.


Oversimplifying a bit, the fed increases MS when the economy is down, historically to make investment cheaper and ultimately reduce unemployment. It decreases MS when prices are going up too much, as when the economy is starting to exceed capacity.

As I say, oversimplified, but it explains the actions of MS as related to the mandate of unemployment and inflation.


All major central banks have roughly the same mandate, but worded differently and somewhat prioritized differently.


So there is nothing new here that hasn't been going on since the fed's inception, or what is similar to how all major central banks operate, except that the financial industry's numerous torpedo hits  to all the credit markets and the entire economy has required the unprecedented amount of securities purchases  (certainly arguable as to exactly what extent),  hence the unprecedented profits from the interest being earned on those securities.


The even better news will be when the fed's profits go down as result of  holding far fewer securities than at present, indicating that the economy is back to normal.

What tazzy touches on is definitely true also, i.e we spent and spent and kept accepting all the card limit increases the banks threw at us, and in the aggregate net private savings have been negative for a long time. Even when the government had a budget surplus for a couple of years in the late nineties, national savings (private + government savings -the government surplus in this case) were negative because individuals and businesses spent so much as to easily negate the budget surplus.







willbeurdaddy -> RE: Federal Profit (3/23/2011 1:02:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn




What tazzy touches on is definitely true also, i.e we spent and spent and kept accepting all the card limit increases the banks threw at us, and in the aggregate net private savings have been negative for a long time. Even when the government had a budget surplus for a couple of years in the late nineties, national savings (private + government savings -the government surplus in this case) were negative because individuals and businesses spent so much as to easily negate the budget surplus.






Sigghhh, once again there was no surplus. Government spending exceeded government revenues in every year. The minor factual error doesnt negate a suprisingly accurate post from you though. Must be cut and paste.




Edwynn -> RE: Federal Profit (3/23/2011 1:17:22 PM)



"Must be cut and paste. "


From my head, yes.

No different than Hippiekinkster' chemistry explanations, e.g. being copy/pasted from his head, or anyone else relating something based on their formal study of a subject.

In any case I'm not an expert and don't claim to be, all that stuff is somewhat basic.







willbeurdaddy -> RE: Federal Profit (3/23/2011 1:19:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



, all that stuff is somewhat basic.






Agreed, but commonly misunderstood or deliberately misrepresented.




Edwynn -> RE: Federal Profit (3/23/2011 1:49:13 PM)



What I meant was that it's fairly standard econ textbook renderings from most all university econ departments. I don't exactly expect lay people to know fed operations to that level of detail and I certainly understand the first few questions in the thread being asked.

As for being commonly misunderstood or deliberately misrepresented, that's on the media and politicians, all stripes. Can't expect Jane Q Public to get any decent grasp on what the fed actually does after all that.


Then there are the heavily gold/silver sponsored magazines & web sites, lot's of entertainment there, to be sure. 









Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875