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Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/24/2011 9:00:16 AM

FirmhandKY

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As some of you may be aware, I'm an avid reader, and own, or have owned thousands of books.

For the last several years I've been collecting more ebooks, than books, and have been watching the changes in the publishing industry pretty closely. I'm a big fan of Baen Publishing, who have been blazing the trail in this area.

The Kindle, and other electronic ebook readers have been a pretty interesting development, and have accelerated the coming destruction of the old publishing paradigm.

Currently, more than a quarter of the top selling authors on Amazon are "self-published", done electronically, without the aid of any of the major publishing houses.

Now, I think something has occurred that pretty much puts a timeline on the death of most publishing houses.

Barry Eisler, the best-selling author of several books and the "Hard Rain" series just turned down a half a million dollar book advance from St Martin's Press in order to self-publish. It didn't make business sense to him to take the money.

Best Selling Author Turns Down Half A Million Dollar Publishing Contract To Self-Publish

Joe Konrath, who we've written about numerous times, and Barry Eisler (who we haven't...), contacted me late last week to pass on the fascinating news that Eisler, who has been a NY Times Best Selling author of a variety of thrillers, has turned down a $500,000 publishing deal from a mainstream publisher, in order to self-publish his next book. That's a lot of money to give up. The link is to a (long, but fascinating) dialog between Konrath and Eisler, discussing the thinking behind passing up that kind of money to go the self-publishing route. The key takeaway: the $500,000 comes with strings (as does any publishing deal), and in this case, Eisler feels he's likely to be better off on his own.

Follow some of the links. Lots of good information.

And, if you have ever thought of writing yourself, this is an interesting read.

Firm

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/24/2011 11:09:27 AM

Termyn8or

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I know this is a bit in left field, but an analogy might be the music industry.

You wonder why alot of bands, their first album is the best ? Because it took their whole life. Then they sign the contract and take the money. At that point they MUST come up with more albums every year or two.

Maybe not right on the mark, but I think something similar. Boils down to money talks. The guy wants to do his own talking.

Good !

T^T

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/24/2011 11:18:16 AM

Arpig

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quote:

You wonder why alot of bands, their first album is the best ? Because it took their whole life.

Quoted for truth!

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/24/2011 11:42:15 AM

mnottertail

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I will miss the hands on of paper books, screen reading is so not my gig.

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/24/2011 11:47:04 AM

Termyn8or

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That is a dilemma. I like books, especially old books. Now to refrain from killing too many trees, obviously what we should do is recycle paper. In fact they already do, like newspapers. But when it comes down to higher quality bond, which books do we pulp up ?

If it ain't one thing it's another.

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/24/2011 11:48:22 AM

YSG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I know this is a bit in left field, but an analogy might be the music industry.

You wonder why alot of bands, their first album is the best ? Because it took their whole life. Then they sign the contract and take the money. At that point they MUST come up with more albums every year or two.

Maybe not right on the mark, but I think something similar. Boils down to money talks. The guy wants to do his own talking.

Good !

T^T

Not always true, Termy. A local example, if you will: Mushroomhead signed with Universal in 2000 I think, and re-released XX in 2001 (a collection of their first 3 albums and some new stuff), and XIII (13) in 2003. In my opinion, its some of their best work. Granted, its much more streamlined and heavier than their earlier stuff, but it's still good.

Just my opinion

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/24/2011 12:05:12 PM

flcouple2009

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He didn't turn down $500,000. He turned a $500,000 advance he would have to pay back.

Why not? He's a best selling author who shouldn't need the money nor have a problem self publishing.

For every person who self publishes ( and I am including books, music, video,etc) who happens to make it there are thousands failing. The people who make it self publishing are generally those who already have a name or people just starting out who devote every moment of their life to a project.

Everybody else in the middle needs the structure and resources.

I can admit to making a lot of money at times producing for people who self-distributed. I can also acknowledge generally being the only one who made any money as well.

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/24/2011 12:50:18 PM

Hillwilliam

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Kindle is just evil. I like a REAL book in My hands dammit.

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/24/2011 2:00:19 PM

Termyn8or

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And how do you read a kindle in bed or ....... ?

Y'know I bought a laser printer because the type is insoluble in water. Maybe water soluble ink is really the way to go. Rinse it off and start egain.

T^T

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/24/2011 5:52:22 PM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

He didn't turn down $500,000. He turned a $500,000 advance he would have to pay back.

Why not? He's a best selling author who shouldn't need the money nor have a problem self publishing.

For every person who self publishes ( and I am including books, music, video,etc) who happens to make it there are thousands failing. The people who make it self publishing are generally those who already have a name or people just starting out who devote every moment of their life to a project.

Everybody else in the middle needs the structure and resources.

I can admit to making a lot of money at times producing for people who self-distributed. I can also acknowledge generally being the only one who made any money as well.

Soooo ....

Which publishing company do you work for?

Firm

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/24/2011 9:46:20 PM

Palliata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

And how do you read a kindle in bed or ....... ?

T^T

Not to be the tech guy, but kindle is actually quite easy to read in bed. The 'digital ink' technology means it doesn't have the kind of weight backlighting and so forth necessitate, and it also doesn't create eye strain like something backlit would. I've never found it to be any more challenging to read than a regular book. Just a simple lamp by your bedside and a kindle in one hand and you're set. It weighs less than solidly half of my books.

Anyway, at the same time, I have a profound love for physical books. Even though probably 70+% of my reading happens in electronic format at this point, having a library in which to surround myself with leather-bound books of all genres and persuasions is my "made it moment." I sincerely hope that books go the way of vinyl records - they stay around for collectors and posterity, but don't hold back technology due to nostalgia and iconoclasti.

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/24/2011 10:31:20 PM

Termyn8or

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OK so it's not that bad. But then there is the OP's subject. The dude turned down a half a mil.

Now my Momma didn't raise no fools, but the world is full of them. I'm sorry I brought up the dead tree shit really. Why did he turn it down ?

Well let's give that some thought. When you are looking at a prospective pet rock, would you not turn it over to see the other side ? In that fashion, instead of thinking why he turned it down, I ask why did they offer it ? Are they in business to give money away ? Far as I know only the government does that.

Kinda turns the tables huh ? Think beyond their possible incursion into control of content, which has not been mentioned, follow the money. Why are they willing to front a half a mil ? To lose money ? I say no, I think maybe the guy is good enough that they saw potential for profit. Unless the offerer is some sort of independently wealthy philanthropist or something, who has no stockholders to whom to answer or family to feed (and those of his yacht crew and such), he wouldn't just burn money.

I am sorry that I see things this way, but I do. People don't just give out checks for nothing. Business is business.

T^T

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/24/2011 10:47:12 PM

Palliata

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Naturally they expect a profit. The question is, do they expect enough profit that the royalty payments to the author will outweigh what he could make elsewhere? The question here isn't so much "who wins" as "who wins more." The author gets a pretty solid deal no matter what - half a million dollars will set you up pretty nicely - but if he can sell books without their help cutting out the middleman starts to sound pretty damn good. If he can't, everyone loses - he doesn't get his 500k+, the publisher doesn't get their cut. The only person who wins no matter what is Amazon. If he goes with them and sells, they make a fortune. If he goes with them and doesn't, they make a little bit with no outlay, and if he avoids them altogether, well, they'll just pick up one of a thousand others.

In other words, being Amazon is a lot like being a bookie - if you get the VIG every time, why would you ever bet?

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/24/2011 11:05:25 PM

Termyn8or

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ZZactly, but why did they bet ? Now just how good is this book ? Methinkst it might be worth a look eh ?

Perhaps Eisler has one more brain cell than the bean counters.

T^T

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/25/2011 7:11:13 AM

flcouple2009

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Soooo ....

Which publishing company do you work for?

Firm

And your contributions to the artistic world are?

Too many have this illusion where they can just place whatever they create in the Amazon market place and bingo the crowds will come.

In general those how make it self distributing either already have a name or those who devote their life to getting their project seen.

Those in the middle fall through the cracks. I've got a great example sitting here looking at me. I produced 2 kids videos for a magician and they came out great. He didn't have the time needed to properly do the marketing nor the resources to hire someone. In the end it was just another really good product no one ever saw.

Most people still need the resources that the publishing house, recording company, or video hose can provide.

There was also no mention of Eisler not cutting a distribution deal.

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/25/2011 7:40:59 AM

DomImus

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The whole problem with this self publishing nonsense is that not everyone is a talented writer. I can remember music going through the same evolution. When I was growing up and learning guitar in the 70s everyone mostly played covers. I still love to do that. I write and record on the side mostly as a hobby because I enjoy it.

Anyway, along come the 80s and suddenly the progression became "learn an instrument, form a band, record a demo". I saw countless folks locally go through this futile exercise. It became even more rampant once computers became ubiquitous with their recording software. Today anyone can have a reasonable facsimile of a 24-48 track "studio" on their pc. That doesn't make them Gus Dudgeon.

You stand a much better chance of luring in the ghost of Shoeless Joe Jackson by building a baseball diamond in the pasture out back of your house.

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/25/2011 8:25:09 AM

FirmhandKY

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Exactly.

Talent is the first requirement. And, often, having your friends and neighbors tell you how "talented" you are isn't always a good way to get an accurate assessment.

Firm

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/25/2011 8:37:28 AM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Soooo ....

Which publishing company do you work for?

Firm

And your contributions to the artistic world are?

And, this is pertinent how, exactly?

If your question is what experience or knowledge I have in this area, I've published an ebook back in the "dawn of the stone age" of ebook publishing (a decade ago), and have had an interest in the subject every since.

As I mentioned, I was reading and purchasing ebooks since before then, way before the Kindle and its brethren hit the market (I've had a Palm since forever).

So, I suspect I'm a little more versed in the area than the average joe.

Which publishing company do you work for, again?

quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Too many have this illusion where they can just place whatever they create in the Amazon market place and bingo the crowds will come.

In general those how make it self distributing either already have a name or those who devote their life to getting their project seen.

Those in the middle fall through the cracks. I've got a great example sitting here looking at me. I produced 2 kids videos for a magician and they came out great. He didn't have the time needed to properly do the marketing nor the resources to hire someone. In the end it was just another really good product no one ever saw.

Most people still need the resources that the publishing house, recording company, or video hose can provide.

Not everyone is successful.

There is always an element of "luck" involved, certainly, but talent is an important issue. As well, there is the question of whether there is actually an audience that appreciates the particular product that you can produce.

However, its obvious that you have not done much reading or thinking on the issue under discussion. And, in your post above, you are talking about videos, while the subject is about ebooks. While there are some similarities between any product that can be digitally produced and distributed, there are some important differences as well.

Please read the last link in my OP to get a better idea of how "necessary" main-line publishing houses are becoming to the new "electronic" sales channel.

quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

There was also no mention of Eisler not cutting a distribution deal.

huh?

Firm

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/25/2011 10:25:55 AM

Palliata

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The thing we need to keep in mind, I think, when looking at whether or not someone can be successful with these digital self-publishers, is that anyone can do it. That means that a lot of the failure rate is going to be people who should never had tried their hand at writing in the first place, people who may someday be great writers but at this point aren't ready for the market, and people who cobble something together out of component parts on the "too cheap to fail" model. If we were to separate out those authors who would be of the quality to stand a chance of traditional publication, I suspect the odds would look quite a bit better.

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RE: Barry Eisler Turns Down 500K From Publisher - 3/25/2011 4:27:13 PM

January

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Interesting discussion, this.

I have to agree with DomImus. Most of the self-published stuff on Amazon is crap. The covers are horrendous and there's no editing of any kind. Often it's an impatient person who thinks they are ready for the world to see their masterpiece, and too impatient to actually create a masterpiece.

Those writers who are successful in self-publishing are generally those folks who already have an established "author brand". They know how to write and they already have a fan base. That means they've published with the bigger houses first.

Conversely, the self-published unknown Kindle authors have a tough marketing road ahead of them--even if they write great stuff. They are busy spamming the Amazon forums, or complaining about the indignity of "genre", or offering free books in exchange for reviews. It's not a pretty sight. The readers on those Amazon forums (especially the Romance forum) HATE the self-published authors.

My own erotic romance books are electronically published by big name publishers in that particular niche (Samhain Publishing, and Carina Press, the electronic-first arm of Harlequin). I am very happy with the results and support I get from the publishers.

I still like to read paper books.

January

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