RE: An odd conundrum.

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RE: An odd conundrum. - 3/24/2011 11:15:58 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

If a board sets a CEOs pay in a manner that rewards them for "mediocre or disastrous performance" they can be sued for violating their fiduciary responsibilities.

So you should be able to cite that part of the US Code providing for that, right?

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RE: An odd conundrum. - 3/24/2011 11:23:10 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

If a board sets a CEOs pay in a manner that rewards them for "mediocre or disastrous performance" they can be sued for violating their fiduciary responsibilities.
So you should be able to cite that part of the US Code providing for that, right?

been there done that

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to the barking of the dogfox,
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RE: An odd conundrum. - 3/25/2011 3:06:05 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
"Businesses free to organize in a size and manner that keeps them agile and capable of responding nimbly to changes, in a regulatory environment that levels the playing field with other countries and that enables it to pay its workforce what a free labor market commands for their skills and services."

Of course to achieve that goal would require far higher degree of regulation, to prevent business owners from conspiring to set wages, or a completely unionized workforce.

Like any cartel, business owners that attempt to conspire to set wages will find members breaking off and paying more to attract better workers. And to the extent that such a conspiracy can survive, those with the ability to earn more than the artificially low wages will simply move to a different industry or to other companies within that industry.

You do realize that your rosy dream didn't happen back when big businesses did conspire with each other to keep wages low and to bust unions? In the real world it took a lot of brave people resisting the violence by strikebreakers and government militias for about 50 years to get even remotely fair wages and working conditions, Haymarket, Virden, Ludlow etc.

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RE: An odd conundrum. - 3/25/2011 5:43:24 PM

Termyn8or

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"Anyone here ever felt that they were on equal power terms with their boss?"

Not to blow my own horn here ....... but I have at more than one job. However that is the market - or was. Everything changes but really the market determines things if left to it's own means. However my trade is falling down due to conditions beyond the scope of this text. Suffice it to say they didn't tell me what I make, I told them. Things have changed.

But take the case of this town in the SE US I heard of years ago. It was a long time ago and minimum wage may have been around four bucks an hour. There was alot of building and development going on and just about everyone in the nearby communities were either working construction or employed in the service industry supported by this growth. There simply weren't enough people.

To keep the story short - McD's was hiring into entry level positions at double the minimum wage. DOUBLE. Their businesses were booming for the lunch crowd etc. and they were making money. No way in hell they wanted to share it, but they were forced to by market conditions.

The point of all this is that as long as unemployment is rampant and widespread (do not let the numbers fool you, it's like 30% for real), it's a buyer's matket. Unions gain the edge by solidarity, not by market forces. If the gains the unions had made were because of market forces you wouldn't have floor sweepers in the auto industry making more than degreed engineers their third year in the field. The market would never allow that.

Thus the laws of nature are again trampled upon by forces which may have been necessary at one time, which one would think are no longer needed. But they are, even though their power is greatly diminished. Unemployment does that.

Look at China and how cheap those people work, and work HARD. People commiting suicide ! But when you have a half a billion people who are living in huts, under trees or sixteen to a room, they are desparate which creates a buyer's market.

That's why "they" like overpopulation, not realizing that it is a self destructive policy. At the root of it all is greed. What's more the union label at some times meant that you were paying too much, as employees cheated their employers by punching the time clock for a few of their buddies all the time. Fifty bucks an hour (benefits considered) to sweep the floor full time, but only work part time. This yields a net wage of alot more than the already ridiculous rate the employer thinks he is paying.

Neither side is with clean hands here. Greed.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 3/25/2011 6:11:26 PM >

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RE: An odd conundrum. - 3/25/2011 5:52:40 PM

Termyn8or

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"Private sector unions still have a valid role"

With that I have to agree at least in some part. Take the electrician's union, masons union and so forth. Real skills and some physical ability required. But there is also the training. How much training does a floor sweeper need ?

I don't mean to put down floorsweepers, but the truth is it ain't rocket science. It's the worth of the labor, with the inverse appied which includes the number of people willing and ABLE to accomplish the task.

T^T

T^T

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RE: An odd conundrum. - 3/25/2011 5:56:46 PM

Termyn8or

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"1-3 textile mills would basically control the wage structure of an entire town. If you dont like it, get the fuck OUT."

That's the long and short of it.

Load sixteen tons and what do you get ?
Another day older and deeper in debt,
Somethin somethin somethin,,,,,
I owe my soul to the company store.

It happened. They get you out in the middle of nowhere and then what ? Greed then equals exploitation. Again the market, in a sense.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 3/25/2011 6:08:29 PM >

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RE: An odd conundrum. - 3/25/2011 5:58:54 PM

Termyn8or

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"Steven, I don't see a problem here, vote for Independants and throw both the Dems and Reps out!"

While I agree, that won't fix it. Too oversimplfied. This is not a partisan issue as much as the partisanians would like to think.

T^T

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RE: An odd conundrum. - 3/25/2011 6:03:26 PM

Termyn8or

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"You do realize that your rosy dream didn't happen back when big businesses did conspire with each other to keep wages low and to bust unions?"

Hold on there, I am a conspiracy theorist ? Who says they ever met. Got proof ? Surely it was just a coincidence.

Actually I agree with you, I just thought your craw could use a little nudge. And apply that to other sectors of society if you can. That partnership between big business, government and the media is what now ?

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 3/25/2011 6:07:47 PM >

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RE: An odd conundrum. - 3/25/2011 6:27:35 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

If a board sets a CEOs pay in a manner that rewards them for "mediocre or disastrous performance" they can be sued for violating their fiduciary responsibilities.
So you should be able to cite that part of the US Code providing for that, right?

been there done that

So since you can't provide a citation, you must be once again making shit up.

You do understand that nobody on this board except maybe 2 or 3 other rabid right-wingers believes anything you claim, right? Since you can never back anything up, the inevitable conclusion is that you are making things up. That's another way of saying you are lying. You understand this, right?

Now I'm reasonably certain that you see yourself as an honorable man. Most men do. And honorable men don't lie. In fact, a truly honorable man would demonstrate by his actions that he actually is an honorable man, and that he can be relied upon to tell the truth. He would do that online by backing up what he says with evidence.

Your inability to ever give any sort of evidence whatsoever to back up what you say can lead to only one conclusion: that you are a dishonorable person, and that you have no compunctions about lying. I feel certain others have come to the same conclusion.

To me, that puts you in the same category as Heretic, who maliciously attacked someone with a debilitating ailment (degenerative disc disease as well as osteoarthritis) for no reason whatsover. Maybe not quite so bad, because anyone who would attack someone because they were disabled or had a debilitating disease is lower than dogshit, and would do the world a favor by killing himself.

A man without honor has nothing. Er ist bemitleiden sein.

< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 3/25/2011 6:29:02 PM >

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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