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Punishment. - 3/25/2011 1:19:28 AM

zadra

Posts: 4
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline

I am a budding Domme. Understand that I am seeking real and sustainable D/s in a relationship, not just for kink.

So far, both my subs have asked for punishment. I don't get the feeling they are wanting it like a scene or fantasy...I have doled out a couple punishments which weren't fun for me and I don't think were fun for them, either. (I guess it's not supposed to be fun if it's really punishment)

I am close to just saying "hey, I do not like punishing. My anger or disappointment should be punishment enough" But, I also understand that relationships are work. Sometimes they may require maintanance. Is punishment a necessity?

So much of this seems to come so incredibly naturally to me, but this aspect is just not clicking in to place. I do not get it.

If you've asked for punishment, what are you seeking? Why do you need it? Is it the experience, or some result?

Post #: 1

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 1:24:04 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

are your subs also new?

if so, it could be that they have a pre-conceived notion of what punishment should be..

_____________________________

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Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to zadra)

Post #: 2

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 1:29:28 AM

SpiritedRadiance

Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline

Why are your submissives Asking for Punishment. You are incontrol meaning you deem what is and isnt punishment worthy....So they can ask all they want if you dont feel the infraction involves punishment.... then dont give.

_____________________________

"Theres nothing in life like the feeling of cool leather sliding over your skin, the tears that fill your eyes as you realize someone else thinks you deserve it even if you havent reached that conclusion yet"- Forever to remember 11/5/11

(in reply to GreedyTop)

Post #: 3

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 1:39:05 AM

zadra

Posts: 4
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline

Yes, they've been new and there is so much to learn, mostly about ourselves. I have not gotten the feeling that they are, for instance, just really fishing for a spanking or something, although perhaps.

It seems to me, if I really see a behavior I need modified, or I require better/bigger/more...that there are better ways to achieve that than through punishment. But I do not always understand the sub mind.

(in reply to GreedyTop)

Post #: 4

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 1:40:51 AM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
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I don't punish. If a sub does something wrong, we discuss it and figure out how to prevent it from happening again. What I suspect you mean by punishment is what I do for fun...that's my kink.

So you don't like "punishment"...then don't do it. You're the one in charge. If your subs are asking for punishment to make amends for an actual transgression, give them something they don't enjoy. Have them write an essay...you pick the topic and set the due date. Put a small pebble in one of their shoes and make them keep it their all day while at work. Withdraw privileges...if they like to watch TV, take that away for a month. Have them eat a meal they don't like every night for a month...the same thing every night. Ignore them for a while...no play or interaction beyond the minimum required.

If the punishment involves no kink/sex aspect, and is sufficiently unpleasant, then you will have better behaved subs, and a more peaceful home.

_____________________________

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(in reply to zadra)

Post #: 5

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 2:40:06 AM

slaveboy702

Posts: 1
Joined: 5/27/2007
Status: offline

Greetings Miss,

From my experience of over 7 yrs I believe Punishment is something which a slave feels as a means of being dominated, controlled.

Domination is all in the mind and the mind is a powerful weapon.

So no matter how the punishment would be it would make feel a sub/slave of being dominated, of being taught a sense of discipline which a slave very much wants.

Its not just an experience but its a way a slave might believe in disciplining himself.

Punishment may be necessary for discipline. But it is not something what a slave wants always as a domme rules and what matters is what a domme wants and not what a sub/slave wants.

Miss , you should think what type of punishment do you really love to inflict upon them what really is fun for you.

Yes it should be fun for you as this keeps the interests going longer.

Actually a slave should understand how his Domme enjoys and should try to adapt to her likings.

It is nice of you to think and consider of what your slaves also like.

sincerely,
slave harry smith
cm id: slaveboy702

(in reply to zadra)

Post #: 6

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 6:03:10 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

It could be that they really want a scene, and think that it has to be about punishment. Try giving them regular spankings. There's a physical/emotional release after one - that might be what they want. They may well be happier and better behaved after.

Note that it is NOT punishment if you don't make it about it. If you simply say that you're doing it because you want to/you think they need it, it's not punishment.

If it IS about punishment, make it clear what actions are being punished.

Welcome to the lifestyle.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to slaveboy702)

Post #: 7

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 6:03:56 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

It sounds as though they are asking for discipline, physical reminders to help them stay on course in the future. Since you aren't getting "Ha I broke your rule, now you have to punish me". But something more pro-active, if you will. Either that or they feel guilty over something even if it's inconsequential to you, and want to expiate the guilt through suffering.

If it is discipline, you could do maintenance spankings where they get spanked on a regular schedule. Beyond this, have you told them you want them to ask for a spanking? They may not know that you're amenable to being asked since not everyone is.

_____________________________

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Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to slaveboy702)

Post #: 8

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 7:54:08 AM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zadra

I am a budding Domme. Understand that I am seeking real and sustainable D/s in a relationship, not just for kink.

So far, both my subs have asked for punishment. I don't get the feeling they are wanting it like a scene or fantasy...I have doled out a couple punishments which weren't fun for me and I don't think were fun for them, either. (I guess it's not supposed to be fun if it's really punishment)

I am close to just saying "hey, I do not like punishing. My anger or disappointment should be punishment enough" But, I also understand that relationships are work. Sometimes they may require maintenance. Is punishment a necessity?

So much of this seems to come so incredibly naturally to me, but this aspect is just not clicking in to place. I do not get it.

If you've asked for punishment, what are you seeking? Why do you need it? Is it the experience, or some result?

IJMHO, but you are the person in charge, They are the slave. You do what you want. If you don't like doing something, don't do it.
Heck. That's one of, if not the, best things about being on Top.

Also, and again, this IJMHO. but if you've been domming someone for a considerable length of time (I figure over three months) and are still having to punish frequently, then it's time to take a long look at things. It's understandable to have lots of consequences initially, as the other party gets used to the rules/regulations/landscape/temperament and expectations, but that should decrease over time, pretty quickly. If its still occuring at three months, then I need to look at one of two things:
-What am I doing wrong?
-Or is it simply a case of the other party not being willing because of X,Y,Z

And as a final note, not all punishments need be physical. If you don't like physical consequences, make em take you shopping, have em clean your toilet with their tongue, make em do something for you that they would not ordinarily do.

Just a thought or two.

quote:

I am close to just saying "hey, I do not like punishing. My anger or disappointment should be punishment enough"

Bingo. This is dead on.

Frankly, the worst punishment I know is when you look the slave in the eye and say something along the lines of, "I am crushingly disappointed in you. I expected so much more, and you capable of it, but instead I get this."

For most slaves, it's s shattering blow.

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to zadra)

Post #: 9

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 7:57:54 AM

ranja

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zadra
My anger or disappointment should be punishment enough"

For some it is not... my Husband might come across like He sulks or i might not even notice that He is angry or disappointed as He is a quiet man... so for me personally His anger or disappointment is not enough.... and if He would be so angry and disappointed that He can not be bothered with me anymore then it would be too much
So it is a good way for us if He alerts me to His dismay by some slaps or pinches or some humiliating comment or demand... some form of punishment other than just 'the look' or ignoring me or a boring conversation about things.

(in reply to zadra)

Post #: 10

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 9:31:51 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zadra
I am close to just saying "hey, I do not like punishing. My anger or disappointment should be punishment enough"

Just so you know, that's pretty much exactly what I said to Carol back when we were new. I punished her once and decided it was not a reasonable way to run a railroad. Actually, I didn't tell her that my anger should be enough. What I said was that she was just to obey from now on so we could skip the whole anger/disappointment/get punished/then obey gig and get right on to the happy/obey part part.

If they are just "fishing for a spanking" then three things are true:

a) You need to introduce them to the idea of "funishment" -- yup it's just like it sounds.
b) You're "spankings" are totally ineffective. If they WANT your punishment, then it's not very punishing is it?
c) They have a manipulative streak in them that may be problematic. I'd remove it if it were me.

I hope any of this helps.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to zadra)

Post #: 11

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 1:02:01 PM

anon99

Posts: 5
Joined: 2/26/2011
Status: offline

i always found the worst punishment a Master could give me was no punishment, or no contact. those were always the hardest to deal with.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 12

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 1:36:22 PM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

I only have gotton punished twice (in 5 years) and both times i "earned" the punishment by my actions. It was very effective. Corporal punishment works for me because i hate pain. We are talking punishemnt not funishment. That does not work for all, you set the rules they follow. You should ask them why they want punishment what they did (or did not do) to earn it. Other than that i think you got some great ideas here. Jutr remember you are the Domme, you are the one in control

Matt's littleone

(in reply to anon99)

Post #: 13

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 3:59:52 PM

LillyBoPeep

Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline

you are the leader so you CAN say "i don't like punishment" and deal with problems another way. lots of people have relationships where physical punishment doesn't happen, or happens rarely.
some people do like disciplinary "leash yanks" that ground them and help them "feel" their role -- that may have something to do with it, especially since your subs are new. but also, sometimes people become overly attached to their own idea of how the "role" should fit them, and their ideas might include getting "punished" all the time so that they feel slavey, and if you're not into that with them, it could be setting everyone up for disappointment.

Arpig's suggestions for non-kinky punishments are good; sometimes, even if someone doesn't outright misbehave at first, it can go that way because they see it as a means to get something they want.
like leadership said, funishment scenes can be great for dealing with the "need" to be punished, but without leading to rampant misbehavior.

have you talked to them about your expectations?

_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 14

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 6:28:20 PM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zadra

So far, both my subs have asked for punishment. I don't get the feeling they are wanting it like a scene or fantasy...I have doled out a couple punishments which weren't fun for me and I don't think were fun for them, either. (I guess it's not supposed to be fun if it's really punishment)

Greetings,

Behavioral correction is a very important part of my relationships. It offers a necessary measure of realignment and mental reinforcement that I find beneficial, even in unpleasant circumstances. My accountability is singularly expressed but mutually realized. It impacts the partnership in a dramatic fashion. While I practice self-policing and am expected to bring things to his attention that he may not be aware of or that would be of significant importance (as his property), that is the extent of my requirement. It is neither my place nor right to determine his response and its administration (if any). To do so would imply a level of authority and influence that I'm not privy to, and initiate some measure of entitlement that is in grave contradiction to my station.

quote:

]I am close to just saying "hey, I do not like punishing. My anger or disappointment should be punishment enough"

The determination of enough is of little use if the recipient is non responsive and has never been conditioned to receive that decree. In addition, it is noticeably difficult for an individual to differentiate between punishment and other methods of behavioral retooling if the Keeper has failed to distinguish such themselves. You've indicated that their perspectives may be somewhat errant but didn't note if you've led them to the appropriate conclusions. Which simply impresses your opinion regarding the subject and how it will be addressed going forward in your relationship. Neither dominants or submissives are mind readers. Communication is key.

quote:

If you've asked for punishment, what are you seeking? Why do you need it? Is it the experience, or some result?

I don't believe it is always the dominant's responsibility to jerk my chain. I'm well aware when my mind is veering off in the wrong direction and a little self admonishment goes a very long way. To suggest that I cannot exercise this measure of discipline and must resort to behaviors or other actions that warrant his involvement is irresponsible and self-serving. There are instances when a perspective may not be articulated but its implication is pretty darned pronounced. Sometimes an individual ignores it because it isn't the answer they wish to hear, but that doesn't mean they're oblivious to the truth.

I cannot condone overt manipulation and will posit that the unintentional variety isn't always as innocent as it appears. There's a fine line between expressing ones desires and becoming a quasi puppeteer pitifully jerking the strings of the one in charge. And while the behavior is clearly inappropriate, its allowance is even more so. You set the tone and will determine what's permissible. I leave you with a few thoughts that trickled through my head regarding this subject:

I will never control Him.
I have no authority to place demands upon Him.
He is within His right to tell me no.
I will bear His decisions with quiet grace.
He is my Compass always.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to zadra)

Post #: 15

RE: Punishment. - 3/25/2011 10:17:47 PM

zadra

Posts: 4
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline

Thank you for so many thoughtful replies.

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 16

RE: Punishment. - 3/26/2011 7:52:22 AM

graceadieu

Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zadra

Yes, they've been new and there is so much to learn, mostly about ourselves. I have not gotten the feeling that they are, for instance, just really fishing for a spanking or something, although perhaps.

It seems to me, if I really see a behavior I need modified, or I require better/bigger/more...that there are better ways to achieve that than through punishment. But I do not always understand the sub mind.

You understand that, but they may not. When I was new to 24/7, I thought that punishment was a necessary part of behavioral modification, because that's what people on the internet and in BDSM books said. It took me a while to realize that that's not the only way (in fact, for a while I swung to totally the opposite way and stopped understanding why people in real life did the punishment thing).

On the other hand, maybe they feel really guilty about something and are having a hard time letting it go, and feel that getting beaten or whatever will help them work through it. Or this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It sounds as though they are asking for discipline, physical reminders to help them stay on course in the future. Since you aren't getting "Ha I broke your rule, now you have to punish me". But something more pro-active, if you will. Either that or they feel guilty over something even if it's inconsequential to you, and want to expiate the guilt through suffering.

If it is discipline, you could do maintenance spankings where they get spanked on a regular schedule. Beyond this, have you told them you want them to ask for a spanking? They may not know that you're amenable to being asked since not everyone is.

Yeah, personally I've found that semi-regular non-play spankings help remind me on a visceral level of who's in control, and generally makes me "feel submissive". Also, they can be good catharsis for general crankiness or anxiety.

(in reply to zadra)

Post #: 17

RE: Punishment. - 3/26/2011 9:48:05 AM

stellauk

Posts: 1360
Status: offline

Hmm.. I've asked for punishment in the past to help me work through some guilt/shame issues which affected my self-esteem but generally on the whole punishment is something I accept as a submissive rather than expect.

My expectations from a Dominant are more to do with who they are as a person - stuff like personal integrity, being themselves and being open and communicative - and much less to do with stuff like kinks and activities.

The kinks are meaningless, it's the relationship what counts.

Edited to add: The kinks as in the BDSM activities. The Kinks as in the 1960's band were quite good.

< Message edited by stellauk -- 3/26/2011 9:50:09 AM >

_____________________________

Usually when you have all the answers for something nobody is interested in listening.

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Post #: 18

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