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RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 3:54:15 PM   
sunshinemiss


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Now, what are we going to do about contraception?



Same thing people have been doing forever - oral and anal sex. Have you seen the Moche Art? It's pretty steamy.

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Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 4:03:22 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Can one of you ladies explain the reasoning on contraception? It seems a little counterproductive, given that we have a planet to repopulate, and hopefully, the best bits of civilization to try and save.

We'll get you a nanny or something, ok?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 4:11:56 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Giving birth is the most dangerous natural thing a woman can do. Without medications, an infection from the tearing is pretty likely. No antibiotics.


_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 4:13:16 PM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline 		Another Alpha here. In that kind of a situation I just have to be a leader. I look to Don Vito Corleone for leadership lessons. He understood that loyalty and generosity to those who were loyal to you was just as important as (nay, more important than) ruthlessness toward your enemies is. But he never let anger or hatred cloud his emotions and he always gave people a chance to be his friend before they became an enemy.

With that in mind I’d like to say (in my best Godfather impersonation)…

I’d like to call a council of all the post apocalyptic leaders in the hope that we can sit down and reason together. You’re all reasonable people here, aren’t you? Violence is so wasteful... so unnecessary. There are many things we can discuss but first I’d light to talk about what we are going to do about this… this…. NocturnalStalker character. You can’t reason with that man! I think we should make him an offer he can’t refuse. To show my good will, I've sent him a basket of oranges.


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Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

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RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 5:03:30 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		You need to be keeping your CB base station manned, Marc. Rednecks took him out two weeks ago. I think he was trying the dream sequence from The Basketball Diaries.

Thanks for the oranges, though. Can we set you up with some seafood and salad from the Salinas Valley/Monterey Peninsula? We should have the sugar plant producing next summer.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 6:22:35 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Maybe we don't have the manpower for mass production, Aylee, but that is no bar on every household having a shop that makes something. Syphon pumps would be an awfully good trade item, I'd think. If we expect every community to be isolated, and self-sufficient, it certainly doesn't work.

Say the 36 million people in California get reduced to 300,000, and this happens without the infrastructure being destroyed. That is still a lot of people to move around, settle where the resources are, and get clearheaded enough to think about the future, in communities of a few dozen or hundred, to a few thousand.

I mentioned benevolent dictatorships earlier, as a model for the "pods," but I think the future would be better off with some sort of larger structure in play quickly, to do the things that cannot be done otherwise. We need a database of who is left, and what they know how to do, for example. Isolation is the enemy, so travel, trade, and communication all need to be secured. The rule of law will need to be sustained, or restored, for there to be any real hope.


Gearing down is an option.

As far as the rule of law is concerned, I think that what you would see happening is all the little enclaves having their own system. These of course could enter into treaties of mutual protection. Because you KNOW that some asshole is gonna try and pull a Sauron. Also you will likely have bands of raiders/bandits and you will want to give health inspections to any wanting to enter your area.

Some things to consider:

There will be idiots who burn varnished woods and such. That crap will eat your brain.
There will likely be some cannibalism. These folks will be a danger in more than one way. That kind of thing messes up your brain but they will also likely carry lots of diseases.
There will be bandits/raiders. You will need a professional army.
Barter will replace money for a while. Later enclaves or larger will need to create their own money system for trade.



_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 7:27:20 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Can one of you ladies explain the reasoning on contraception? It seems a little counterproductive, given that we have a planet to repopulate, and hopefully, the best bits of civilization to try and save.

We'll get you a nanny or something, ok?


i'm not sure if i feel any obligation to try and "repopulate" the planet.

pam

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 7:43:22 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheShrew

Initially, yes. You'd need to become proficient at protecting/sustaining your own lives, as survivors, before creating new lives to protect/sustain.

Exactly. That's why I said "After securing food, water, and weapons, ..." in post#18. I would count on some psychopaths surviving. I'm with A2Mgirl on getting weaponed up right away, if you already aren't.

I think contraception would be a very bad idea, if folks wanted to continue the species. On "Battlestar Galactica" 2.0, Pres. Roslyn prohibited abortion.

Survival first, then work at staving off a new non-tech Dark Ages. At some point, foraging/scavenging will have seriously diminished returns. Establishing self-sufficiency in food will be imperative. So will having a source of clean water.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to TheShrew)
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RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 7:55:12 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


Gearing down is an option.

As far as the rule of law is concerned, I think that what you would see happening is all the little enclaves having their own system. These of course could enter into treaties of mutual protection. Because you KNOW that some asshole is gonna try and pull a Sauron. Also you will likely have bands of raiders/bandits and you will want to give health inspections to any wanting to enter your area.

Some things to consider:

There will be idiots who burn varnished woods and such. That crap will eat your brain.
There will likely be some cannibalism. These folks will be a danger in more than one way. That kind of thing messes up your brain but they will also likely carry lots of diseases.
There will be bandits/raiders. You will need a professional army.
Barter will replace money for a while. Later enclaves or larger will need to create their own money system for trade.


The 2 season show "Jeremiah" w/ Luke Perry is also a post-plague scenario, with isolated groups trading, small bands of psychos terrorizing the decent folk, a group of folks (the good guys) operating out of Cheyenne Mt. trying to establish a new cooperative democratic nation. There's a power-mad dictatorship on the East Coast using slaves to try and rebuild society, and a group stuck away inside an underground bunker which is trying to continue the old US, with a "President" and a sizeable military, with which they are trying to defeat Marcus' group (the Cheyenne Mt/Jeremiah group). It's on netflix streaming vid, and I highly recommend it, as it has excellent writing, acting, and character and plot development. Joe Strazinski, who wrote and produced "Babylon 5" (also outstanding, IMO) did "Jeremiah".


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 8:07:14 PM   
TheShrew


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From: The state I live in? Confusion.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Can one of you ladies explain the reasoning on contraception?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Something like a flu virus would make it hard to know just how long the window is before we would know that we're not going to loose more folks to the illness.  What's the window for us to know that more people won't get sick again?  Kind of a nasty thought, but if it's a virus, I'm betting signs of morning sickness would make people suspicious.


LP's post presented optimum reasoning behind initial usage of contraceptive devices, which is a two part perspective. To ensure you can produce healthy offspring, as well as sustaining the life of the offspring.
{If you or your potential mate were carriers of whatever wiped everyone out and you were starving nomads, why would you not use contraceptives?}

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 8:15:48 PM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Can one of you ladies explain the reasoning on contraception? It seems a little counterproductive, given that we have a planet to repopulate, and hopefully, the best bits of civilization to try and save.

We'll get you a nanny or something, ok?

Maybe I do not want to be a brood mare.

Also, with woman's role in reproduction I would fear a return to women being seen as second class citizens or chattel.

One other thought, if you get all the women pregnant, how is that going to affect your labor shortage and your available number of people to train with and carry arms?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 8:15:55 PM   
zenny


Posts: 275
Joined: 2/13/2008
Status: offline 		If I'm not mistaken NS was just citing some of the content from the Fallout series of games.

Virus, eh? I'm going to make an assumption that immunity, like with the plagues, will be largely inherited. Depending on who I know that survives depends on whether I'd attempt to organize hunter/raiders or an enclave. Regardless of that though, my first stop would definitely be a semi-local National Guard depot. Depending on what's left I'd go to the local major base as well. I'd raid a pharmacy for whatever was left with particular interest in medication related to diabetes, painkillers, and bacterial infections. I'd also horde supplies relating to wounds/lacerations as well. I'd leave some for those who may need it but arrive later. I'd then go after reloading supplies. A strict lights out policy at night until there were enough in the group to mount a decent guard. I think the make or break would be the first month or two for most people/groups.

This all assumes a fast killing virus and not one that destroys society over a month or two. If the latter I would imagine medicines would be largely used up and weapons/ammo wouldn't be centralized and may even be confiscated/destroyed with martial law.

Enjoy the game!
http://pandemic2.org/

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RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 8:20:36 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		I plan on just sitting back, watching the mayhem from a safe distance, staying out of sight and out of mind until it gets quiet, then going about my business. *shrug*

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RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 8:22:51 PM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

The 2 season show "Jeremiah" w/ Luke Perry is also a post-plague scenario, with isolated groups trading, small bands of psychos terrorizing the decent folk, a group of folks (the good guys) operating out of Cheyenne Mt. trying to establish a new cooperative democratic nation. There's a power-mad dictatorship on the East Coast using slaves to try and rebuild society, and a group stuck away inside an underground bunker which is trying to continue the old US, with a "President" and a sizeable military, with which they are trying to defeat Marcus' group (the Cheyenne Mt/Jeremiah group). It's on netflix streaming vid, and I highly recommend it, as it has excellent writing, acting, and character and plot development. Joe Strazinski, who wrote and produced "Babylon 5" (also outstanding, IMO) did "Jeremiah".


I will look for it on DVD.

I have read several sci-fi series with this type of scenario. Not such a high die off though. I also enjoyed Bab 5.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 8:36:59 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Can one of you ladies explain the reasoning on contraception? It seems a little counterproductive, given that we have a planet to repopulate...



i'm not sure if i feel any obligation to try and "repopulate" the planet.

pam


i'm also not sure that that's not simply an excuse for you guys to try to get as much sex as possible.


"...but, baby, it's for the planet, it's for all of HUMANITY!!!..."

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 3/26/2011 8:49:12 PM >

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RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 9:06:29 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

The 2 season show "Jeremiah" w/ Luke Perry is also a post-plague scenario, with isolated groups trading, small bands of psychos terrorizing the decent folk, a group of folks (the good guys) operating out of Cheyenne Mt. trying to establish a new cooperative democratic nation. There's a power-mad dictatorship on the East Coast using slaves to try and rebuild society, and a group stuck away inside an underground bunker which is trying to continue the old US, with a "President" and a sizeable military, with which they are trying to defeat Marcus' group (the Cheyenne Mt/Jeremiah group). It's on netflix streaming vid, and I highly recommend it, as it has excellent writing, acting, and character and plot development. Joe Strazinski, who wrote and produced "Babylon 5" (also outstanding, IMO) did "Jeremiah".


I will look for it on DVD.

I have read several sci-fi series with this type of scenario. Not such a high die off though. I also enjoyed Bab 5.
The "twist" in "Jeremiah" is that the plague only kills adults. Many of the kids die due to starvation, I think; I don't recall this being explicitly stated. Some of the kids grow up to be "feral" adults for obvious reasons.

If you don't have netflix, it's only $8.95 per month, IIRC, for unlimited streaming video and 1 DVD out at a time. I pay about 20 bucks for 3 DVDs out at a time. I use it instead of cable. I have a friend with ATT U-verse who lets me record cable shows. I think cable is just too expensive for what ya get; if I were a sprots fan, I suppose I might think differently.

Moving along, I think zenny has a point about immunity being confered.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 9:37:18 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Standing armies, Aylee? I can understand where the communities would certainly want a militia structure and self-defense plan, but that seems a bit over the top. The exception might be the groups that establish control over key resources. The wind farms up the road from me are a good example. An electrical power supply is going to be a resource worth hanging onto, or the massive storage tanks at oil refineries, or a commercial distribution center, at least for a while.

Bandits in the hills, and crazy, not-so-benevolent dictators? Sure. That's a reason why we need to develop some kind of structure on a bigger scale. If we are going to regain civilization, we need to be talking, and cooperating. Maybe a Republic?



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 9:44:15 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09



i'm not sure if i feel any obligation to try and "repopulate" the planet.

pam

i'm also not sure that that's not simply an excuse for you guys to try to get as much sex as possible.


"...but, baby, it's for the planet, it's for all of HUMANITY!!!..."

pam



It isn't something you have to decide about right now, Pam. It does seem to me though, that you have the sort of mind and wit it would be a shame to deny to the gene pool of the future. Think it over.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/26/2011 10:46:57 PM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Standing armies, Aylee? I can understand where the communities would certainly want a militia structure and self-defense plan, but that seems a bit over the top.


Anything else seems idiotic to me.

You would like some oranges and are suggesting some seafood and salad.

Bob, after fishing all day is rather tired. Joe, after tending his salad garden is rather tired as well. Me? I have been pruning and picking an orange grove. That is rather tiring.

NOW you want me to go and drill on maneuvers and marksmanship? Screw that for a lark!

You also want me to learn logistics and troop discipline? Are you fisking crazy?

Who is in charge of this zoo anyways?

Oh. We are just an armed mob. We have no trust in leadership, we are not really sure of what we are doing as this is a second job that really cuts into rest time, and why should I trust these yay-whos standing in line with me to cover my back? Why do I take orders from you anyways?

Oh, and just WHO is going to protect me while I make the trade exchange?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: It's the End of the World as We Know It... - 3/27/2011 10:24:46 AM   
NocturnalStalker


Posts: 3858
Joined: 12/4/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

If I'm not mistaken NS was just citing some of the content from the Fallout series of games.




Stimpaks and bottle caps.

I'd also convince some nobody to blow up an atomic bomb in this Avalon you all have.


_____________________________

"The road I walk is paved in gold to glorify my platinum soul."

(in reply to zenny)
Profile   Post #: 80
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