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RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/26/2011 6:24:49 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Like I said, If what we are being told is true.

It is simple for anyone to see, I don't trust this government, and for that matter, any government we had had in recent years, they don't act for us, only against us.

Sure they chuck us a tidbit every now and again to keep us keen, but they are not in it for us, are they ?

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(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/26/2011 6:29:28 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn




"Well they look good on paper but theyre total crap and wholly unsustainable in actual practice. "



Yup. Social programs, higher taxes-no loopholes, actual regulation in place, actually enforced ...



This will drive a country to ruin.

Witness Sweden, Germany, Denmark, Switzerland .... 


All net exporters, all with net positive private savings, all with manageable unemployment even in bad times, Sweden with government budget surpluses, ...



Well....not quite sure if I would praise Germany as sooooo manageable in regards to unemployment...considering how many left the country to find work abroad when we had 5 million people unemployed in 2004/2005

Meanwhile its better again yes...but thats not that difficult with plenty young people having left (where not all of them will return) and Germany struggling with a very low birth rate which is taking its affect at present...and a low birth rate is somewhat not the topic in the news in the UK

quote:


Wake up, people!

Prevent the catastrophe of Germany; highly educated and well paid people!


I think you are the first one who acknowledged that in the last seven years...usually people belief I would have needed the UK to get a qualification

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 3/26/2011 6:30:25 PM >

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(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/26/2011 6:32:13 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Sure they chuck us a tidbit every now and again to keep us keen, but they are not in it for us, are they ?


Lol, like the recent announcement that the petrol prices will drop by 1p at 6pm and then 1 or 2 days later it was up again

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/26/2011 7:22:55 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		The Brits are finally acting more Irish-  Sorta - now if they could also act Icelandic- and scourge the planet- the City of London- together with us Yanks booting Wall street- we could have a debt jubilee- and monetary reform under a glass steagall.

In the mean time- the royals getting married in April ought to be one spectacle.

Please send money to the bankers union fund!

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RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/26/2011 7:56:09 PM   
Edwynn


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Joined: 10/26/2008
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I know that ~7% unemployment even before the financial crisis was not exactly a good number, but it takes a long time to absorb a ~16 millionen einwohner former communist region all at once, no? Nach der Wiedervereinigung. I'm not sure if any other country could have accomplished that without even much further damage.

As for the "well trained" comment, I was going by the graduates of die Realschule oder Hauptschule as much as I was das Gymnasium und die Hochschule/Universität. Even at the lesser amount of schooling the people put into the work force are at least well trained, unlike in the US where the attitude is "well, you were supposed to go to college, and if you're not doing that, then we don't know what of anything good to help you out otherwise, sorry." I'm exaggerating slightly, there are a few decent tech programs at a few high schools, but the overall picture is quite dim for high school-only graduates, not just in terms of status of diploma, but in actual preparedness for much of anything. No wonder that one HAS to get a college degree here to get paid beyond poverty wages.

As for the university rankings, most consider them a joke, especially the US News and World Report rankings. The schools that flood the most prospective students with applications knowing they only have a limited number of openings get themselves a high grade for "selectivity." What a joke. Flooding the academic journals with a high number of papers also gets a high ranking for that school. And the US and UK private and even some few public universities pay the professors a good bit more than any continental European universities, and unlike Germany, do not have enough from their own ranks to fill the positions, so there is a greater percentage of professors from other countries, which get's the university a high grade for "diversity." Another high grade for the world rankings!

But my actual point was that there are a number of different ways to operate a country, and Denmark, Switzerland, Germany, France, etc. all do OK for themselves, and are not sliding into the abyss that some here in the US think we would automatically be going into if we did something so responsible as to actually enforce taxes on the top .01% of earners here, or have usable health care, etc. They are not all just different than the US or UK, they are quite different from each other in their selection of priorities and policies, and the mode of implementation of all that.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/26/2011 8:15:22 PM >

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/26/2011 8:31:15 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn




I know that ~7% unemployment even before the financial crisis was not exactly a good number, but it takes a long time to absorb a ~16 millionen einwohner former communist region all at once, no? Nach der Wiedervereinigung. I'm not sure if any other country could have accomplished that without even much further damage.

As for the "well trained" comment, I was going by the graduates of die Realschule oder Hauptschule as much as I was das Gymnasium und die Hochschule/Universität. Even at the lesser amount of schooling the people put into the work force are at least well trained, unlike in the US where the attitude is "well, you were supposed to go to college, and if you're not doing that, then we don't know what of anything good to help you out otherwise, sorry." I'm exaggerating slightly, there are a few decent tech programs at a few high schools, but the overall picture is quite dim for high school-only graduates, not just in terms of status of diploma, but in actual preparedness for much of anything. No wonder that one HAS to get a college degree here to get paid beyond poverty wages.

As for the university rankings, most consider them a joke, especially the US News and World Report rankings. The schools that flood the most prospective students with applications knowing they only have a limited number of openings get themselves a high grade for "selectivity." What a joke. Flooding the academic journals with a high number of papers also gets a high ranking for that school. And the US and UK private and even some few public universities pay a good bit more than any continental European universities. Another high grade for the world rankings!

But my actual point was that there are a number of different ways to operate a country, and Denmark, Switzerland, Germany, France, etc. all do OK for themselves, and are not sliding into the abyss that some here in the US think we would automatically be going into if we did something so responsible as to actually enforce taxes on the top .01% of earners here, or have usable health care, etc. They are not all just different than the US or UK, they are quite different from each other in their selection of priorities and policies, and the mode of implementation of all that.







That was/is an amazing achievement (the assimilation of the old DDR is still ongoing, in my somewhat uninformed opinion). That's the equivalent of the US assimilating 3 Canadas, population-wise).

IMO, the US would be much better off if those of us of German descent were in power, and not the English wannabe aristocrats and the Scots-Irish rednecks. Hell, the last "European" (non-Brit/Irish) president we had was Eisenhower. Hell, the ancestors of Bernis Sanders, the only Socialist in Congress, probably is descended from Tyroleans by way of England.

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(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/26/2011 8:33:40 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		assuming that the elected reps have any real power.....   HA

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RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/26/2011 8:40:48 PM   
frazzle


Posts: 1212
Joined: 6/20/2009
Status: offline 		A minority of about 500 out of 250,000 caused trouble. learn to read.

Just to address your comment on petrol prices. 1p was taken off prices, if local garages decided to ignore that its not the governments fault.

I gave up reading how great germany was etc, as if it was that great why did you come here for your education, and why are you living off our benefits system, refusing to take a job, just because it doesnt match with what you think you should be being paid.

Hell hun you failed the course first time round, isnt going to put you to the top of the pile is it.

You hate the UK so much, go home, without expecting a Dim to pay your moving expenses.

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/26/2011 8:55:27 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Well they look good on paper but theyre total crap and wholly unsustainable in actual practice.



But of course we need to bail out corporations when they get into trouble.

That's not a social program?





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 3/26/2011 8:56:48 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/26/2011 9:20:27 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline



Privatizing profit, socializing risk.


Otherwise known as the "Schools no! CDOs and foreclosures yes!" program.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/26/2011 9:21:19 PM >

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RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/27/2011 3:03:59 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		We should buckle up. When Cantor and Crowd propose an actual budget, we may have our own riots, and our tax-consuming-class is, I think and fear, far more violent than theirs.
Of course, we're FAR better armed....

Anyway, socialism may end with a bang rather than a whimper.

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/27/2011 3:41:03 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The 1p was taken off of petrol wholesale prices, prior to 6 pm on budget day. Prices wont drop until the old stock has been sold.

Socialism wont end any time soon. Do you not recall the mess unbridled capitalism got us into in 2008, lets not forget that.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/27/2011 3:45:47 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Like I said, If what we are being told is true.

It is simple for anyone to see, I don't trust this government, and for that matter, any government we had had in recent years, they don't act for us, only against us.

Sure they chuck us a tidbit every now and again to keep us keen, but they are not in it for us, are they ?


Thats your opinion. I am wondering what alternative type of government you would wish for ?  What is simple for anyone to see is we have a massive deficit that is unsustainable. You have yet to point out any sort of system that would work in its place.

IE, how would you maintain services and benefits, pay off the debt, and not increase the tax burden ?

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/27/2011 3:58:49 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Socialism wont end any time soon.


quote:

What is simple for anyone to see is we have a massive deficit that is unsustainable.


QED, in your own words: The death of euro-socialism

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/27/2011 4:10:03 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Socialism wont end any time soon.


quote:

What is simple for anyone to see is we have a massive deficit that is unsustainable.


QED, in your own words: The death of euro-socialism


Except the debt wasnt caused by socialist policies per se. It was caused by reckless spending on the part of the previous administration, allied with the 2008 banking crisis in which we bailed out capitalists.

Sooner rather than later, Europe will get the balance right between the two systems. Capitalism, along with the proper checks and balances to avoid another 2008 style crisis, along with properly funded and managed socialist policies.

(in reply to truckinslave)
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RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/27/2011 4:43:40 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

We should buckle up. When Cantor and Crowd propose an actual budget, we may have our own riots, and our tax-consuming-class is, I think and fear, far more violent than theirs.
Of course, we're FAR better armed....

Anyway, socialism may end with a bang rather than a whimper.

You sound so proud of that..
good luck with it
who said it couldnt/wouldnt  happen i n america?



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RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/27/2011 5:18:23 AM   
Edwynn


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Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline



He is displaying what is wrong in the US; outright denial of reality. He is not aware that the UK and Europe are not one and the same thing.

By the standards of people such as this, Germany, Denmark, and most especially Sweden are well into Marxist territory.

Guess what? it's not going away anytime soon in any of those countries.


Year after year of positive balance of payments, vs. the US not-going-away-anytime-soon current account deficits, positive net savings in those countries vs. the US "of course I can afford it, I just got a new card with a higher limit," actual enforced market regulation and enforcement of tax laws even for the wealthiest, far fewer poor people (these last two items playing a large part in why their public debt is so low), vs. the US being well into third world territory regarding infant mortality, incarceration rate, and gini index (distribution of wealth).

Some people are apparently sufficiently deaf as to have missed the large multi-trillion dollar bang of the financial markets' shot to the economy and directly to the taxpayers in the US.

Death of Euro-socialism? Positive current account balances, well paid workers, consistent positive net savings ...  yes, the signs are all there.


The countries that controlled the bankers sufficiently are surviving OK. The countries that did not control the banks well enough are the ones suffering.

Financio-socialism (bail-outs) vs. social well being? What's the choice? The answer is manifesting every week, every month,  with the as-expected denial of reality all the way.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/27/2011 5:31:44 AM >

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RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/27/2011 5:57:01 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

... and our tax-consuming-class is, I think and fear, far more violent than theirs.




You ARE joking, right?

Last I looked, the tax-consuming-class, otherwise known as the financial industry, has the most well funded lobby representation in DC. I don't know if I would classify them as cool and calm, but considering their huge success in obtaining super tanker after super tanker of tax dollars, I feel safe in estimating that violence is quite far from their mind.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/27/2011 6:00:14 AM >

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/27/2011 7:50:12 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn




quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

... and our tax-consuming-class is, I think and fear, far more violent than theirs.




You ARE joking, right?

Last I looked, the tax-consuming-class, otherwise known as the financial industry, has the most well funded lobby representation in DC. I don't know if I would classify them as cool and calm, but considering their huge success in obtaining super tanker after super tanker of tax dollars, I feel safe in estimating that violence is quite far from their mind.







I agree.  I am with the liberals on this one. 

GE paid no taxes.   Kill the peasants.     NOT

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Violence As Workers Protest Against Cuts - 3/27/2011 8:27:45 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

We should buckle up. When Cantor and Crowd propose an actual budget, we may have our own riots, and our tax-consuming-class is, I think and fear, far more violent than theirs.
Of course, we're FAR better armed....

Anyway, socialism may end with a bang rather than a whimper.


Ah yes, living in dreamland again are we?

Good old Eric is going to save the country.

I seem to remember some pretty big deficits when the Republicans were in charge before.

But Cantor says they have really, really changed.

What a joke.  Even funnier is that you buy into the bullshit.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 40
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