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RE: How To Prevent Terrorism Without War - 3/30/2011 9:38:12 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I don' think it is that much to do with your freedoms compared to their lack of freedom, because many countries other than America also have similar freedoms, but maybe why people target America, is because of American overseas policies, i.e. sticking it's nose in where it is not wanted by any save those that directly benefit, i.e. the political elite and /or the military, who then continue to 'guide' their people in a certain fashion.



Oh come on!

America installs democracy mob rule what more could htey want?


According to Perkins, he began writing Confessions of an Economic Hit Man in the 1980s, but "threats or bribes always convinced me to stop." According to his book, Perkins' function was to convince the political and financial leadership of underdeveloped countries to accept enormous development loans from institutions like the World Bank and USAID. Saddled with debts they could not hope to pay, those countries were forced to acquiesce to political pressure from the United States on a variety of issues. Perkins argues in his book that developing nations were effectively neutralized politically, had their wealth gaps driven wider and economies crippled in the long run. In this capacity Perkins recounts his meetings with some prominent individuals, including Graham Greene and Omar Torrijos. Perkins describes the role of an EHM as follows:
Economic hit men (EHMs) are highly-paid professionals who cheat countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars. They funnel money from the World Bank, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), and other foreign "aid" organizations into the coffers of huge corporations and the pockets of a few wealthy families who control the planet's natural resources. Their tools included fraudulent financial reports, rigged elections, payoffs, extortion, sex, and murder. They play a game as old as empire, but one that has taken on new and terrifying dimensions during this time of globalization.
The epilogue to the 2006 edition provides a rebuttal to the current move by the G8 nations to forgive Third World debt. Perkins charges that the proposed conditions for this debt forgiveness require countries to privatise their health, education, electric, water and other public services. Those countries would also have to discontinue subsidies and trade restrictions that support local business, but accept the continued subsidization of certain G8 businesses by the US and other G8 countries, and the erection of trade barriers on imports that threaten G8 industries.


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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: How To Prevent Terrorism Without War - 3/30/2011 10:46:56 PM   
SexyBossyBBW


Posts: 1693
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline 		Confessions of an economic hit man was a stunning, and riveting book, to me.
I still can't believe he wrote it, and lived to tell.
Maybe freedom of speach is good for something. M

ETA: What's QFT?
quote:

hlen5
And again, QFT


< Message edited by SexyBossyBBW -- 3/30/2011 10:54:06 PM >

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RE: How To Prevent Terrorism Without War - 3/31/2011 4:06:25 PM   
hlen5


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Joined: 3/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyBossyBBW

Confessions of an economic hit man was a stunning, and riveting book, to me.
I still can't believe he wrote it, and lived to tell.
Maybe freedom of speach is good for something. M

ETA: What's QFT?
quote:

hlen5
And again, QFT



Quoted For Truth. (Sorta Hear!Hear!! Here here??)

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RE: How To Prevent Terrorism Without War - 3/31/2011 4:11:35 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

It completely amazes me... we have been fighting terrorism for almost a decade, and nobody has sat down and found out WHY terrorists attack us.  Lots of hypotheses, and Bush made it a point of honor not to make any changes to make ourselves less attack-worthy, but... why not just look into their motivations, instead of impugning them?


Steven, it's because of "Islam" but,.....no-one wants to talk about that.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: How To Prevent Terrorism Without War - 3/31/2011 4:30:50 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		You have to listen to the moderates on the opposite side of the table or you'll not make any progress. Some want to kill you because they are monsters but there are some who are aggrieved by western actions and if the moderates are basically saying a watered down version of the diatribe spouted by extremists then you have an obvious way of taking their argument out from under them by listening to them.

Or you can just put your fingers in your ears, hope for the best.

The new political reality is that moderates soon become extremists if they feel they are not being heard, so there has to be movement on legitimate concerns. Concerns we could easily give ground on and be no worse off.


< Message edited by FullCircle -- 3/31/2011 4:38:19 PM >

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RE: How To Prevent Terrorism Without War - 3/31/2011 7:15:36 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

You have to listen to the moderates on the opposite side of the table or you'll not make any progress. Some want to kill you because they are monsters but there are some who are aggrieved by western actions and if the moderates are basically saying a watered down version of the diatribe spouted by extremists then you have an obvious way of taking their argument out from under them by listening to them.

Or you can just put your fingers in your ears, hope for the best.

The new political reality is that moderates soon become extremists if they feel they are not being heard, so there has to be movement on legitimate concerns. Concerns we could easily give ground on and be no worse off.

Agreed,but....can we afford to do that at the point of a gun.What I mean by that is that the state of conflict itself mutes any ability to examine what might actually be legitimate grievances.
The inability to lay down the bombs and the guns delayed peace in Northern Ireland for a generation....in Palestine it still serves to deny the Palestinians a homeland of their own.


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RE: How To Prevent Terrorism Without War - 3/31/2011 8:53:40 PM   
tweakabelle


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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

It completely amazes me... we have been fighting terrorism for almost a decade, and nobody has sat down and found out WHY terrorists attack us.  Lots of hypotheses, and Bush made it a point of honor not to make any changes to make ourselves less attack-worthy, but... why not just look into their motivations, instead of impugning them?

Can I applaud your suggestion please?

Like SexyBossyBBW, it saddens me that Bush's superficial explanation of terrorism ("they hate our freedoms") seems to have gained uncritical acceptance. Apart from being totally self-serving, it defies common sense.

Looking around the world at the main arenas where terrorism is a factor one finds some combination of the following factors present:
*foreign occupation;
*backward levels of social and economic development;
*unrepresentative, dictatorial, incompetent or repressive government;
*a long standing unresolved significant sense of grievance;
*a history of colonialism or a significant colonial inheritance;
*significant support base among sections of the local population for radical actions/change;
*a consistent failure by authorities to address the above realities through political policies/changes - often this failure is in fact a point blank refusal allied with brutal counter-measures; and
*these consistent political failures fuelling adoption of extremist ideologies.

It surely goes without saying that without insight into the factors that cause terrorism, the problem is most unlikely to addressed successfully. If the suggestion that the origins of terrorism lie in real social political and economic conditions is valid, then it follows that the focus of current counter-terrorist strategies that emphasise military and ideological matters is misplaced. Such strategies are unlikely to generate the results we demand.

Doesn't that reflect the reality of the current situation - the apparent inability of the current strategies to deal with the issue successfully?



< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/31/2011 9:13:29 PM >

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RE: How To Prevent Terrorism Without War - 4/1/2011 4:48:42 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		You've missed Israel off the list, tweak: it's hard to shake the feeling that a lot of them evil Mooslim theocracies find the 'States' support for Israel just as offensive as the rest.

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RE: How To Prevent Terrorism Without War - 4/1/2011 10:02:48 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

You've missed Israel off the list, tweak: it's hard to shake the feeling that a lot of them evil Mooslim theocracies find the 'States' support for Israel just as offensive as the rest.


No doubt discussion of the Palestinian/Isreali situation will come up sooner or later if the thread continues ..... All of the conditions listed in my previous post apply to the Palestine/Israel situation.

Interestingly Israel claims to have been fighting terrorism continuously since the 1950s. No sign of it succeeding yet is there? So that's hardly a model worth copying. But the Israeli counter-terror strategy might be an good example of what NOT to do, if a peaceful outcome is your goal.


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Profile   Post #: 29
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