A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (Full Version)

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stellauk -> A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 3:18:54 PM)

I've just come back from a local meeting with a political party and I got into an interesting discussion with a couple of local government councillors on the issue of diversity and the possibilities of including BDSM within the framework of diversity legislation.

One of the things that was mentioned was the concept of bringing a D/s relationship into the realm of marriage equality.

Obviously, this would not mean that you could have a collaring ceremony at your local church (the Pope would perhaps blow a gasket at such a proposal) but what is there to stop say, a legal collaring ceremony as a sort of civil partnership, but instead for same sex couples one for couples who have a D/s relationship.

As far as the situation stands in the UK the Equality Act is becoming law, but the Government have thrown out the marriage equality part of the Equality Act which would have given couples a choice between marriage and civil partnerships irrespective of their sexual orientation.

One view which was mentioned was that legal recognition for a D/s relationship via a civil collaring ceremony perhaps highlights the fact that a heterosexual couple may not wish to get married but instead prefer a civil partnership,

Another view is that BDSM is a private matter and legal recognition for what people do in the privacy of their own homes isn't necessary.

I'm sure that there are many other views on this subject. I felt that this idea was worthy of discussion.

Therefore what is your view on this? Would you be for a legally recognized civil collaring ceremony or against?

How do you see this issue?



peppermint -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 3:29:10 PM)

Your proposal is just too complicated to work, at least in the US.  BDSM and the things we do are illegal here.  So how can the government allow for some sort of legal civil union when it's illegal to do that stuff?  Second, if you join people together you have to have a legal way to split them apart.  That often means a trip to court or at least the need for attorneys along with attorney fees. 



glitter -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 3:30:44 PM)

I don't think we need special treatment regarding marriage, we can choose church or civil. In a civil ceremony, you pretty much tell the official what you would like them to say. So change it to Love Honour and Obey....Put the collar on instead of the ring. No big deal.

If we push for separate legal marriage stuff, don't we just segregate ourselves a little more? Is it anyone's business how we get ourselves turned on? Or how we like our sex with whips? Think they really want to know...or even care?

We are not special or unique. We just like to talk about it a lot. This stuff has been happening since time began.



leadership527 -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 3:32:22 PM)

In the US this is already a fact if you're het. In some states it's also a fact if you're same-sex. Things must be somehow different in the UK?

What I'm specifically thinking is that if I was marrying Carol it would be up to Carol and I to design our ceremony, vows, etc. If he had a BDSM-ey spin on that, then that's our call to make.



peachgirl -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 4:03:27 PM)

I think if you are looking at it from a legal POV, attempting to first define a D/s relationship and then putting it under legislature would be extremely difficult in the US. As the US is having terrible time legalizing same-sex marriages, introducing D/s into the situation would be next to impossible.

I believe common law marriage laws vary from state to state, wouldn't a D/s relationship fall under that definition after a certain amount of time?




ladynlord -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 4:25:23 PM)


quote:


I believe common law marriage laws vary from state to state, wouldn't a D/s relationship fall under that definition after a certain amount of time?


Good point! I believe that it would depend upon the state and their particular legislative definition of "common law marriage". If it read something like "Two (or more) persons living as spouses" then perhaps. But I don't know of any statutes that currently are interpreted to allow same.



hardcybermaster -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 5:05:47 PM)

what makes a D/s relationship so special or different that it deserves its own legally binding set of rules and regulations? Two friends of mine are training for the olympics in london,they are a couple and they live a 24/7 "athletic" lifestyle but if they got married they wouldn't think for a second that they were any different from any other couple considering marriage.
Bdsm is not any more special or amazing than most other peoples lifes so I see no reason to treat it as such. Have some kind of marriage or joining ceremony with your friends and loved ones if you feel the need but don't try and elevate or differentiate kinky sods from everyone else



DarkSteven -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 5:13:48 PM)

There are two aspects to a wedding - the legal aspects of being married, and the pageantry.

You can do any ceremony whatsoever for the pageantry aspect.

Are you proposing a legal status between two (or maybe more) people that is not a marriage?



kiwisub12 -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 5:26:40 PM)

Seems to me that if i am having a civil ceremony, as long as i find a liberal judge, i could have any sort of "trappings" i want - just as long as the words - legally married - are incorporated.

But for me, i'm not going to go out in public in my Sirs favourite outfit - i'd get arrested. Which would sort of defeat the whole civil ceremony thing. [:D]



SirRussellP -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 6:09:02 PM)

I think you all missed the fact that she didn't say it was to be combined with a marriage but to be a civil ceremony acknowledging the D/s or M/s relationship only.  Though I do suppose that some would want both.

Think of that in terms of acceptance by the public and the law.  Here is the states we are probably decades away from anything like it.  I would say think though of the protection it would offer both parties to this union, no fear that one or the other would be arrested because of an uptight ER Doc or nurse, a means to spell out in the public record what you are contracting too. 

Russell



littlewonder -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 6:25:26 PM)

I don't see my relationship as anything other than a typical old fashioned traditional relationship...man as head of household...thus I see no reason to have some kind of special ceremony.

I think this idea of needing a special ceremony is just absurd but that's just me.




peppermint -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 6:52:42 PM)

quote:

I believe common law marriage laws vary from state to state, wouldn't a D/s relationship fall under that definition after a certain amount of time?


It very likely could fall into the definition of common law depending on the state.  Fortunately in Montana where we have our official residence, you are common law married IF you present yourself to others as a married couple or have the intent of being married and live together for a time.  We very carefully tell people we are not married and have no intention of ever becoming married.  We maintain separate finances. 



IronBear -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 7:05:24 PM)

Here, a 24/7 relationship with a woman (assuming you are not poly and have the legal spouse tucked under the bed), your union would be recognized and the woman seen as the Common Law Wife which is legally recognized in this country. Things are easier since years ago they tossed out the accusatory part of the big "D" situation so the only grounds accepted is irrevocable breakdown of the relationship.. No blame "D"'s make more sense and less legal wrangling over property. Now as a civil celebrant who legalizes hand-fastings ) provided they are set for life), there should be no problems in legally performing a wedding ceremony using the collaring ceremony as the format..



domiguy -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 7:08:42 PM)

I wanna have a collaring ceremony that the state recognizes as being stupid.



IronBear -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 7:11:52 PM)

ROTFLMFAO

[;)][:)]



littlewonder -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 7:15:46 PM)

here in PA, as of 2005 common law marriage is no longer recognized so it wouldn't help in the situation described by the op.

When I was married in Illinois many many years ago we just applied for a marriage license at the courthouse, filled out a paper and married that same day by the justice of the peace.

...asked us if we wanted to get married, we said we did and he pronounced us husband and wife. How much more civil can ya get?




IronBear -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 7:22:34 PM)

Did he say "Please"? [8|][;)]



Palliata -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 8:23:44 PM)

Frankly I'm not in favor of state-sponsored marriage, let alone state-sponsored BDSM. Certainly you wouldn't be able to set up a legal slave-contract style agreement for the ceremony, so it would pretty much be a non-binding resolution. In the end, the need for state recognition of your relationship is purely for the purposes of financial intermingling and taxation, neither of which are affected significantly by a BDSM slant to a relationship, so you may as well get married and call it even. Love, honor, obey, and so forth.



Muttling -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 8:58:52 PM)

What difference does the ceremony make with respect to the law?   In most states, heterosexuals go to the court house to get the marriage license and the ceremony is of no consequence for the law.   In some states, homosexuals do the same.   Whether it is a collaring ceremony or a vanilla wedding ceremony, what difference does it make?



Palliata -> RE: A Civil Collaring Ceremony - Legal recognition for D/s (3/29/2011 9:58:04 PM)

That's very much my point - the ceremony you undertake can be whatever you like, there's no reason for a special category for collarings versus marriages.



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