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RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 10:28:09 PM   
Sirandlittle1


Posts: 538
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		At best, mismatched levels of play.
alternatives? sadistic top over his edge of either self control, or being topped from the bottom.
Lots to learn from this for them both.
The inner critique he displays, talking in the 3rd person (not in a Gor way either), all indicative of a fruit loop.
In a consenting, equal play level, trusting partner, nothing wrong with this at all.
Id not of tried to play this hard, with a fluffy style player. Never gonna work.
6 months of abscence, usually means revision.

(in reply to ArchangelMichael)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 10:29:11 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Proper mindset begins long before a "scene" begins.  Proper mindset involves much more than reminding a submissive who and what she is.  Does she understand who and what she is? What does that mean to her?  What does it mean to her in regards to herself and in her relationship to the Dominant?  Is this who and what she wants to be?  What does it mean to her to serve him?  What does it mean to her to have him as her Dominant?  What does she want from their marriage?  Do they want to live a D/s dynamic full time, or in the bedroom only?  Does she understand her desire to submit, and where it comes from? 

And him - what does that mean, "Master Zone?"  Is he not a Master to her full time?  Do they take breaks from this?  Why does he have to "remember" what it feels like to take control?  Does he only control periodically?  What prompts it?  What ends it?

These are questions they should be asking themselves and each other.  Before ever picking up an implement to use on her, they should understand what their dynamic is, talk talk talk talk talk about it, and agree together on what they both want. Without that, situations like what was posted occur.  D/s, M/s is not operated on a light switch.

(in reply to ArchangelMichael)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 10:31:06 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Michael,

What I read in your scene description and your posts here is was someone more concerned with their image than in what happened between you and your partner.

Please believe me when I say I am not attacking you, shit happens, you haven't even begun to fuck up as badly as I have done.  That said, in my opinion, you have been fed a complete line of bullshit about what being a dominant is all about.

Fuck everyone else at a play party except the person you are playing with.  Your wife loves you or she wouldn't have married you.  She wanted a soft scene you wanted a hard one.  You could have thumped your chest and say "my way or the highway" or you could have whispered something in her ear to make her want to let you hurt her.   You hadn't played in six months, I am sorry but you let your cock run the scene and you fucked it up, just have the balls to own that. 

Your diary isn't written to her, it is written to the audience you want to judge and approve your actions.  Well Michael, I for one don't approve.

Now all that said, buck up and learn to talk to her, learn to smile at her and get her to ask for one more, show her how happy it makes you to hurt her.  Some call it leading when you have a bayonet in someones back, real men (and women) lead from the front and make the people who follow them WANT to follow them.  Make her WANT you to hurt her if that is what you need, but it isn't her failing if you can't do that, you have either chosen the wrong partner, or lack the ability (and experience, time in scene, etc.) to do that yet.

I think the different responses you got here is there are more people here who have done this and seen it done, and know people who have done it often enough to see through your bullshit.

Yes, I am being harsh, but please note, I am in no way telling you not to go on, not to keep trying, not to give up.  I am being harsh hoping you will step up to the plate, pick up the flogger and try again.  I highly highly recommend that you hold her in your lap and read a few books to her aloud.  Start with two from Dossie Easton (I know I sound like a record) called The Bottoming Book (more hard core D/s in that tiny book than many with flashier titles) and The Topping Book.  Dominants are not perfect gods, real ones fuck up, screw up, break things, but when we do we stop and look in the mirror to find the problem.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 11:41:11 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

So I stopped the scene. How about that, a Dom calling a safeword? I called fucking red on her ass. Because I couldn’t take the manipulation I felt was coming from her. It wasn’t intentional manipulation on her part, I know that. But I wasn’t in control of the scene anymore. It wasn’t my scene anymore. So I stopped it.


My thoughts: The guy posted this to get some sort of validation that he did the right thing and that he was entitled to the feelings he had about the scene. My first reaction comes from the second to last sentence. A scene is not about the Master .. nor is it about the slave.. it's about the flow between the two of them. It's not his scene or her scene.. it's 'their' scene. Same old "me" "me" "me" instead of 'we' 'we' 'we.' Getting frustrated because the slave is giving honest feedback seems to me to be the sign of an insecure or new dominant. It sounds like he would rather she had lied or just been silent and not give feedback at all unless it was what he wanted to hear which, of course, is not the purpose of feedback. It wasn't the feedback that ruined the scene though.. it was the frustration and boredom and trying to push something that needed more time which ruined it. That and putting expectation on something that should be more 'go with the flow'.

In the hands of a competent Top, the scene would probably have gone much smoother, but in this case, it wasn't fun for either party, so what's the point. The Top wasn't willing to work out the kinks of the scene, the bottom wasn't given an opportunity to help with working out the kinks and when she tried she was made the brunt of frustration and anger and since it was too much trouble to control his own reactions, boredom and disappointment, it's probably better for all concerned that he did stop it.

All around sounds like a mess which could have been easily avoided with a simple change of attitude.

Celeste





< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 5/7/2006 11:54:41 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 11:49:07 PM   
ArchangelMichael


Posts: 243
Joined: 8/21/2004
From: New Orleans, LA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Michael,

What I read in your scene description and your posts here is was someone more concerned with their image than in what happened between you and your partner.


It wasn't my scene and I didn't post this situation to Live Journal. I'm just an outsider putting my two cents in on this conversation as everyone else has been. But I also happen to be a member of the male_dom Live Journal community where it was originally posted. Part of my purpose here was to relay that two important pieces to the post were left out when it was re-posted here and I believe that didn't allow people to give it a fair assessment.

I also wanted to relate that I have been in a similar situation with a former submissive of mine, so I know what he's feeling to some extent.

I spoke about "him" in third person because, well, I'm not the guy who wrote the original post!

I agree that the guy needs some work on being a Dom. Like I said I get the impression that he's a novice. I've, personally, learned a heck of a lot more since my own similar experience.

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 11:54:42 PM   
ArchangelMichael


Posts: 243
Joined: 8/21/2004
From: New Orleans, LA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

So I stopped the scene. How about that, a Dom calling a safeword? I called fucking red on her ass. Because I couldn’t take the manipulation I felt was coming from her. It wasn’t intentional manipulation on her part, I know that. But I wasn’t in control of the scene anymore. It wasn’t my scene anymore. So I stopped it.


My thoughts is the guy posted this to get some sort of validation that he did the right thing and that he was entitled to the feelings he had about the scene. My first reaction comes from the second to last sentence. A scene is not about the Master .. nor is it about the slave.. it's about the flow between the two of them. It's not his scene or her scene.. it's 'their' scene. Same old "me" "me" "me" instead of 'we' 'we' 'we.' Getting frustrated because the slave is giving honest feedback seems to me to be the sign of an insecure or new dominant. It sounds like he would rather she had lied or just been silent and not give feedback at all unless it was what he wanted to hear which, of course, is not the purpose of feedback. It wasn't the feedback that ruined the scene though.. it was the frustration and boredom and trying to push something that needed more time which ruined it. That and putting expectation on something that should be more 'go with the flow'.

In the hands of a competent Top, the scene would probably have gone much smoother, but in this case, it wasn't fun for either party, so what's the point. The Top wasn't willing to work out the kinks of the scene, the bottom wasn't given an opportunity to help with working out the kinks and when she tried she was made the brunt of frustration and anger and since it was too much trouble to control his own reactions, boredom and disappointment, it's probably better for all concerned that he did stop it.

All around sounds like a mess which could have been easily avoided with a simple change of attitude.

Celeste


I do agree with you. His attitude certainly could have been better. At this point in my journey, I would have handled the situation differently. I just hope he actually learned something from this.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/8/2006 5:24:19 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

It was posted in a public forum on livejournal...not an excerpt from a personal journal.

So you didn't ask permission?

Ethics seems to be a weak point with some folks.... not to mention a grasp of the copyright law. http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html


_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/8/2006 5:50:19 AM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Pure fiction, IMHEO
 
Reminds Me of a whipping I saw at 1763 a year or so back---ego overcame reasonable judgement.

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/8/2006 11:55:32 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		a random thought that occurs to me..

it's not that uncommon for expectations for scenes to be different between people,  but wouldn't a Master / slave pair discuss if this scene was to be "treat time" for slave, where it's about her pleasures, as Masters tending to His property...  or if it's to be Masters choice, where she is only serving as the outlet for His pleasures, which is part of the M/s dynamic usually.  (gawd, no matter how i word that, it makes M/s relationship sound uncaring and insensitive, which isn't my intent)

Maybe if they discussed it ahead of time... i dunno.  i know "negotiation" might not be the proper word in a M/s pair, but surely slave might think to ask "Master, what are You wanting to get out of the scene tonight?"   Then she could have know if her input was welcome or not.  Or the Him could have informed her she was dictating...

But it seems clear to me there are two different objectives in scening with a M/s couple,  either addressing her physical prefs or serving His.  or is that not typical and i have assumed too much?

(in reply to MHOO314)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/8/2006 4:47:24 PM   
DaimonDog


Posts: 14
Status: offline 		Has anyone asked if the slave was overworked, had real life problems, or- ?

It sounds like she was being a real pain in the ass -
but we did not hear the other side of the story. 

Maybe the guy should flog a punching bag. He is not yet ready for human time. 

(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/8/2006 6:03:23 PM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline 		Oh for heavens sake. Why is everyone picking this situation apart? So a scene went bad. Big friggin deal. I think most of us have probably had a scene or two gone bad. Not every flogging session is going to be perfect. 
It sounds to me like a young couple that are both consensually discovering their D/s dynamic together, sharing their feelings openly, and communicating with one another.
I say if more couples did just that, it'd be a helluva better world.

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to DaimonDog)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/8/2006 6:31:23 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

Total idiot. The smartest thing he did was stop. 


Yes and the dumbest thing was "Start"

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/8/2006 7:04:11 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline 		Overall, it sounds to me like he has a suitable enough dark heart, but needs to brush up on his method of selection, impatience and overall noodle-wristed approach.

male_dom is a livejournal community I never read anymore. It has become so vague in focus that it has suffered near complete doctrinal castration, and seems to be run more by the "submissive" females than anyone else. That was one of the many reasons I created the humbled_females community on livejournal.

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/8/2006 10:40:36 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

Oh for heavens sake. Why is everyone picking this situation apart?


Cuz we were asked what we thought of it?

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/9/2006 10:50:15 AM   
ArchangelMichael


Posts: 243
Joined: 8/21/2004
From: New Orleans, LA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

Oh for heavens sake. Why is everyone picking this situation apart? So a scene went bad. Big friggin deal. I think most of us have probably had a scene or two gone bad. Not every flogging session is going to be perfect. 
It sounds to me like a young couple that are both consensually discovering their D/s dynamic together, sharing their feelings openly, and communicating with one another.
I say if more couples did just that, it'd be a helluva better world.


Thanks. My point exactly. I think they are still exploring their own needs as far as the D/s aspect of their relationship goes.

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/9/2006 10:52:19 AM   
ArchangelMichael


Posts: 243
Joined: 8/21/2004
From: New Orleans, LA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

Oh for heavens sake. Why is everyone picking this situation apart?


Cuz we were asked what we thought of it?


Though slightly out of context.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/9/2006 11:43:29 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		The Dom simply wasn't enjoying himself. I don't know what that means. The sub wasn't enjoying herself. I don't know what that means either. The energy just wasn't there. He got slightly angry. She was a bit mouthy. End of story.

It's not a match as far as I can see.

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to ArchangelMichael)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/9/2006 10:10:18 PM   
ArchangelMichael


Posts: 243
Joined: 8/21/2004
From: New Orleans, LA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

The Dom simply wasn't enjoying himself. I don't know what that means. The sub wasn't enjoying herself. I don't know what that means either. The energy just wasn't there. He got slightly angry. She was a bit mouthy. End of story.

It's not a match as far as I can see.


Well they've been together for over 2 years and they were just married. I certainly hope they're a match. It just seemed like bad energy and a bad scene, which can happen to anyone.


_____________________________

"Open up your mind; Let your fantasies unwind." -The Phantom, Phantom of the Opera

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -Toulouse-Lautrec, Moulin Rouge

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/10/2006 4:45:57 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ArchangelMichael
Well they've been together for over 2 years and they were just married. I certainly hope they're a match. It just seemed like bad energy and a bad scene, which can happen to anyone.


That's interesting, if true. But since I don't know them I can't confirm. I'd wish them luck but then I barely care.

The scene described was very much like a mountain from a molehill kind of thing. I think a lot of us wondered what great message we were supposed to take away from its being posted here. My overall point was to make little of an isolated incident and to try not to read too much into it - hence the repetition of the phrase "I don't know what that means."

So the end result of the OP post mortem was that these two got married, huh? They sound like two idiots, but then I don't know them. Maybe they're just obnoxious attention whores with online diaries.

Will wonders never cease?


_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to ArchangelMichael)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/10/2006 4:55:01 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Sounds to me that they were out of sync and I do think he did the right thing by using the safeword. He was just getting angrier as the scene went along and he COULD have lost it and really hurt her. Something that would have really damaged their relationship and maybe her as well.

This happens sometimes it just does. A Dom/me wants to dish out more then the sub can handle. You have to step back from it and cool down or end it rather than risk going over the edge. Also it sounds like yes he wanted what those around him were getting, but perhaps he also felt a bit of competition there as well too?

~Lashra

(in reply to ArchangelMichael)
Profile   Post #: 40
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