Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (Full Version)

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Charles6682 -> Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (3/30/2011 10:25:17 PM)

Perhaps people in the Middle East really do want change for their part of the world after all.With all the Revolutions happening around the Middle East right now,its hard to argue that those in the Middle East don't want true freedom anymore.Their actions have proved that they do want freedom and democracy.The International Community should do its part and help to establish freedom in the Middle East.Not like Iraq,a cowboy and Indian game.REAL help as the International Community is doing in Libya and trying to do in Afganistan.Even Iraq,after all this time,is finally waking up.The Moderate Muslims finally appear to having their voice heard loud and clear.The World must pay attention.Don't forget Iran,their are many there who wish for true freedom and democracy as well.

The World can say what they wish about the United States.Is America perfect,no.However,America in the long run is the one last major force for good in the world.That is not to say America has and is still doing horrible things throughout certain places in the world.These actions must clearly stop.However,all and all,America is no doubt more for freedom and democracy than anything else.England,Canada,Australia has been our greatest allies.There have been great countries along the way as well.



tazzygirl -> RE: Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (3/30/2011 10:28:52 PM)

Ya know, we didnt revolt alone. There was plenty of help to the US during the american revolution. Many blockade runners were british soldiers during the civil war.



Brain -> RE: Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (3/30/2011 10:54:09 PM)

Just something to consider,


Is Big Saudi Arms Sale a Good Idea?

The Saudi deal will no doubt go through, but it shouldn't. It consists primarily of offensive weapons--fighter planes, attack helicopters, and guided bombs--that serve no constructive purpose. Fighter planes and guided bombs aren't relevant to addressing the potential threat posed by Iranian missiles, nor are they likely to dissuade Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Combat aircraft and attack helicopters might be used in Saudi strikes against terrorists and separatist groups in northern Yemen, but doing so would be counterproductive, more likely to inflame passions against Riyadh than to solve its border security problems.

Congress and the public should think twice before signing off on what may be the first stage of a new Mideast arms race.

http://www.cfr.org/defensehomeland-security/big-saudi-arms-sale-good-idea/p23019




rulemylife -> RE: Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (3/31/2011 1:34:15 AM)

If you can stop your flag waving for a minute you might want to take a look at Brain's post.

Then you can explain to me why we are supposedly spreading freedom and democracy while we are selling arms to another dictatorship.



Kirata -> RE: Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (3/31/2011 2:00:29 AM)


Real democracy. How wonderful. Just use the right plates, and the food will be healthful and tasty! Yeah right. "Real democracy" is mob rule. And a Constitution can as easily establish a racist theocracy as anything else. I mean, give me a break. This kind of vacuous gushing about serving-ware belongs in the Home Furnishings forum.

K.



Moonhead -> RE: Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (3/31/2011 5:55:53 AM)

"Real" democracy (the Athenian system, where the minority with the vote are entitled and obliged to vote on everything) is a long way from mob rule: if I remember my classics, a quite small chunk of Athens' population had the vote, or any say in governance back then. The mob didn't get a look in.



Kirata -> RE: Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (3/31/2011 6:39:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

"Real" democracy (the Athenian system, where the minority with the vote are entitled and obliged to vote on everything) is a long way from mob rule: if I remember my classics, a quite small chunk of Athens' population had the vote, or any say in governance back then. The mob didn't get a look in.

Democracy means government by the people. That's what it means now, and that's what it meant then. The Greeks just had some less than progressive notions about who constitutes a "person" for that purpose, to the detriment of women, slaves (including freed slaves) and males without military training.

If you want to call that "real" democracy, please give me a moment to step out of the line of fire. [:D]

K.



mnottertail -> RE: Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (3/31/2011 7:20:04 AM)

I have said this before, I'll say it again, democracy and freedoms do not go hand in hand.

They want freedoms, not western democracy or anything like it. 



Moonhead -> RE: Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (3/31/2011 7:25:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

"Real" democracy (the Athenian system, where the minority with the vote are entitled and obliged to vote on everything) is a long way from mob rule: if I remember my classics, a quite small chunk of Athens' population had the vote, or any say in governance back then. The mob didn't get a look in.

Democracy means government by the people. That's what it means now, and that's what it meant then. The Greeks just had some less than progressive notions about who constitutes a "person" for that purpose, to the detriment of women, slaves (including freed slaves) and males without military training.

If you want to call that "real" democracy, please give me a moment to step out of the line of fire. [:D]

K.

Fair enough. I was just pointing out that what normally gets described as 'democracy" in these forums is actually a republic: you know, rule by elected representatives, rather than rule by the mob.



Charles6682 -> RE: Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (3/31/2011 10:20:35 AM)

I did say there were some spots in the world were America needs to improve.Selling massive weapons to the Saudi Arabia(which is one of the most repressive countries in the world) is not a wise move.The only thing USA and Saudi Arabia have in common is oil.I don't like it any any President treats Saudi Arabia like the USA is such a great ally,when we should't be.After all,wasn't it mostly Saudi's who attacked America on 9/11?Wasn't most of the money that help fiance 9/11 come through Saudi Arabia?Yet,we have George Bush Jr kissing the Saudi King and President Barack Obama bowing to the King of Saudi!!its amazing how much influence Saudi Arabia has over the USA.I remember the Micheal Moore video saying Saudi Arabia has over 1.4 trillion dollars invested in the U.S. Ecnonmy.Thats alot of money there.Who's your daddy?!



Moonhead -> RE: Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (3/31/2011 1:49:01 PM)

What? Surely the ninth of November attackers were all Iraqis: whatever are you doing in Iraq if they were from Saudi Arabia?



mnottertail -> RE: Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (3/31/2011 2:18:11 PM)

Someone was saying libyan al queda was in iran, iran was in iraq, and now iran is in libya, but you know who said it, so .........



Moonhead -> RE: Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (4/1/2011 4:44:01 AM)

Who's in Syria, then? Israel?



DarkSteven -> RE: Finally,real democracy and freedom in the Middle East?! (4/1/2011 5:24:56 AM)

Charles, we don't have democracy in the countries you mentioned.  Nor do we have dictatorships.  We have a very fluid situation that will not be resolved any time soon. 

I'm hoping for Western-friendly countries that truly represent the people, but there ain't no guarantees.  Not only for what kind of government will out, but when it could happen.



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