RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies?

RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (Full Version)

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TedEbear -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/8/2006 5:26:12 PM)
Sometimes I do it just to yank someones chain. Like your post gooddogbenji :)

HarryVanWinkle -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/8/2006 7:54:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMacComb quote: ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle What I've seen, I wouldn't call emnity and vitriol. I have seen a lot of Dominant Women tell male "submissives" that their fantasy life is unrealizable, and these self same male "submissives" lash out at them for it. As well they should. To imply that a subs fantasy is "not true femdom, not authentic, selfish blah blah blah" is to imply that they ard they alone are the all knowing expert of all things globally. I have butted heads with them on this topin more than any other for the simple reason that what applies to them or is right for them doenst for someone else. But then I get accused of being "nice" to subs which apprently is a big no-no (in their opinion which means nothing to me, lol).[:)] Ms MacComb, I do see your point and have, under my previous name, also pontificated prodigiously against such pontification. I was referring more to the sort of thing I've often seen, although admittedly it's more of a chat room thing, of a male opening a conversation with something like, "Would you tie me down and shit in my mouth?" When answered in the negative, he responds, "Then F... You! You're not a real Domme." I would not intentionally imply that a sub's fantasy is "not true femdom, not authentic, selfish, blah blah blah." On the other hand, there are the fantasies that are just plain unrealizable, i.e. they cannot be made into reality. Believe me, I know, I have lots of them myself. A good example is the OP of the "wanting to be a 24/7" thread in this forum. "hi im a slave who wants to become a 24/7 ladies toilet to be placed permanantly and to be treated and used and seen only as a toilet,,, everyone keeps telling me i dont want this but i do want this,,,how viable is my fantasy in reality?" In my humble opinion, the answer to his question is, "Not at all." This is not to condemn him for the fantasy, or to say he's "sick" for having it. I've had "sicker" myself. On the other hand, I quite agree with you about pasting labels on people, then judging their worthiness by those labels. "Slaves are sublime, submissives are good, bottoms are bad, and switches are an abomination in the eyes of the Lord." Funny how this attitude seems to be almost an entirely online thing. I see almost none of it from Dominants at Desert Dominion or APEX. You know, the more I think on this, the more I'm coming to agree with the OP here. Many of submissive men here seem to want to be 24/7 sex slaves. Many of the Dominant women seem to want the "It's all about me, your desires are irrelevant" total service slaves, willing to give up everything and get nothing in return. While I condemn neither of these desires, I don't see either of them as being very likely to be fulfilled. The fact is, for any long term relationship to work, whether it be totally vanilla, Total Power Exchange M/s, monogamous, polyamorous or anything in between, it must fulfill the needs of ALL the people involved in it.

MsMacComb -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/8/2006 11:00:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle Ms MacComb, Funny how this attitude seems to be almost an entirely online thing. I see almost none of it from Dominants at Desert Dominion or APEX. You know, the more I think on this, the more I'm coming to agree with the OP here. Many of submissive men here seem to want to be 24/7 sex slaves. Many of the Dominant women seem to want the "It's all about me, your desires are irrelevant" total service slaves, willing to give up everything and get nothing in return. While I condemn neither of these desires, I don't see either of them as being very likely to be fulfilled. The fact is, for any long term relationship to work, whether it be totally vanilla, Total Power Exchange M/s, monogamous, polyamorous or anything in between, it must fulfill the needs of ALL the people involved in it. Very well put. As you stated I also have never seen the selfish attitudes in real life as much as online and especially here. I do find it amusing when you see some middle aged dom/domme who's been here for like 20 years looking, still with no real prospects even after all that time, lol. Its like they don't quite get that it just might be them thats the problem and not a lack of good candidates (and this applies to some subs as well). So unless its highly confidential, what was your other name?

HarryVanWinkle -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/9/2006 12:21:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMacComb quote: ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle Ms MacComb, Funny how this attitude seems to be almost an entirely online thing. I see almost none of it from Dominants at Desert Dominion or APEX. You know, the more I think on this, the more I'm coming to agree with the OP here. Many of submissive men here seem to want to be 24/7 sex slaves. Many of the Dominant women seem to want the "It's all about me, your desires are irrelevant" total service slaves, willing to give up everything and get nothing in return. While I condemn neither of these desires, I don't see either of them as being very likely to be fulfilled. The fact is, for any long term relationship to work, whether it be totally vanilla, Total Power Exchange M/s, monogamous, polyamorous or anything in between, it must fulfill the needs of ALL the people involved in it. Very well put. As you stated I also have never seen the selfish attitudes in real life as much as online and especially here. I do find it amusing when you see some middle aged dom/domme who's been here for like 20 years looking, still with no real prospects even after all that time, lol. Its like they don't quite get that it just might be them thats the problem and not a lack of good candidates (and this applies to some subs as well). So unless its highly confidential, what was your other name? Ms MacComb, My last incarnation here was under the name ServiceNTucson. Before that, for a long time I was HarryPainPuppy, but I never looked at the boards under that name. I deleted both profiles because nobody was getting my emails. I was having the same problem with this name, but just a few minutes ago, I got a letter from somebody who had actually received one of mine. So, hopefully, that problem is now fixed. I think that the reason for so many unrealizable expectations online is people who are either afraid to, or unable to get out from hiding behind their computers and go meet BDSM people in the flesh. So, they read all the crap on so many websites and get these ideas about how "REAL Doms" and "TRUE subs" MUST look, dress, talk, behave and interact with one another. And those who don't meet these fantasy standards are "Fakes" or even worse, "Switches." If they were to get out and go to places like Desert Dominion and APEX, what they would find are REAL people, you know, human beings, flesh and blood, with all their infinite variety, complications, contradictions, many faceted lives, normal fat, skinny bodies and beautiful souls. You may or may not find your REAL Dom or TRUE sub there, but if you give it time and a little effort, you're likely to find some REAL, TRUE friends, who will give you the shoulder to cry on when you need it. Or who will give you the physical pain you may need for catharsis, such as I needed last Saturday night, three weeks after the death of my mother, when the tears still hadn't come. A couple, REAL, TRUE friends gave me the pain, not too hard, but not too light, I needed to release the tears and begin the healing.

CERCKL -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/9/2006 1:23:35 AM)
quote: and CollarChat for sniping at them? Hell yes...snipe, tear down, humiliate, degrade, ridicule, bend over and fist...next! <malicious grin> C

MsMacComb -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/9/2006 2:41:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle Ms MacComb, I think that the reason for so many unrealizable expectations online is people who are either afraid to, or unable to get out from hiding behind their computers and go meet BDSM people in the flesh. So, they read all the crap on so many websites and get these ideas about how "REAL Doms" and "TRUE subs" MUST look, dress, talk, behave and interact with one another. And those who don't meet these fantasy standards are "Fakes" or even worse, "Switches." If they were to get out and go to places like Desert Dominion and APEX, what they would find are REAL people, you know, human beings, flesh and blood, with all their infinite variety, complications, contradictions, many faceted lives, normal fat, skinny bodies and beautiful souls. You may or may not find your REAL Dom or TRUE sub there, but if you give it time and a little effort, you're likely to find some REAL, TRUE friends, who will give you the shoulder to cry on when you need it. Or who will give you the physical pain you may need for catharsis, such as I needed last Saturday night, three weeks after the death of my mother, when the tears still hadn't come. A couple, REAL, TRUE friends gave me the pain, not too hard, but not too light, I needed to release the tears and begin the healing. First off I am very sorry to hear about your loss. I've had a lot of that in my life and it just plain sucks, period. I am glad to hear that you had some "real" friends to be with you and assist in a variety of methods and fashions. As to the rest, well, "You're preaching to the choir, my multiple monikered friend". I feel I've used up a "barrel of ink" trying to persuade others to go out and actually live their lives instead of sitting and listening to all the "know it all experts". Real-versus-fake, artifical-versus-self authenticated, faux-versus-self manufactured, top-v-dom-sub-v-bottom-v-slave+salad-shoe+cane-x-genuine=blather/garbage/sewage. As I've had very good success rates elsewhere I decided it was time to come tutor the newbies here, lol. Anyhow, hope things will improve for you soon. Feel free to IM if you need a shoulder.

MsMacComb -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/9/2006 2:54:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TeeGO I get agitated with the lack of respect in the Mistress forum by bitter subs. The general forum is another story, it's open season in here. But in the Mistress forum there should be more respect. But the truth is a lot of the "fights" happen due to a misunderstanding. The "do-me" subs have gotten into the heads of the lifestyle Dommes while the ProDommes have gotten into the heads of the lifestyle subs. With all due respect (no pun), respect should be earned, in my opinion. Just because a woman has a vagina and slaps on some leather and calls her self Queen Bitch doesnt mean she is worthy of any more respect than the lowest of brand new subs. I think if one thing that has been made very clear (to some) since my new round of debates here is that there is a segment of women that are under the impression that any male that has sub on his profile can be treated like dirt. Sadly in some cases due to a lack of knowledge and the prevalent and very insipid "advice and atmosphere" they put up with this nonsense. They don't have to and shouldnt. I have been touched by some of your replies on other threads and having said that your avatar scares the hell out of me.[sm=hewah.gif]

OnyxGoddess -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/9/2006 3:10:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig quote: ORIGINAL: moon69 That is definately a great explanation...and indeed a greater DESCRIPTION of the differences of submissives and bottoms. And another worthy commentary on how the lack of knowing the difference, by male subs, can ellicit some harsh and negative reactions. But thats what these usually tend to be.... REACTIONS... You have a point but it is important to notice that most fem doms are not reacting because a man is presenting himself as a bottom... In my opinion, most fem doms react to a one hand typing one hand on cock approach who does not treat her as anything but another typist fulfilling his kinks. I personally don't mind having a hot man/man with a high libido approach me... Even if at a play party, I don't want a man approaching me with "I'd love to orally worship you." I'd prefer he say "my name is jerkoff, and I think thin you're sexy", lol. I think lust is a wonderful thing; it is that desire to mate that makes us work at getting along with one another oftentimes. I would simply like to be approached as you (generic you) would any woman you've just met on the street first. M For once I agree with BlkTallFullfig. You wouldn't just walk up to a woman on the street and say "let's f*" but a lot of subs do that here. In addition they just want to chat because they are horny and want to rub one off. Where is the dom/mes pleasure in stroking out a scenerio on a keyboard while you stroke on your c*. And MsMac you are right. Subs do deserve respect...AS LONG AS THEY GIVE IT. Many of them don't. They act like the domme is just some woman out here to fulfill thier fantasies. I'll just say it's the two way street. I have no problem walking it as long as I'm not walking it alone.

naughtynick -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/9/2006 3:16:55 AM)
If their were less double standards, there would be less problems. I don't only mean BDSM, I mean the dating scene in general.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/10/2006 1:05:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick If their were less double standards, there would be less problems. I don't only mean BDSM, I mean the dating scene in general That is a nice post Natughtynick, any chance you liked/learned anything in this thread? [;)] quote: For once I agree with BlkTallFullfig. You wouldn't just walk up to a woman on the street and say "let's f*" but a lot of subs do that here. Where is the dom/mes pleasure in stroking out a scenerio on a keyboard while you stroke on your c*. And MsMac you are right. Subs do deserve respect...AS LONG AS THEY GIVE IT. Many of them don't. I have no problem walking it as long as I'm not walking it alone Awh [;)] M

MsMacComb -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/10/2006 1:27:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick If their were less double standards, there would be less problems. I don't only mean BDSM, I mean the dating scene in general. Yes well if it wasnt for double standards some people would have no standards at all. [:D]

cacodylic -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/14/2006 3:10:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Proprietrix I'm going to go against the general opinion here and agree with you. I do indeed see a lot of what you're talking about. On nearly a daily (and sometimes several times a day) I see a male come to collarchat and state his fantasies. And then I see (and often join) a bunch of Dommes who try to "set the record straight" that we are not personal fantasy fulfillers. I don't attribute it to a general hostility between malesubs and Dommes though. I attribute a lot of it to the lack of accurate titles for people. I've seen a trend of the internet being used a great deal by male bottoms who are after kink, play, sex, and fantasy fulfillment, and being used a great deal by Female Dominants who are after power exchange, and D/s or M/s relationships. Contrary to popular belief, most male bottoms aren't seeking out female Dominants. They are seeking out female tops. And most female Dominants aren't seeking out male bottoms. They are seeking out male submissives. Everyone is so repulsed by the idea of using titles, labels, and definitions, that a lot of people entering the lifestyle have no clue what the difference is between a bottom and a submissive, or between a Top and a Dominant. If they don't already know the difference, and they aren't given a chance to learn the difference, and they have no option of defining themselves as one instead of the other, then it makes perfect sense that they are going to choose "the answer closest to what I am". Beyond that, I think many of the female Dominants who log on here (myself included) realize that the greater percentage of male submissives and male bottoms who log on to sites like these, don't have a realistic perspective of us. And sometimes (like after the 12th fantasy laden, unrealistic, stereotyped post that week) we begin to lose a bit of patience (and a bit of hope) and start coming across a lot more bitchy than we were 11 posts earlier. As usual, a very informative post from Proprietrix. I would add that, whatever labels one would choose, and even if one could achieve uniform acceptance of their meanings, they represent points [or ranges] on a continuum of wants, needs, and behaviors. Perhaps unfortunately, CM does not offer the options of "top" or "bottom" when classifying one's profile. I guess I'd describe myself as 60% bottom 40% sub [plus or minus 15%]. All the more reason to compose an informative personal statement and augment it with journal entries [and forum posts]. I tend to believe what people say [and show] about themselves on their profiles. They may strike me as scary, extreme or ridiculous, but it's so easy to just move on to the next one. No point in trying to convince anyone to change what they are or what they're looking for [especially when a sub approaches a dominant LOL, but also the other way around] -- I just keep on truckin'... c

cacodylic -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/14/2006 4:33:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cacodylic I guess I'd describe myself as 60% bottom 40% sub [plus or minus 15%]. Oops, I forgot about that 10% "wanker" so often bandied about here, or as incessantly described at another site, "kinkie [sic] pigmale pervert"... LOL

NikkiAnn -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/14/2006 4:34:43 PM)
Mistress Lashra, I wish we lived closer, I would love to meet you for some nice conversation. Nikki Ann

theRose4U -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/14/2006 4:59:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 I think your problem is going into a chat room to begin with. If you're seriously searching for a partner, I hardly think you'll find one in chat. I've made some good friends in chat from all across the globe but a married gorean master is not what I'd ever call a life partner.

TeeGO -> RE: male sub vs femdommes - natural enemies? (5/14/2006 7:42:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMacComb quote: ORIGINAL: TeeGO I get agitated with the lack of respect in the Mistress forum by bitter subs. The general forum is another story, it's open season in here. But in the Mistress forum there should be more respect. But the truth is a lot of the "fights" happen due to a misunderstanding. The "do-me" subs have gotten into the heads of the lifestyle Dommes while the ProDommes have gotten into the heads of the lifestyle subs. With all due respect (no pun), respect should be earned, in my opinion. Just because a woman has a vagina and slaps on some leather and calls her self Queen Bitch doesnt mean she is worthy of any more respect than the lowest of brand new subs. I think if one thing that has been made very clear (to some) since my new round of debates here is that there is a segment of women that are under the impression that any male that has sub on his profile can be treated like dirt. Sadly in some cases due to a lack of knowledge and the prevalent and very insipid "advice and atmosphere" they put up with this nonsense. They don't have to and shouldnt. I have been touched by some of your replies on other threads and having said that your avatar scares the hell out of me.[sm=hewah.gif] I'm just a puppy dog. If you had seen me last night you would have been anything but scared. All 5'-0' 115 lbs beat the living hell out of me. I was definately shown my place. [:D]

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