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slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/8/2006 9:57:00 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		After reading a post on whether a slave could have 2 Masters or not, this question came to my mind. If you have a slave who does not work outside the home because that is your wish, what arrangements are made if the relationship doesn't last.

my personal reason for asking this question comes from having been married for 23 years, while it was not a lifestyle M/s relationship, it was a 50's style marriage where i did not work outside the home for most of the marriage, and when it ended through basically no fault of my own, ie he cheated and then he wanted the divorce, i was left in a bad situation financially and i can only imagine that it would be a similar situation in a M/s relationship. So that in my search, i look for a Master who would want me to work outside the home, as i need to set money aside for retirement, etc.

i was just curious how you deal with those issues, if your slave does not work outside the home. Thank you.

heartfelt
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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/8/2006 10:36:20 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline 		Good question.  I tried to address this situation in this thread a little over a year ago.  With the number of people here who claim to be in long term "lifestyle" relationships, I was hoping that it would produce some interesting conversation and sharing of information.  Sadly, only a couple of people took interest and it quietly died an obscure death.

Perhaps your thread will succeed where mine failed, but most seem to shy away from the difficult issues like this, especially when it may cast the harsh light of day onto inadequacies in their own "arrangements." 

~stef

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/8/2006 10:57:07 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you, that thread was very informative, sort of what i was asking, but also left open the question about loss of usable job skills, if someone does not work outside the home for an extended period and then needs to reenter the job market because of a ending to the M/s relationship.

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/8/2006 11:05:35 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline 		I touched on it briefly when I mentioned their loss of livelihood and was hoping to discuss the possible stagnation of job skills and professional growth, but the thread never got to that point.

~stef

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/8/2006 11:11:53 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Yes that was what i noticed, but i would think that should (though i hate to use the should word) be a consideration for Masters who do not want their slaves to work outside the home, not only the not having an income, but also the loss of marketable job skills.

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/8/2006 11:50:07 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear heartfeltsub, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
The mentality and attitudes have changed a lot however, most Masters of my time were several decades older than I, women didn't work outside the home and why the lifestyle protocol was that all men supported the women in the scene be it dominant or submissive.
 
Now, in my day (antique as it was), Masters put away sums of money, such as an allowance and had it grow in savings and or in a trust, with conditions.  When I worked (and slave also), my entire paycheck went to the Master, to whom did not inform me put it into savings so, when he passed away, I had enough to afford home, luxury cars, the works per se.  Not all Masters are so kind.
 
My advice in todays M/s world where there are no set standards, is to keep control over your finances.  Direct deposit is a good way of doing so.  Sadly, I've seen for the last 14 years, men making women slaves financially so they can sit on their butts and fart.  Now, that said--I would agree helping with expenses but--not one person totally towing the financial line.  Now days, with cost of living, gas, taxes--it will take everybody's money to get by.
 
I would also recommend having life insurance; disability insurance (worker's compensation), have a "trust" with people that you can trust as trustees as to keep your best interests in front.  Living wills, power of attorneys are also important.
 
Most I did with my slave's money--was do as was done for me; create a savings account and or money market savings account, balance their checkbook and use a lot of coupons to save money!
 
Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs
 
 

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/8/2006 12:42:21 PM   
MsMacComb


Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline 		This might not help at all but I believe most states resepct common law and you should be/have been entitled to half of whatever was available.

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/8/2006 1:05:21 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		heartfelt,
quote:

i was just curious how you deal with those issues, if your slave does not work outside the home. Thank you.


I will not be presumptuous enough to think that people would consider that beth and I spent a considerable amount of time planning and considering what we both would be "getting into" when we began our relationship. I won't even assume that anyone would believe we've considered "everything". I know we didn't. But I know we addressed any and everything either of us considered important, including beth's career and job issues.

I'd also say that things didn't even work out as expected. We never considered there would be "rebound" adult children entering the picture. We believed that others would be responsible for their ongoing duties and obligations, but when they didn't it didn't effect our foundation. When those unplanned or unforeseen circumstances came up and when they come up in the future, how we act or react to the event will first and foremost be based upon the primary responsibility and obligation we have to our relationship.

We see and react to EVERYTHING in those terms. If either of us has any doubts what our responsibility is, we have access to a document that spells them out for both of us. We don't get into a deep emotional conversation every day, but I'd wager we do so more than most. "Reading" someone isn't limited to watching how their body reacts in a dungeon setting in lieu of a safe-word, it's just as important to be sensitive to them when they are just walking with you to the car.

I say all the time that one of the essential traits that BOTH parties must bring to a 24/7 M/s live-in relationship is confidence. Being confident that you are going to succeed is essential. If you lied about or to yourself regarding your desires, or if your desires were in reality "whims" then you better be prepared for failure. You've set yourself up for it, you should be expecting it.

There is only one eventuality that beth may have to be concerned about - my untimely death. Although I have made some provisions they are not complete, and most likely won't be so "legally" until the appropriate governmental agencies recognize our relationship. That event is planned for sometime this summer, but it will only document in the broad stroke what has already been taken care of in as much detail as is possible without the "piece of paper". Indeed it's one of the only reasons we've decided to get the "piece of paper".

Materially, if that's the point that concerns you, beth can have everything if all of a sudden by some lightening stroke she wanted out of our relationship. It sounds shallow and empty in words, I know. But interestingly enough, beth has the same attitude. We've come together from very separate pasts. Yet, when we met, we were both of the same mind. Material things were nice and enjoyable, but bring you no real joy without the right person to share them. Pragmatically you have to consider the "worst case" but both of us came from the material worst case, and you can be assured that aspect doesn't shake either of us. Again, we are both confident that we'd survive. As devastated as I'd be without beth, that devastation wouldn't consider any possession I would have to give up to her.

You know, we can never prove to you or anyone that our concept "works" or will work long term. It's worked for three plus years, that's the only thing that can't be challenged. Long term it can only be proven in the negative. beth's financial options in the event of "failure" can not be measured unless failure occurs. My consideration for her time can not be evaluated. I'll make sure to not go away in that eventuality and you can all point "I told you so!" emails to our profile. Actually unless somehow, as beth hopes, we die in a plane crash together coming back from, hopefully not GOING TO, some exotic trip one of us will have to deal without the other. Selfishly I hope it's beth, because I'd know I'd fail without her.

Some think to live this way is a fantasy. Some may not believe we live this way at all. To those I offer the hospitality of our home and would welcome them to visit and meet us in person. Nothing we've ever posted about our relationship doesn't occur, or is a figment of either of our imaginations. As soon as this is posted I'm leaving the office to pick her up for our trip to Palm Springs, where tonight she will sleep naked next to me in collar & cuffs as she does every night. I only needed to tell her what time to be ready to go. she did not need to ask permission of any other work 'master'. Neither of us want it any other way.

Maybe you think that we didn't plan so well or as well as you would for failure of our relationship. I'll tell you that we both spent a considerable amount of time in planning for it's success and living up to the standards necessary to insure ongoing success. Maybe if people had enough confidence to plan for success more, or at least as much, as they plan for failure, there would be more success.

One more thing, you just can say these are your goals you have to WORK to make them happen. Once they do, the work is over, the relationship is FUN! Even the "work" you do to keep it going is fun! Having fun and surrendering to a life that is natural for both of us was and is our ongoing goal. Every day, we plan for tomorrows success.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/8/2006 1:15:49 PM >

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/8/2006 1:05:29 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

My advice in todays M/s world where there are no set standards, is to keep control over your finances.  Direct deposit is a good way of doing so.  Sadly, I've seen for the last 14 years, men making women slaves financially so they can sit on their butts and fart.  Now, that said--I would agree helping with expenses but--not one person totally towing the financial line.  Now days, with cost of living, gas, taxes--it will take everybody's money to get by.
If one person enters another's service and gives up their career in the process to serve full time with no job outside the home (as the subject of this thread states), there is nothing to deposit.  One of the main foundation elements that makes this type of relationship possible is that there is sufficient financial stability on the part of the owner(s) that the slave is not required to contribute financially in order to keep the household afloat.  This isn't a situation where someone takes a slave in order to slug about and live off the income the slave provides.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb
 
This might not help at all but I believe most states resepct common law and you should be/have been entitled to half of whatever was available.

For a male/female (or same sex couple in the few, forward thinking states we have), that's certainly an available remedy.  For those in a non-standard relationship (being owned by a couple or someone of the same sex in the majority of states) they're left hanging in the breeze. 
 
I know, I'm such a horrible person for trying to drag reality kicking and screaming into what is most peoples' fantasy world. 
 
~stef

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/8/2006 1:09:06 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

This might not help at all but I believe most states resepct common law and you should be/have been entitled to half of whatever was available.


This does not adhere to a poly relationship though. Plus the amount your entitled to depends on how long you are together. There are other considerations as well.

I think a good idea would to negotiate having an allowance put away for you. Not only do you have to worry about break up but also death. If you're name is not on anything you suddenly have no rights until the estate is finished in probate. This can take over a year sometimes.

Nothing like the kick in the face when the ex wife gets it all and your left to starve.

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/8/2006 1:21:32 PM   
MistressWolfen


Posts: 578
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		I am only close enough friends with a few M/s couples to have discussed this point (finances remaining the last taboo LOL), but as we are all 40+ it certainly has been the topic of discussion at dinners etc. In Canada whether married or not a M/s relationship (same sex or other) is viewed as a common law contract and the partner that is let go is entitled to 1/2 of the common assets, if the partner has been begrieved they are entitled to all the assets. This is after 6 months of shared residency. This extends to the federal pension plan as well.

I agree with LadyHugs in that most do not have the luxury of allowing a slave to be a financially noncontributing member of a household with the horrendous cost of living. As for protection of my slave upon my death I (as well as the people I know) have written and filed proper wills, carry the slave as a dependant on insurance policies etc., thus affording them some protection when the inevitable happens.

On a personal level I prefer my slave to work at least part time, I have no interest in a 50's style household and can truly imagine nothing more boring (for myself) than a slave that can only speak about housework, service etc., but I am a real tyrant in that I also expect them to volunteer within the community we live in, participate in continuing education and develop and improve themselves in an ongoing basis that is not strictly focused on personal, sexual or house service roles. To me their social and mental development is as valuable service as the others. But I am an old dinosaur so may be offering very dated insight.

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/8/2006 1:43:49 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		First of all let me say I'm not a slave owner and never will be, its not my thing so I have no experience at it. But what others do as long as they are happy is fine.

It is my belief that a responsible Owner would put some money aside for his/her slave. I also believe that a responsible owner also see's to it that their property has medical coverage, prescription coverage would also be nice, life insurance and is beneficary to the Owners life insurance, particulary if their relationship has been long term. Now I know if the Owner is married to someone else this could be a major complication. But if they desire a slave they should figure it out.

I also believe a smart slave would also demand this type of arrangement from a Master/Mistress considering they are giving up everything in order to serve and give total devotion. In this world it has been my experience that you have to look out for yourself no matter what type of relationship you are in.

However I have noticed that alot of people sometimes don't take all of this into consideration when taking on a slave, nor does the slave. The keyword being sometimes, as some do. If the relationship ends, particulary after many years of service the slave is pretty much left out in the cold with nothing to show for it. I know this happened to a friend of mine who only had a bag of clothes to show for 6 years of service.

~Lashra

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/8/2006 2:45:27 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Given that scenario i think in the initial arrangements for the relationship:

1. It's the Master/Mistresses responsibility to address financial issues regarding "if and when" the relationship ceases.

2. It's the slaves responsibility to assess whether that potential Master/Mistress will honor their word and use this as a determining factor as to whether to proceed into the relationship. (Heck we keep saying slaves aren't stupid hey).

My view on this is that there is nothing wrong at all if a Master/Mistress desires a stay-at-home slave but given that desire they should also be prepared to assume extra responsibility for the slave, after all a slave is a living piece of property. In any circumstance where you assume ownership of a living thing, whether it be an animal or a plant or in our cases a human being it would take an abusive personality to just discard the item when no longer of use, kinda like dropping an unwanted dog in the middle of nowhere just cause you dont want to own it anymore. I think it would take a certain type of personality to even be capable of doing something like that and who would want an owner like that in the first place....so it really is up to the slave initially to assess what type of owner they are offering their lives to.

Fact is too, these type of life issues seem to become more important as each year passes and you get older. When you're young you dont really think of *tomorrow* much, you feel physically immortal, a lot of the times you dont think about the *what if's" in regards to health or whether you have a roof over your head, or whether you have security for when you get old...I can really see how younger people wouldnt really see these issues as too very important and could get themselves entangled in relationships where they see themselves at the rough end of the stick financially ....as you get older...all these possibilities of what it means to have no money comes to light, you can see how it will effect you personally, your health and well-being  etc...and they are issues that really need to be addressed in a concrete way in the beginning of any relationship.

So I can see what your saying heartfeltsub...it doesnt necessarily mean you have to work outside the home though...but it does mean..you have to be sure as hell confident in your potential Masters responsibiity towards the property he owns...and he should be able to demonstrate that in a concrete way by having a finanancial plan regarding you and the future whether the relationship works out or not.

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/8/2006 5:39:57 PM   
Rayne58


Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		heartfeltsub I too was married for 23 years and didn't work outside the home. My ex husband and I had a farm together and were self employed (I ran the accounting side of things), and I did volunteer work as a school librarian and a teacher aide. When I left him (my choice, he was an emotional abuser and control freak) I had a part time job as a teacher aide supplimented with the dole. It took months to get my settlement from the marriage, and I'm still being paid out in dribs and drabs likely for the next 7 years

Because I have no formal qualifications, it was hard for me to find work when I lost that first job (no fault of mine, just restructuring). I worked for the dole for six months in a council office and got some valuable experience, but still could not find a full time job in my local area (my age I guess counted against me - mid 40s). Which was good in a way because I was able to relocate to live with Master in Australia with not too many hassles.

I have total control over my finances. Both Master and I are on welfare (He disability, me as His carer) and we have separate bank accounts. I'm 47 years old and have money in the bank but have never held a real full time job since I married at 19. I'm computer literate, can type 45wpm (self taught), and learn quickly. Over the time Master and I have been together I've learned nursing skills too. I'm unable to work because of Master's health needs. What employer wants someone who may have to dash off at a moment's notice, or may not be able to come in because He is not well enough to be left alone? So I have that part of life on hold for now.

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/9/2006 7:16:42 AM   
MdmSarah


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline 		When my slave was with me 24/7, I was (and am) in the position to hire him to officially work for my business, which he did as well as keep house for me.  He also holds a part time job outside of the house.  His salary was split between savings, child support from a previous relationship, paying off a college loan, and a small amount of cash for him to use as he chose.  While his salary was less than what he could earn in a full time job in his career, the difference was made up in the fact that he did not have to pay for housing, phone, electric, car and all those pesky other bills that most people face. 

We're in a transitional stage because I am moving and he will not be joining me for another year or so.  He will continue to work for my business part time, and will be working more at his part time job.  He is in the process of finding an apartment, and has access to his savings if he should need it - although it's in his name, he does need my permission to access it. 

I acknowledge that most dommes are not in a position to hire their 24/7 subs (and I wouldn't hire just anyone - he was a good choice for an employee as well as a slave). 

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/9/2006 12:16:07 PM   
mathiasdomm


Posts: 71
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline 		I think that financial planning skills ought to be one of the things that doms help their subs with.  The better they can take care of themselves, the better they can take care of you.

My dad was a business owner before me and I'm currently involved in my second LLC (gotta love MS business laws), so I'm a finance nut. I know where every penny goes, think about retirement on a daily basis and relentlessly stick to a budget that includes a savings component.  I discovered after I got back to women my own age that I am a complete anomaly in this regard.  None of the girls I play with have a budget, several of them have massive credit card debt compared to their incomes, and worry almost constantly about money.  A lot of my 'teaching time' is spent talking about financial discipline and management.

I don't have any body in a collar right now, so there's not a lot of ordering going on in this area, but I strongly recommend all my friends to have at least part time jobs.  Regular incomes that they can practice managing. 
I have them break their after tuition budgets down like this (obviously this is built for college living.  Adapt as needed for grown ups.)

First Priority,15% of income- Self Improvement.
This is books, classes, savings for graduate school, career training, clothes to get promoted, whatever.

Second priority, 60% of income- Survival.
Rent, gas, insurance, poverty food ( you can live a long healthy life on onions, bell peppers, pasta, milk and sausage), utilities+internet.  Paying off credit card debt falls into this.  Everything you haven't spent in the survival budget goes on the credit cards.  It's usually enough to pay off a low limit card ($200-$300) in a few months.  It's those multiple card holders that get into trouble.

Third Priority, 15% of income- Savings
Savings are a progressive thing that I'm real inclined to reward.  At every hundred dollars saved for the first five hundred, I'll either treat them to something special or match $25.  At a thousand, we open a mutual fund or money market account (Janus and a few others do a thing for low-limit people.  You can find them on the web.). 

Fourth Priority, 5% of income- Upgrades
This is stuff that you're already buying, but you want to buy a better version.  This is organic chicken vs. Wal-Mart chicken. It can also work for dinner out vs. cooking. It really makes you wonder if the extra money is worth it. 

Fifth Priority, 5% of income- Entertainment.
Self explanatory.

The rule is that you can't do something from a lower tier until all the tiers above that are provided for.  Actually had a girl sign up for this and realized that she couldn't afford her trendy apartment if she stopped taking rent before she paid for improving herself.  This whole thing is oriented to make you think about getting ahead before you get by.  I suppose the value of this line of thought goes down as you get closer to retirement.   It also helps structure priorities and time better.  If you're spending 75% focused on getting by to get ahead, then you can't help but spend less time at the bar, less money at the mall.  

That's my two cents.
-m

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/10/2006 6:57:05 PM   
wolffeathers


Posts: 315
Joined: 8/6/2005
From: Clearwater
Status: offline 		There is a reason that bina works.  So, that should something happen (either in our relationship, or to me), she has the knowledge, and experenece needed.

And, well, having that extra cash is always a good thing.

Doesn't mean she gets to spend her money.  It still all goes into the same account.  Which, by the way, she controls (I am BAAAAD with money).

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RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/10/2006 9:39:38 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline 		I think that it's important that even when a sub or slave is "employed" in the household that they are given a skill set for just the instances that are being discussed.
Making sure that one is educated is important. There are many many skills that one can get their sub certified in that not only are an asset to the home but are a fall back in the event they find themselves on their own. Massage, home business items like accounting or dictation, cooking, and decorating. An educated sub in my mind is more interesting and useful.

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: slaves who don't work outside the home - 5/12/2006 5:25:21 AM   
LL1aintbehavin


Posts: 104
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		heartfeltsub.
Very interesting thread, and one my Dom and i are working on at the moment.  As we are from two different countries (Canada and the U.S), we knew that for a time one of us would be in the position of not being able to work until legalities could be obtained.  W/we are getting married in a week, then going through the immigration process.  That still leaves a chunk of unkown time before i will get work authorization.
I have always worked and raised kids on my own, so it is very strange not to be doing the 9 to 5.
At present He takes care of all of the bills with His check, and has me named on His life insurance policy.
Once i am able to work again, we will together pay off any outstanding debts, and put money into savings.
We have a joint bank account already and as a legal spouse if anything happened i would be able to get half of anything, but that is something that we do not like to envision.
Should the worst ever happen, i would go back up to where my family is and start over again from there.  I have job skills and survival skills so i guess i do not worry about that aspect.
It is much different for those that have never worked, have no money or access to any to be released and have to learn to be self sufficient.
aintbehavin

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