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Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/7/2011 10:21:03 PM

TheHeretic

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San Francisco Chronicle article

A California demographer has released a best guess of how many gay men and lesbians there are in the U.S. Gary Gates puts the figure at 4 million adults, representing 1.7 percent of the 18-and-over population.

That's much lower than the 3 to 5 percent that has been the conventional wisdom in the last two decades, based on other isolated studies. It's also a fraction of the figure put out by Alfred Kinsey, who said in the 1940s that 10 percent of the men he surveyed were "predominantly homosexual."

Gates has advised the Census Bureau. He's a demographer-in-residence at the Williams Institute on Sexual Orientation Law and Public Policy at the University of California, Los Angeles.

He derived his results from five studies that asked subjects about their sexual orientations.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 4/7/2011 10:24:11 PM >

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/7/2011 10:26:01 PM

pahunkboy

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That sounds like a low number. A tad higher- then that- tho not 10%..... 3-5 sounds right.

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/7/2011 10:33:53 PM

Termyn8or

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Maybe some are not open about it. Like when they ask highschool kids how many smoke dope and 10% say yes. How many do you think do but said no ?

If half don't admit it openly, that would put the real number pretty close to what you said.

T^T

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/7/2011 10:40:33 PM

pahunkboy

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...measure it by cousins... anyone who has 20 cousins will have a gay one in there--- it wont take 100 of them to have a gay one. everyone has a relative, neighbor - coworker- so 1-2 % is too low.

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/7/2011 10:51:22 PM

Muttling

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Maybe some are not open about it. Like when they ask highschool kids how many smoke dope and 10% say yes. How many do you think do but said no ?

10% ????? I teach high school. Our annual survey is always higher than 70% for juniors and seniors having smoked in the last 2 months.

Based on my observation of our high school student population, I would definitely say 1% is very low and 10% is very high. Off the top of my head, I can put names to 1% of our student population who is out of the closet with their homosexuality.

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/7/2011 11:04:44 PM

Edwynn

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This is important ... why?

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/7/2011 11:07:07 PM

Muttling

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Its off topic banter, but here's an interesting addition of equal unimportance....

Evidence of homosexuality in archeology...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/07/135212785/researchers-dig-up-homosexual-or-transsexual-caveman-near-prague

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/8/2011 12:39:08 AM

Termyn8or

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Really, 70% ? That would mean 140%. I'll have to think about that, because the stigma might be reversed, and though it is probably illegal, some may admit it who don't. Which means half of the 30% leaving only 40% who do. That's the problem with surveys, you never know who is telling the truth. Having smoked within the last two months might be considered cool.

But on the homosexuality issue, how many Men might be bi, and actually have a Wife and kids. They are faithful I guess because the don't have a Woman on the side. But do they have a Man on the side ?

And this is just as (un)important as any such issue. If this republic has indeed become a democracy, if 51% of everyone decides that homosexuals should be exiled or whatever, by the tenets of the law, it must be made so. If a republic, the government is charged with protecting the rights of a minority as long as they are not intrinsically hurting anyone as a group. Which is it ?

Relevance ? How many people do you think percentage wise like to tie each other up, whip each other and apply electrodes to the sensitive bits ? How many do you think like to be strung up, or down and teased ? How many would want to lick someone's boots, or have their's licked ? How many want to be bound in leather or rubber, or wear a chastity belt, or even want their balls crushed ? Per capita, whaddya think ? And how many enjoy doing any or all of these things to those for whom they care the most ? (except Mom maybe)

How many do not go with the status quo, who are entirely uncounted ? And does it matter ?

T^T

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/8/2011 4:01:00 AM

flcouple2009

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Gates' best estimate, derived from five studies that have asked subjects about their sexual orientation, is that the nation has about 4 million adults who identify as being gay or lesbian, representing 1.7 percent of the 18-and-over population.

Gates is the first to admit his figures are imprecise.

But because so few national population surveys have asked about sexual orientation and the ones that have were not conducted consistently over time, the data on which to base a firm conclusion does not exist, he said.

That article left out a lot.

http://www.pottsmerc.com/articles/2011/04/08/news/srv0000011363786.txt?viewmode=default

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/8/2011 4:43:05 AM

Termyn8or

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If you want precise there is a device. It's like a lie detector for the dick. They used to use it on suspected pedophiles and show them a bunch of images. If they ummmm, swelled at certain images they were dog meat.

So everyone who thinks they might be gay just get in line and ................

I never really trusted surveys except for a couple of things. This is not one of the exceptions. What's left, a lie detector test ? Of course now on a telephone survey they could use voice stress analysis. Might not be admissable in court but would probably be more accurate.

T^T

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/8/2011 5:09:59 AM

domiguy

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If you are a teacher why does anyone have a pic on a fetish/bdsm site?

Did GoddessMine teach us nothing. Almost everyone that is a teacher has some sort of a morality clause in their contract.

Please use you head when creating a profile out here.

This has been a Public Service Announcement from Domiguy Industries.

Domiguy Industries....Building a better tomorrow by fucking the women of today.

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/8/2011 5:12:56 AM

Termyn8or

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Huh ? This is more cryptic than usual.

BTW, do you need a partner ?

T^T

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Post #: 12

RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/8/2011 5:16:35 AM

NocturnalStalker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

San Francisco Chronicle article

A California demographer has released a best guess of how many gay men and lesbians there are in the U.S. Gary Gates puts the figure at 4 million adults, representing 1.7 percent of the 18-and-over population.

That's much lower than the 3 to 5 percent that has been the conventional wisdom in the last two decades, based on other isolated studies. It's also a fraction of the figure put out by Alfred Kinsey, who said in the 1940s that 10 percent of the men he surveyed were "predominantly homosexual."

Gates has advised the Census Bureau. He's a demographer-in-residence at the Williams Institute on Sexual Orientation Law and Public Policy at the University of California, Los Angeles.

He derived his results from five studies that asked subjects about their sexual orientations.

Figures San Francisco would be all over something like this.

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/8/2011 5:39:00 AM

DesFIP

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I think that's vastly under representing the true figures. I believe he has not accounted for the fact that homosexuality is looked down upon in many cultures so men of those cultures will not be open about it, not even in an anonymous survey.

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/8/2011 8:09:47 AM

Marc2b

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Random thoughts on the topic:

Transsexual Cavemen? Just what does a caveman drag queen look like? I think I smell a new Will Ferrel movie here.

I find the notion of people running around trying to count the number of gays silly. First of all, why does it matter? The answer, of course, is that some people (and I am NOT specifically accusing the researcher in question here of anything) want to use such studies to bolster their "homosexuality is abnormal/anti-god" bullshit desire to deny equal rights to other people. The idea is the low numbers "prove" the "unnaturalness" of homosexuality. Well the same argument about homosexuality's "unnaturalness" can be made against left-handed people or people of different races, etc. In the end it all comes down to human rights. In fact, while I use the term "gay rights" like so many others, it really should be called human rights because that is what it is ultimately all about. Homosexuals are human, and therefore are entitled to the same rights as all humans.

The study (or any such study) is itself of questionable veracity due to the reasons already mentioned. People will lie about such things when living in a culture and society that, while more tolerant than some societies, can still exert a lot of pressure to conform to the “normal.” A gay person who is born to tolerant and accepting parents is lucky and may have no qualms about being a open homosexual but imagine how the gay child of Christian Fundamentalists is going to answer such a question. If one of the Dugger children is gay, do you think they would admit it to a survey, much less publicly (and that’s assuming they have even admitted it to themselves)?

These differing levels of acceptance within our society can create skewed demographics in other ways. Twenty-five ago I worked for a taxi company that had about twenty employees. Twelve were homosexual making the heterosexuals like me the minority. If someone did a survey of us could they reliably concluded that sixty percent of all cab drivers are gay? Or that sixty percent of the people in our town were gay? Obviously not. The real reason for this skewered demographic was that word had spread in the local homosexual community that here was an employer whose only concern was that employees show up on time and do their job to the best of their ability. He didn’t give a rat’s ass who his employees may or not be fucking on their off hours. If one man’s acceptance and tolerance could create such a skewered demographic over-representing gays, then it should not be the least bit surprising that intolerance will lead to under-representation.

The irony here is that the only way a truly cross-sectional representative sample could be recorded is for society to be tolerant enough for gays not to have to worry about admitting their homosexuality… and if we ever reach that point, no one will care enough about “how many gays there are” for such counting to be considered necessary.

I should also note that, while many people would like to deflate the number of gays to advance a political/religious agenda, there are also people (gay rights groups themselves) who would like to inflate the numbers. The notion being, “see how many we are? That’s why we deserve our rights.” While this is an understandable tactic it is still intellectual dishonesty. It is also something of a self defeating position. Human rights should be based upon “humanness,” not on numbers.

Lastly, I would recommend the movie “Milk,” to everyone. Although I think Sean Penn is pretty much an ass in real life I have to give credit where credit is due and admit that he is one of our greatest actors. “Milk” is a well crafted, well acted movie about a man (far from perfect) who showed tremendous courage in standing up for what was right. If you enjoy movies about people fighting the good fight, you’ll like this movie.

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/8/2011 8:30:00 AM

Hillwilliam

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Actually, marc, I have seen accounts where some Amerind tribes revered these people. They were seen as a midpoint between the male and the female and thus, by extension, a midpoint between the living and spirit worlds.

This would make them very powerful shamans (I don't know if that is proper plural of shaman). A band with what was percieved as a powerful shaman gained great status among the neighboring group of bands and was also less likely to be attacked because of this percieved power with the spirit world.

This, of course, a legend and tale because the Plain's Indians had no written language.

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/8/2011 11:04:07 AM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

I find the notion of people running around trying to count the number of gays silly. First of all, why does it matter?

That's all I needed, no need to read further, because that's my exact sentiment too.

But I nevertheless forced myself to take in Marc's whole post and was further indulged with some bit of good sense that unfortunately needs be explained to the less observant in our society, the ease of figuring out the freaking obvious to either me or Marc or a good many others notwithstanding:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

I should also note that, while many people would like to deflate the number of gays to advance a political/religious agenda, there are also people (gay rights groups themselves) who would like to inflate the numbers. The notion being, “see how many we are? That’s why we deserve our rights.” While this is an understandable tactic it is still intellectual dishonesty. It is also something of a self defeating position. Human rights should be based upon “humanness,” not on numbers.

Which conveys the unavoidable consequence of the folly of numbers to deal with a qualitative or in this case a "social consciousness" matter. It's either 'right' or 'wrong' in your or my mind, or acceptable or not either way, so please don't waste either private or public funds in such a completely idiotic and meaningless and fundamentally inappropriate and constitutionally irrelevant venture.

Who cares if a given 'study' of the situation "over represents" or "under represents" the particular group 'under study' when what's really being conveyed by any concern for the numbers at all is a gross over represntaion of the idiots for whom any of this actually matters.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/8/2011 11:08:47 AM >

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/8/2011 11:36:14 AM

Marc2b

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quote:

Actually, marc, I have seen accounts where some Amerind tribes revered these people. They were seen as a midpoint between the male and the female and thus, by extension, a midpoint between the living and spirit worlds.

This would make them very powerful shamans (I don't know if that is proper plural of shaman). A band with what was percieved as a powerful shaman gained great status among the neighboring group of bands and was also less likely to be attacked because of this percieved power with the spirit world.

This, of course, a legend and tale because the Plain's Indians had no written language.

I've heard that some tribes simply allowed homosexual men to live as women. That is, they did women's "work" rather than fulfill masculine roles (I don't know how they dealt with gay women). The truth is that such attitudes probably varied from tribe to tribe. People today have a tendency to lump the Native Americans together but they were not a mono-culture by any stretch of the imagination.

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/8/2011 11:48:34 AM

LanceHughes

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Placemarker for later, when I've got a little more time.
Right now, I will say, I'm going for maybe 8 or 9%. And that is NOT a WAG!

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RE: Study Says Gays are 1.7% of the Population - 4/8/2011 11:48:54 AM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Actually, marc, I have seen accounts where some Amerind tribes revered these people. They were seen as a midpoint between the male and the female and thus, by extension, a midpoint between the living and spirit worlds.

This would make them very powerful shamans (I don't know if that is proper plural of shaman). A band with what was percieved as a powerful shaman gained great status among the neighboring group of bands and was also less likely to be attacked because of this percieved power with the spirit world.

This, of course, a legend and tale because the Plain's Indians had no written language.

I've heard that some tribes simply allowed homosexual men to live as women. That is, they did women's "work" rather than fulfill masculine roles (I don't know how they dealt with gay women). The truth is that such attitudes probably varied from tribe to tribe. People today have a tendency to lump the Native Americans together but they were not a mono-culture by any stretch of the imagination.

It's a damn shame about all the lore and history that was lost when they were (for all practical purposes) exterminated.

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