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Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 12:37:34 AM   
CERCKL


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quote:

Firstly you and you lone decide who you recognise as your peers....

Secondly, what happens between you and your girl in the bathroom/bedroom is between you two and fuck anyone who wants to tell you or treat you as being less than the Dominant you are.... It is going to sound brutal, but from a Gorean Master to a Dominant, with respect .. Stand Up Man and be a MAN.. Your own MAN! Your girl will love you all the more and have even greater respect for you as will I dare say others..


Post from Iron Bear in another thread...and for once I decided to set aside the asshole element of myself and NOT hijack the thread...
Two things I got from this...the fear that we have of whomever we decide is our peers. To be honest, I recognize a group of people whom share a very general frame of reference as I do; some I agree with, alot that I don't and very few whom I have developed a strong sense of respect for...personally. I do not care if I am "Dom" enough in anyone's eyes...let alone other "Doms" or those who do not belong to me; that is just me, I am not quite as antagonistic as I used to be about myself and how I define myself or act...I rarely poke at others' beliefs, religions or actions just to watch the tempest fury. Still, few affect me...directly at least. I am many things and fulfill many roles for different people, just as we all do: father, son, ex-husband, Master, employee, neighbor, modeler, artist, friend, seeker...etc, etc. and though core elements which I have created my 'personality' from tends to flow from role to role...If in my role as Dominant, one doesn't agree how I perceive, act, etc...as long as I act with integrity, honesty, intent which measures up to my own standards, well, they can fuck themselves or to quote Lee Ving " Don't bite down so hard next time I come"...just as I don't push my spiritual beliefs down anyone else's throat, I sure as hell don't push my Dominant elements down anyone else's throat either ( well, okay, perhaps I do...).
Second aspect I got from Iron Bear's post was "It is going to sound brutal"... I have posted before about intensity, honesty, respect; these are areas I observe in myself and sometimes to tell someone something isn't just nodding your head "yes"... I do believe that honesty doesn't have to be used as a blunt object but sometimes it does...I am learning to curb my intensity (though it had been pointed out that I am limiting myself by doing so) but it had also been pointed out that my personality can be overwhelming for those not prepared for my full focus, attention (imagine-fucking-that...). In some ways I am not looking to frighten others away but in other ways, it does weed out those I don't need along this path at this time anyway...besides a close friend of over twenty years did point out, I am a lot less difficult and draining to be around now that I've mellowed out than I was when I was 20-21 or so...
Point to this rant? Take what you will; just that IB hit a resonance here for me...be true to yourself, don't get so caught up how 'proper' or correct you might be, unless you're attending the First Southern Baptist Church of BDSM...breathe, experience, live.

Now I return you to your original programming and I need to re-adjust my asshole mask.

C


Dammit, edited cuz I STILL don't have a proofreader...

< Message edited by CERCKL -- 5/9/2006 12:46:27 AM >

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AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."
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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 12:42:38 AM   
BitaTruble


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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 1:01:37 AM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline 		Just one word:  BRAVO!!!!

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 1:06:02 AM   
leatherorlace


Posts: 215
Joined: 2/21/2005
Status: offline 		Discovery is the fount that satiates My thirst for knowledge, especially after earning My Doctorate of Delicious Deviance. Finding others that you respect will be so much easier if you accept that the "Parrots" are easily culled from the peerage by asking them direct questions and expressing some impatience with all of the , ummmms, ahhhhs, well, I think, therefore, I am, mentalitys.
  Honour can be used by poseurs, too, but they're the ones that, I prefer to expose to My single tail and the wrath of My verbiage. lol
  To thy ownself and that which you own, be true. Don't practice backdoor rendezvous that disrespect your word and property.
  Tell those that have all of the answers that you'll happily tal with them if they can debate subjects deeper than whom should open the door, Master or slave.
  Flock 'em 'n' feed 'em fishheads. lol
Gentry
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_BDSMDs_Church_for_Delicious_Deviance/

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 3:37:15 AM   
HCWT1


Posts: 161
Joined: 7/7/2005
Status: offline 		Got to admit,apon reading threads,i do get hot under the collar(mad) with some of the reasoning put forward.Everybody has a wright to an opinion,but i find myself waiting for the voice of reason,allways puts a smile back on my face.
On every forum iv'e ever read,its never hard to find those that have walked the walk,and can talk the talk.

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 3:39:55 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
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Status: offline 		Well said, C and Gentry.

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 4:43:39 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		The problems I have with such threads as this is that it is easy to talk and cheer but it is ultimately meaningless.

Sorry for being cynical, that's the way I am. We all have feet of clay, we are all good at spouting platitudes but I ultimately wonder how people do operate in a world that constantly throws up moral dilemas where there isn't a right or wrong and whichever way you jump you are going to hurt someone or do something others will see as just plain wrong. Where do such absolutes come in then?

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 5/9/2006 4:44:31 AM >

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 5:18:55 AM   
slaveladyj


Posts: 161
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		To quote
'to thy ownself be true'
because at the end of the day, we have no one to answer to but ourselves. If you feel shame at your actions, then maybe your actions were shameful. Yes, I know, there are many out there without a conscious, and believe everything and anything they do is fine when it isn't. Thankfully, I do believe that those are the minority. I think most people, no matter their beliefs seek to do what is right and fair for all, not just for themselves. It is also those with a conscious that seem to question their own moves and motives more than those without one. At  night, when the world is quiet, we take it upon ourselves to question our day's activities and hope we made the right decisions in all we do. What is right for us, and those that depend upon us. You must find peace within yourself and not fear what others will say and do.
That's my two cents anyway.

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 5:25:11 AM   
MizSuz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveladyj

To quote
'to thy ownself be true'
because at the end of the day, we have no one to answer to but ourselves. If you feel shame at your actions, then maybe your actions were shameful.



The quote is

"This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man."

Which pretty much sums up what you said.  Live in your integrity and you can't help but have integrity in your relations.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 5:55:46 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		As always, there's a balance.

Being true to yourself is always of the utmost importance, even if it means being very lonely.

However, if you have 20 people coming up to you , or even one person very closed to you, and saying "You've got a problem here/You're being a dumbass" it's a smart person who at least CONSIDERS what they are saying and works through it to find what is right for them. 

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 6:02:04 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

The quote is

"This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man."



That's all very well if you're a mass murderer. LOL which is why I get cynical of such threads.

Intergrity ; a being of wholeness, unimpaired condition, soundness, uprightness, honesty and sincerity.

Once again just words.

A person might have integrity. This could fit President Bush and his invasion of Iraq if he really believed he was being honest and true to himself!

If someone hits me with what I perceive to be a malicious act even if they believe they acted with intergrity, they are still a bastard as far as I'm concerned.

It's all meaningless.

If I acted with intergrity and fucked someones life up, I can justify my actions by saying I was being honest and true to myself.  It is a way of rationalising ones behaviour and avoiding taking responsibilty for ones actions. There is no objective measurement as to whether a person was being honest and true to themselves other than the impact of ones actions on someone else.

Edited: An extreme example to make a point. Hitler could be said to have been true to himself and acted with intergrity. To construct such definitions in a vacuum is utterly meaningless and without any moral foundation.

Without a baseline measurement 'being to ture to oneself' is the ultimate excuse in selfishness.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 5/9/2006 6:36:03 AM >

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 6:54:16 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		Surely in these kinds of relationships, more than any others, there's a need to be honest with others, and true to ourselves.  Without trust the power exchange isn't possible, or safe.  You can't conceal who you really are, not if the relationship is going to last.

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 7:13:23 AM   
CERCKL


Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
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quote:

As always, there's a balance.

Being true to yourself is always of the utmost importance, even if it means being very lonely.

However, if you have 20 people coming up to you , or even one person very closed to you, and saying "You've got a problem here/You're being a dumbass" it's a smart person who at least CONSIDERS what they are saying and works through it to find what is right for them. 


Point had not been made, but was sorta inferred regarding those I trusted and respected...certainly; one should listen to others...and ties into my consideration of honesty. When someone I trust, respect says something, especially something I don't want to hear; I step back, look, consider, see how much info they have etc, etc...and say that they're right and change if need be. Not an island, not solitairy...just a matter of how much influence anyone else mmight have on me...

C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 7:13:55 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Cleaver,

I understand your cynicism but being true to oneself isn't an end unto itself.  We are not talking act on every impulse that comes your way, but to worrry less about what others think and more about your own path.

There is a saying about patriotism, it is the last refuge of the scoundrel, it could go for honor, integrity, and all the other wonderful words that stand for beautiful concepts.

That said, the original post as well as Iron Bear's were simply stating that it is important to pick those of whom you listen to when they tell you you are being an idiot.  I am an opinionated ass and often get told I am a rabble rouser.  I ignore the label when most people say that, but there are those whose opinion I respect that when THEY say it, I stop and reaxamine my motives, my words, and my actions.

People enter the scene and get told to go in 20 directions at once by the crowd, being new, they don't know who to believe.  I am working with a male submissive at the moment and I am directing him to be true to himself.  He keeps being worried if he is a bottom or a sub and I keep telling him who the fuck cares, explore and pick a label later if you still want one. 

I myself am reentering the scene after a long absense and I am going through the same ordeal in my own way.  I am a much different person than I was five years ago, wiser, a tiny bit more humble, a bit less argumentative, and much much less worried about peers.  They are out there and if I hear a few of them say the same thing to me (oh our delicious patterns) I take notice and examine myself .


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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 7:14:35 AM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		CERCKL and meatcleaver ( My gawd where else in the world would someone be adressing a serious email to people with such names! LOL)
 
I think you are both right--however, life is a dance on the saber, IMHEO--there has to be a balance--if I was always true to Me, My mom would not have been moved with Me twice to avoid leaving her behind---because it was the right thing for the family--not necessarily for Me always. That is only one example of what I perceive to be selflessnes--however, I think what you are saying is a tad different--
 
One has to be true to one's self---and that means at times making the hard decisions about and for other people--where one's self matters little or cannot matter---it is for the good of them--versus the times that one must make the decisions for and about themselves.
 
Then there is the living with those decisions--believing in those decisions--no matter what--regardless of what one's peers think. This is where I see the dance on the saber---" I make this decision and all others be damned--or I will be damned by others if I make this decision"--the question becomes--at what price?
 

edited to try and get the point clearer--
 

< Message edited by MHOO314 -- 5/9/2006 7:18:12 AM >

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 7:15:00 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Okay, here is the abridged version and vastly less long winded...

People who talk about themselves and their issues I listen to

People who talk about how things "should" be done...I don't.

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 7:22:08 AM   
CERCKL


Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
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quote:

If someone hits me with what I perceive to be a malicious act even if they believe they acted with intergrity, they are still a bastard as far as I'm concerned.

It's all meaningless.

If I acted with intergrity and fucked someones life up, I can justify my actions by saying I was being honest and true to myself.  It is a way of rationalising ones behaviour and avoiding taking responsibilty for ones actions. There is no objective measurement as to whether a person was being honest and true to themselves other than the impact of ones actions on someone else.


Yep it is all meaningless...but why are you concerned how the other person acts in the first place? Wasn't that part of the point...oh, could be, since I was the one who made the original post, Nyaaaahh...
You cannot control the other person, you cannot control how they react, you cannot controil jack-fucking-shit if you get down to it except for your own self. Period....and most of the time, you prob'ly can't do that; unless you've worked on self-control, awareness, consciously deciding, creating how you'll react each moment.
As for justifications, rationalizations...DY'A THINK???  What??? People NOT wanting to take responsibility for how they act??? Where??? Man, my whole faith in this culture and our species has just been shaken to the core, god, I can't go on....
But I do want to thank you for bringing Hitler into my personal rant...very cool; now If we can get Jesus, Stalin and Nixon, it'll be a party! Truesub drinks for all!!! Now where did I put that sponge of vinegar????


C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 7:24:14 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Hmm One really needs to start with being honest with oneself first and declaring one is taking a certain action because they are being true to oneself doesn't cut it with me. It's a get out of jail free card.

Of course there is no external measurement for this which is why I say such threads full of platitudes are meaningless.

Someone insisting they have integrity and are being true to themselves is hot air, usually a rationalisation and reason not to be contrite and shoulder the burden of responsibility. You can only judge someone by their deeds.

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 7:28:34 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL

Yep it is all meaningless...but why are you concerned how the other person acts in the first place? Wasn't that part of the point...oh, could be, since I was the one who made the original post, Nyaaaahh...
You cannot control the other person, you cannot control how they react, you cannot controil jack-fucking-shit if you get down to it except for your own self. Period....and most of the time, you prob'ly can't do that; unless you've worked on self-control, awareness, consciously deciding, creating how you'll react each moment.
As for justifications, rationalizations...DY'A THINK???  What??? People NOT wanting to take responsibility for how they act??? Where??? Man, my whole faith in this culture and our species has just been shaken to the core, god, I can't go on....
But I do want to thank you for bringing Hitler into my personal rant...very cool; now If we can get Jesus, Stalin and Nixon, it'll be a party! Truesub drinks for all!!! Now where did I put that sponge of vinegar????

C


What do you want me to do, stand up and applaud? That really would make the thread meaningless.

You can stop stomping your feet now, shoes are expensive.

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RE: Peers...Rant. (My first) - 5/9/2006 8:32:32 AM   
slaveladyj


Posts: 161
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		Writers have this thing, when another writer edits and comments on their work, they say, take what works for you, disregard the rest. To us that means, this is how one person thinks the scene should play out, but not the only way the scene could play out. In other words, listen, hear, but in the end do what works for you. After all, you are the writer of your own life. Again, I know there are people that take this to extremes, people like Hitler, and Bush to an extent, and serial killers and rapists and others without conscious. The rest of us sane and normal people however can't let ourselves be constantly worrying about what others think, say and do. We live with ourselves, not the others.

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