An ethical issue.

An ethical issue. (Full Version)

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DarkSteven -> An ethical issue. (4/14/2011 7:11:47 AM)
I have been increasingly bothered by the growing tendency in politics to spread bold faced lies. Obama is of course the target of most of them - the lies about him being a Muslim, a noncitizen, the death panels, etc. The plain and simple truth is that fact checking is becoming a lost art, and that lies are much more effective than the truth. Kyl is the latest liar, with his whopper that abortion is 90% of what Planned Parenthood does. http://www.collarchat.com/m_3633945/tm.htm Colbert has since ridiculed him in such a way as to wound Kyl by making it impossible for anyone to take him seriously. That said, what Colbert is doing to Kyl could effectively end the career of any politician. It's not as bad as spreading lies about him maliciously, but it's pretty effective. While I support what Colbert is doing and hope that this will serve as a disincentive for future pols to pull statistics and facts out of their asses, the power of ridicule like this worries me should it ever become abused...

Hillwilliam -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/14/2011 10:40:56 AM)
A lie makes it around the world before the truth gets out of bed in the morning.

joether -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/14/2011 11:10:33 AM)
The two things that worked against Kyl was 1) The Facts and 2) Willingness to make them known. What is more surprising then some US Senator completely lying about the facts of the matter, is that those around him, see that he did nothing wrong. To some extent Democrats can be blamed, but they are on the opposite side of the aisle. No, its Republicans, who already share both a history and attitude for misrepresenting the truth and fact of an issue/matter to the general public. Even worst, are the folks who then reelect these folks back to their seat. In the scope of saying untruthful stuff, Sen. Kyl may have said something really bad, but its a 'one time thing'. Rep. Michelle Bachmann on the other hand, spews unfactual and complete lies (not to mention just getting facts wrong) at a decent clip. Who in the Republican Party will hold her accountable to her words and actions? Likewise, given this woman's words and actions, and the fact she was recently re-elected. I have to conduct that her district is made up of total idiots. Sen Kyl's district should just be informed of the level of ignorance their Senator displayed to the nation. BTW, when was the last time we say Republicans being ethical on any issue?

tazzygirl -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/14/2011 11:32:18 AM)
Two things come into play when I hear lies. 1) Did the person know they were lying? Thats important. If someone says 86%, but meant 68%, then I will accept that they had a dyslexic moment. If someone says one thousand, instead of ten thousand, again, benefit of a doubt, they dropped a zero somewhere. But, in my opinion, if you are arguing to take something away from so many people, you should have your facts straight, documented, and set in stone. I cant give him this benefit of the doubt. 90% is no where close to 3%, no dyslexia will give you that number, no dropped zero, no typo, nothing can explain it. 2) The reaction after the lie is caught. If they fess up and admit it was an error, then I may buy into that. But to state he gave an exact figure, then didnt intend for it to be factual.... Sorry... he is getting what he deserves.

Lucylastic -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/14/2011 2:34:24 PM)
What Taz said, and that goes for any politician, independent, lib and con or however they announce themselves. Its about bloody time actually. "not intended to be a factual statement" I hope that Kyl loses all credibility and ends up as a janitor where his lies wont hurt womens rights

Kirata -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/14/2011 2:50:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven the growing tendency in politics to spread bold faced lies. Obama is of course the target of most of them... Some people think he's not doing bad himself... I rarely heard a speech by a president so shallow, so hyper-partisan and so intellectually dishonest ~Charles Krauthammer The speech he chose to deliver was dishonest even by modern political standards ~Wall Street Journal K.

jlf1961 -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/14/2011 3:02:38 PM)
I have heard right wing media claims that Obama has lied in speeches, even one congressman did it during a speech. However when called on it, all they can provide more right wing propaganda which is nothing but lies and innuendo. Can we say "Death Panels?"

Lucylastic -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/14/2011 3:08:26 PM)
Ive never heard anyone say "it was not intended to be a factual statement" in reply to a statement mind you I dont discount it being said again

Kirata -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/14/2011 4:58:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I have heard right wing media claims that Obama has lied in speeches... If you're going to toss Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist Charles Krauthammer and the Wall Street Journal into the "right-wing media" wastebasket, then your definition of right-wing media is nothing more or less than anyone who disagrees with you on anything, anytime, anywhere. K.

DarkSteven -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/14/2011 5:27:07 PM)
I didn't express myself well. Lying is a very effective tactic. Reducing someone to a figure of fun is devastatingly effective as well. I'm wondering if the response to a lie might be overkill. Not in this case (he clearly deserved it, and he's about to retire anyway), but it could be used to knock off a Presidential candidate easily.

luckydawg -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/14/2011 5:57:50 PM)
for instance a lie that a person was AWOL?

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/14/2011 6:33:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether Rep. Michelle Bachmann on the other hand, spews unfactual and complete lies (not to mention just getting facts wrong) at a decent clip. Who in the Republican Party will hold her accountable to her words and actions? Likewise, given this woman's words and actions, and the fact she was recently re-elected. I have to conduct that her district is made up of total idiots. Pretty much. Her district is only a few miles from my house, and I interact with these fucking morons every day. They're the some of the stupidest sacks of shit I've ever met in my life. Every one I talk to genuinely believes - to an absolute certainty - that every single thing she says is the gospel truth. You simply can't tell them otherwise. They go blankfaced and glassy-eyed, and start stuttering meaningless phrases like "uhh... duh....." and "yeah, but, uhhhh...." The TV stations here regularly do "fact check" segments on her latest round of lies, and invariably get inundated with e-mails from Bachmanheads accusing them of conducting a witch hunt. Complete fucking imbeciles. But then again, what would you expect from anyone stupid enough to vote for that ignorant Nazi whore in the first place?

tweakabelle -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/14/2011 6:55:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Ive never heard anyone say "it was not intended to be a factual statement" in reply to a statement mind you I dont discount it being said again How about running a "Liar of the Month" Award? With a special barrel of pork for the annual winner? Presented at a gala dinner with non-stop mockery of the idiot who won? All on prime time TV hosted by Colbert? Would that work? What ideas are around to ensure that politicians tell us the truth? How can we make it plain to them that we don't want any more lies (or WMDs)? Theoretically in a democracy, we can pass judgement on their honesty (among other things) at elections. The media is supposed to keep them honest too but look at Faux News .... just as crooked as the politicians! So I doubt if any one could claim that the system as it stands is sufficient disincentive.

imperatrixx -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/15/2011 10:50:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven I didn't express myself well. Lying is a very effective tactic. Reducing someone to a figure of fun is devastatingly effective as well. I'm wondering if the response to a lie might be overkill. Not in this case (he clearly deserved it, and he's about to retire anyway), but it could be used to knock off a Presidential candidate easily. Two words. Howard Dean.

joether -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/15/2011 12:54:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imperatrixx quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven I didn't express myself well. Lying is a very effective tactic. Reducing someone to a figure of fun is devastatingly effective as well. I'm wondering if the response to a lie might be overkill. Not in this case (he clearly deserved it, and he's about to retire anyway), but it could be used to knock off a Presidential candidate easily. Two words. Howard Dean. Yeah, cus Mr. Dean has lied on the scale and depth of the average GOP/Tea Party offical or presidental hopeful? If Mr. Dean's lies were like apples, I'd have a hard time filling one barrel. For Republicans, I could go into the apple business with $10 Billion net profit a year. And thanks to them, propably keep 99.999% from taxes too...

pahunkboy -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/15/2011 12:58:14 PM)
and what the definition of is- IS>

Lucylastic -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/15/2011 1:08:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Ive never heard anyone say "it was not intended to be a factual statement" in reply to a statement mind you I dont discount it being said again How about running a "Liar of the Month" Award? With a special barrel of pork for the annual winner? Presented at a gala dinner with non-stop mockery of the idiot who won? All on prime time TV hosted by Colbert? Would that work? What ideas are around to ensure that politicians tell us the truth? How can we make it plain to them that we don't want any more lies (or WMDs)? Theoretically in a democracy, we can pass judgement on their honesty (among other things) at elections. The media is supposed to keep them honest too but look at Faux News .... just as crooked as the politicians! So I doubt if any one could claim that the system as it stands is sufficient disincentive. I cant keep up Tweak, theres so many of them, altho I think it would be perfect for Colbert to do, and I would tune in for sure. When the facts are out there and its an obvious lie, like Kyl's , put him in a hockey goal, spreadeagled and then let the top ten NHL teams shoot pucks at the goal for three periods Yeah Im seriously into the playoffs this year... Id pay to watch that !!!

slvemike4u -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/15/2011 1:20:06 PM)
Hockey ? Pffftt,not even an American sport...it went away on strike once,and nobody even noticed [:)]

tazzygirl -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/15/2011 1:25:16 PM)
Pst, mike. Tell that to the Penguin fans here in Pittsburgh!

slvemike4u -> RE: An ethical issue. (4/15/2011 1:30:12 PM)
Why would I deign to converse with someone silly enough to live in Pittsburgh.....have you ever seen their baseball team play?

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