RE: Frustrated Diabetic (Full Version)

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kalikshama -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 5:43:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

For instance, I would never recommend to an insulin dependant diabetic to take a couple of extra units of insulin and eat a bowl of fruit loops, just because it "works for me".
As I said in an earlier post. I don't do it  because it "works for me". I do it because that was the advice of my diabetes team. Not just one of them, all of them. Not just here in Ottawa, but back home as well. That's over a dozen medical personnel who specialize in diabetes treatment. I would not do it on my own!

Heather



Your post 23 is what started this whole Fruit Loops discussion:

quote:

I also have a problem eating breakfast. I just have no appetite in the mornings. The way I've gotten around it is to take an extra unit of insulin and eat a bowl of fruit loops for breakfast. I really enjoy the taste and now find that I look forward to my morning bowl. Maybe making breakfast a treat would help you get into the habit of eating it.


I feel that a mother who did this to a diabetic child would be guilty of child abuse. You're 18 and have the right to abuse yourself, but if you offer taking extra insulin so you can eat Froot Loops as approved by 12 medical personnel I will call bullshit.

I'm not giving medical advice. I'm saying Froot Loops are not nutritious. Go ahead and debate that, or feel free to put me on ignore and enjoy the rest of the forums.
[image]http://www.southernmamas.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/cereals1.jpg[/image]





Arpig -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 6:16:28 AM)

quote:

I feel that a mother who did this to a diabetic child would be guilty of child abuse. You're 18 and have the right to abuse yourself, but if you offer taking extra insulin so you can eat Froot Loops as approved by 12 medical personnel I will call bullshit.
You know, you really piss me off! You call bullshit? Well you'd be wrong.

Granted, in my case its No-Name Honey Nut Cheerios (I can't get enough of them!!) and not Fruit Loops. The advice she was given is exactly the advice I was given (by 7 medical types in my case). I was told that if what I was going to eat had a higher than usual carb content, I was simply to add a unit or two of insulin to whatever was indicated by the test meter. When I inquired how often I could do this, I was told "every meal if you want."

Now, this may be contrary to how you think diabetes is managed, but as you know fuck all about it, and Heather and I actually live with it, I really don't give a shit what you think. I have no reason to lie to you about this, and I doubt Heather has any as well. The fact that our actual real-life experience contradicts your baseless uneducated assumptions is not at issue. Kindly accept the word of those who know what they are talking about, and when a topic is beyond your ken, keep your fingers off the keys.

You are, of course intitled to your opinions, as ill-informed and incorrect as they are. I will concede that there might be some who appreciate your contribution to the thread, I am not one of them.

Now go bother somebody who gives a shit about you and your erroneous ideas.



Termyn8or -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 6:41:27 AM)

"I have only one thing to say to you: GO FUCK YOURSELF!! "

OK. I said what I said. Now all that's left to do is some stretching exercises.........

Now for some real medical advice. Don't eat rat poison. Take it or leave it.

T^T



Phoenixpower -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 6:58:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
Now, this may be contrary to how you think diabetes is managed, but as you know fuck all about it, and Heather and I actually live with it, I really don't give a shit what you think. I have no reason to lie to you about this, and I doubt Heather has any as well. The fact that our actual real-life experience contradicts your baseless uneducated assumptions is not at issue. Kindly accept the word of those who know what they are talking about, and when a topic is beyond your ken, keep your fingers off the keys.


Sending out my respect to the folks on here who have to manage their diabetes.

Whilst I don't have diabetes I did work with some clients with disabilities who had diabetes and there was one lady within their crowd where it was a nightmare to control her sugar levels. So I can relate well to what the theory says and what reality is like.

Her sugar levels were like a jojo (she had diabetes since 35+ years by then) and I was grateful every morning after I had sleep-in shift there that I did not have to wake up during the night to grab the liquid necessay due to her slipping into a hypoglucemia shock (not thankful due to getting up for her but due to the dangers it would have been for her to slip into such a state). Thankfully it did not happen once in my nights during almost two years, whereas with some colleagues it did happen and I had quite a few nights where I had used every trick in the book I could think of to get her freaking levels up or down (more up than down) at times working way longer in the night to get them up than I was supposed to.

Sometimes she did not response for ages to get her levels up and then ended up extremely high after the night.

So respect to the ones who have to handle it on a daily basis and I can only agree on it that living with it can be very different to the theories you receive at times from other sources.



kalikshama -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 7:57:46 AM)

Far enough. I will stick to my own experience of managing chronic illness.

When I was diagnosed in 1999, I was fortunate to find a doctor who did not indulge me. He said, you need to make radical changes, which will be hard, but the more changes you make the healthier you will become. It WAS hard, and I ended up losing my husband and my lifestyle, but I slowly regained my health to the point where I am able to manage with minor accommodations.

I'm not perfect; plenty of times I'm self indulgent. I recognize when I make poor choices and take responsibility for them. The more effort I put into my health, the healthier I am. And of course the reverse is true - when I'm indulgent and lazy my health suffers. Garbage in, garbage out.

It's time for me to make radical lifestyle changes again. It's going to be hard, and uncomfortable, but I'm willing to make the sacrifices necessary to improve not just my physical health, but emotional and spiritual health as well.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 8:05:19 AM)

~FAST REPLY~

Adjusting your insulin to counteract bad eating habits is, of course, quite doable. The point is that for ANY diabetic, type 1 or type 2, the idea is to try to eat as properly as possible to minimize the amount of insulin needed or medication.

You can adjust your insulin every time you plan on drinking yourself into oblivion, but I doubt any "team" of specialists are going to give you the "go ahead" for that and tell you it is perfectly fine.

Adjusting insulin for a morning bowl of fruit loops isn't a big deal. What Kali doesn't understand is that the bowl isn't being eaten for its nutritional value, it is being eaten because, nutritional or not, it is still food. I regularly eat fruity pebbles or captian crunchberries for snacks. I am a type 2 without the need for insulin (which is not an intravenous drug by the way), so I will make other adjustments to my daily diet when I do that.

A type 1 diabetic who just increases their insulin to adjust for a really bad diet (which is a lot more than a bowl of froot loops) isn't doing themselves any good. Their blood sugar levels may not be as bad, but they are going to feel like crap.

ETA:

There have been studies though that show certain dyes in food like fruit loops can aggravate other issues like ADHD and bi polar. It could, in theory, also cause anger control issues which result is unreasonable outbursts.



maybemaybenot -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 8:52:55 AM)

FR:

I mean no disrespect to anyone in this reply and hope it is taken for what it is worth:

I believe Arpig and Hannah when they say their medical teams told them to take a few extra units of insulin. However... I suspect that prior to that I there was education given and a diet plan and they both explained to the MDs/Dieticians that they would have trouble adhering to said plan. Whether that be with FrootLoops, Honey Nut Cherios or a meal of overindulgence at the Chinese Buffet < can you tell I'm craving Chinese food today ? > I also suspect that adding the few units of insulin was not the optimal treatment regime the MDs advised, but more a treatment tuned to the persons particular areas of trouble to keep their bodies in sync. And I have seen with my own eyes MDs who adjust the treatment plan to the needs of the individual, including adding a few extra units of insulin. No, they have not said... you'll be fine, no need to be compliant.. but they have given tools to keep their patients BS in control if the patient is honest about not be able or not wanting to make the changes. Personally I do not see that as bad medicine, quite the contrary. One has to treat the individual, not simply see each person as a disease entity.

It is just my opinoin: if they are both tweaking their insulin to get thru breakfast.. no harm done. But if they are tweaking their insulin at every meal in order to eat anything and everything that appeals to them well... that will be a problem down the stretch. I'm not saying they are, not at all. I'm saying a person who does this is running a high risk of early kidney and heart disease related to their diabetes. OTOH, I have said this many times here on this board and it is my firm belief: Using myself as the example ... if I < the nurse > have educated my patients and given them the tools to have the best outcome and they choose to not use it.... it is their body and they have a right to do whatever they want, knowing the risks.

We of course, have the right to chastise, but really in the end.. it is the persons own personal walk in life and they are responsible for where the path leads. I say that in regards to any chronic disease, not just diabetes.

I mentioned a book earlier called the Creation of Health, and maybe the authors sum it up better than I:

"Physicians are not responsible for the quality of a patients health, nor for how succesfully a patient heals. A physician is only responsible for providing the best technology and treatment available in the traditional field, as well as the best counsil he or she is able to provide. But the responisbility for implementing the technologies that are available, as well as to heal one's inner stresses, belongs rightfully to the patient."

mbmbn

PS: to Arpig and Hannah: I used your situation as an example, as it is the one being debated here in this thread. It isn't personal and my post is all encompassing, not aimed at either of you as individuals. I do hope my post was clear about that.



HannahLynHeather -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 11:19:30 AM)

Yes maybemaybenot, that we are being used as an example was clear to me. The reason why I was put on this plan was because I was young when I was diagnosed, and the doctors recognized that a 14 year old would cheat on any diet plan (can you imagine your mid-teen years without junk food?). At first, yes I adjusted a lot, and often didn't adjust. My blood sugar levels were often out of whack.

After a few years I smartened up, not because of any scare or anything drastic, just because I was older and a little more sensible. The idea with this plan is that if your sugar levels can be kept in the proper range with as little trouble as possible, then that's the route to go. You are right about the tweaking of the insulin at every meal being a probably not that good an idea in the long term, but generally I do eat pretty much whatever I want. I have learned to eat properly is all. I have given up deserts of course, except on special occasions. I don't drink fruit juices, I eat fruit instead. I eat a lot more veggies than I used to, and so on.

And LafayetteLady you are also correct in that the Fruit Loops are being eaten simply because I am supposed to eat at a time of day when I have no desire to eat. My other meals are not junk food, and adjusting at every meal would probably be a mistake. My medical team, unlike Arpig's, told me that occasional adjusting was OK. I don't do it for every meal, just for my breakfast. My nutritionist is aware of this habit, and is fine with it.

As to the anger control issue and unreasonable outbursts, well I really am embarrassed that I let him get to me like that. I normally don't fly off the handle like that, but what he was saying and his shrug-of-the-shoulder attitude to the possible damage he might be causing just made me furious. I do apologize to everybody for my outburst, that's not normally me, and I'll do my best to not let things get to me like that in the future.

Heather




tazzygirl -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 1:25:48 PM)

Arpig, is this like the carb counting method of taking insulin?



Arpig -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 1:43:02 PM)

No, tazzy, its instead of carb counting. The way it works is you eat a normal healthy balanced diet. Before each meal you test your blood sugar and take the number of units of insulin directed by a simple little chart.

If you are going to be eating something with a lot of carbs (say a piece of pie, or a big plate of lasagna), then you add an extra unit or two of insulin. The goal is to keep your glucose levels within the normal range, and as long as they are within that range, then its all OK.

They told me to use this method because I told them upfront that I was never going to actually do the carb counting...I know myself, and that is just too fucking much bother for me. from what I gather, the counting is the prefered method, but as long as your glucose levels are within range, this method is their 2nd choice.

I am going to go with the assumption that this method is perfectly acceptable simply because it is what I was told to do by the endocrinology teams at two different hospitals as was Heather, though I suspect one of those was the same hospital as one of mine, so to be safe we will say at 3 hospitals. That's an awful lot of specialists to be making the same mistake, which a lot of people on here are determined they are doing.



tazzygirl -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 3:00:02 PM)

Oh Im not assuming you are making a mistake, its your health, I would go with the assumption you are doing as told. Last time I dealt with diabetic patients it was all sliding scales and counting carbs. I like this method, I think, as long as its something that the patient is closely monitoring.



Arpig -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 3:38:26 PM)

quote:

I like this method, I think, as long as its something that the patient is closely monitoring.
Yeah, I agree. And it would probably work better for me if I weren't such an absent minded lazy-assed self-indulgent motherfucker.

What I need is a dirty girl who can make me my meals and remind me to take my shots...all while wearing nothing but a smile. Any body feel like volunteering?



tazzygirl -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 5:03:33 PM)

Ahhh.. if only...[:D]



DeviantlyD -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 9:42:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Now for some real medical advice. Don't eat rat poison. Take it or leave it.

T^T


In a way, that piece of advice could have dire consequences for a considerable number of people on this planet. There is an oral anticoagulant under the name of Coumadin that is taken by individuals who are at risk for thrombosis (clotting within the vasculature) that could lead to heart attack or stroke. These people must take an anticoagulant of some form or another (Coumadin is most commonly prescribed) for life. Coumadin, also known as warfarin, was once used as...rat poison. :)



Termyn8or -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 10:48:27 PM)

Deviant - LOL. Yes, strychnine(sp) is used in a few drugs, and IIRC moreso in the manufacture of others.

Kinda gives you that warm fuzzy feeling doesn't it ?

They used to say if I knew what was in a hotdog I would never eat one. Well if people knew how some of this shit is made, not just drugs but FOOD, they wouldn't want any part of it. That fast food burger may have had it's "meat" soaked with ammonia. Yummy.

But that's not medical advice, drink all the ammonia you want folks. Hell food doesn't have to be nonpoisonous or nutritious. I guess that's just one of those fancy old myths onto which I cling for dear life.

T^T



maybemaybenot -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 11:09:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

Yes maybemaybenot, that we are being used as an example was clear to me. The reason why I was put on this plan was because I was young when I was diagnosed, and the doctors recognized that a 14 year old would cheat on any diet plan (can you imagine your mid-teen years without junk food?). At first, yes I adjusted a lot, and often didn't adjust. My blood sugar levels were often out of whack.

After a few years I smartened up, not because of any scare or anything drastic, just because I was older and a little more sensible. The idea with this plan is that if your sugar levels can be kept in the proper range with as little trouble as possible, then that's the route to go. You are right about the tweaking of the insulin at every meal being a probably not that good an idea in the long term, but generally I do eat pretty much whatever I want. I have learned to eat properly is all. I have given up deserts of course, except on special occasions. I don't drink fruit juices, I eat fruit instead. I eat a lot more veggies than I used to, and so on.




No, I cannot imagine being a diabetic as a young person. I have had friends who were childhood onset diabetics and it was a very difficult road.

What I gleaned from your post and Arpig's is that you are each on a version of a sliding scale treatment approach. That's why I added that I wasn't saying that I thought you were tweaking every meal every day. Sliding Scale treatment is widely used here too for Type 1 diabetics.

mbmbn



gungadin09 -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 11:40:04 PM)

OP, tea (black, green, and oolong) drunk without milk is supposed to help with diabetes.


note:
gungadin09 is not a doctor and her post should not be taken as informed medical advice. Please consult a doctor before changing your diet or excercise regiment. gungadin09 is not responsible for any harm, accident, or side effect that may occur from drinking tea. Anyone choosing to drink tea does so at their own risk. This post does not constitute any promise or guarantee about the efficacy of tea in treating diabetes. Tea alone does not cure diabetes. Individual results will vary. Thank you.

pam



Termyn8or -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/20/2011 11:57:26 PM)

"note:
gungadin09 is not a doctor and her post should not be taken as .........."

Yeah well you see what happened here.

T^T



gungadin09 -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/21/2011 12:05:17 AM)

Yes, hence the disclaimer.

pam



Termyn8or -> RE: Frustrated Diabetic (4/21/2011 1:05:21 AM)

You are fucking dangerous. You just gave me an idea.

I know what I am going to do, I just don't know where to put it quite yet.

T^T



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