RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (Full Version)

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LafayetteLady -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 6:05:46 AM)

~FAST REPLY~

I certainly wouldn't use games as a measure of intelligence. However, my ex husband was dumb as dirt and it did contribute to the failure of the relationship.

Someone doesn't need to be equal to or smarter than me. They do however, need to posess their own intelligence. As chauvenistic as it is, there are certain things men need to be able to do for me to like them. I can't stand when men can't drive a stick shift or be able to fix things. No measure of intelligence of course, but they are "manly" traits to me. A man should know basic home repairs (actually so should women), and a man who doesn't, meaning I have to do them all just loses value in my eyes.

Of course, that is just what I personally seek in a mate (among other things), and certainly doesn't and shouldn't apply to others.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 9:24:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
As chauvenistic as it is, there are certain things men need to be able to do for me to like them. I can't stand when men can't drive a stick shift or be able to fix things. No measure of intelligence of course, but they are "manly" traits to me. A man should know basic home repairs.....and a man who doesn't loses value in my eyes.


Okay, I have to take issue with this way of thinking.  I'm not saying that it's "wrong".  After all, you are entitled to desire any traits you desire in a potential partner.

My problems is with the very stereotypical things that you call "manly traits".  Personally, I can't repair a car.  I can change a flat tire and a battery, but that's about it.  If the car won't start, I call AAA.  Similarly, I can do a few very minor repairs around the house.  For example, if I flip the switch and the lights don't come on, I change the light bulb.  But if that doesn't work, I'm calling an electrician.  If I come home and find that the toilet is leaking, I'm calling a plumber.

I'm definitely white collar.  I can't do many of the blue collar chores that you outline.  But I can afford to pay someone to come to my house and fix the roof.  I don't have to climb a ladder and apply new roofing by hand.  Nor do I want to.

I don't feel that I'm any less "manly" because I pay others to do much of the manual labor around the house. Besides, is it better to have a man who CAN fix things but has a "honey do" list as long as his arm, or a man who CAN'T fix things, but who makes sure that they get fixed the moment a problem arises?  I'm in the latter camp, and I don't feel any less manly for being so.

I know this is a digression from the topic of this thread, but I had to comment on your statement.

End of digression.



cloudboy -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 12:04:39 PM)

Chess results reveal more than a particular game's result. There is time management, imagination, resourcefulness, sportsmanship, etc.

When reading about the dating psychologies of men and women, I would postulate its the rare man who could date Susan Polgar. Male egos have a hard time with female superiority, and tend to translate female strengths into male insecurities.



kalikshama -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 1:12:50 PM)

quote:

Besides, is it better to have a man who CAN fix things but has a "honey do" list as long as his arm, or a man who CAN'T fix things, but who makes sure that they get fixed the moment a problem arises? 


When I was married to Mr FixIt, he spent most of his free time in the garage/workroom. While he had many good qualities, his political philosophy of "bomb 'em back into the Stone Age" was not one of them.

Given your A/B scenario, next time around I'd pick someone like you (but on the other side of the whip :)



kalikshama -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 1:24:34 PM)

quote:

As chauvenistic as it is, there are certain things men need to be able to do for me to like them. I can't stand when men can't drive a stick shift or be able to fix things. No measure of intelligence of course, but they are "manly" traits to me. A man should know basic home repairs (actually so should women), and a man who doesn't, meaning I have to do them all just loses value in my eyes.


My mother stayed at home until my younger brother was 10. She did basic home repairs. My grandfather gave my mother a chainsaw for her 50th birthday. No helpless housewife there!

I don't think my father ever changed a light bulb or a roll of toilet paper. He was completely at a loss when the marriage ended and he had to fend for himself.

Except for avoiding chainsaws and sewing machines, I'm more like my mother. When I visit her in the summers, I bring my mending, so she thinks I own nothing but rags and takes me shopping :)




Rochsub2009 -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 1:27:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
quote:

Besides, is it better to have a man who CAN fix things but has a "honey do" list as long as his arm, or a man who CAN'T fix things, but who makes sure that they get fixed the moment a problem arises? 


When I was married to Mr FixIt, he spent most of his free time in the garage/workroom.


See, who needs that crap?  Not only do I pay to have "manly" chores taken care of, but I also pay a maid service to do the "womanly" chores.  So any woman that I'm in a relationship with doesn't have to spend hours doing laundry and mopping floors.  IMO, that time is better spent doing leisure activities as a couple.

Frankly, spending weekends doing chores around the house sucks!  I'd rather play golf, or spend the weekend on my boat.



VaguelyCurious -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 1:37:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

Besides, is it better to have a man who CAN fix things but has a "honey do" list as long as his arm, or a man who CAN'T fix things, but who makes sure that they get fixed the moment a problem arises?

False dichotomy: it's better not to have a honey-do list at all, but just...fix stuff when it breaks, whoever notices it first. If I lived with someone who called an electrician every time a fuse needed changing or a plumber every time there was a sink blockage I'd be creeped out (I do not like random workmen in my home, no siree.)

In answer to the actual question: I grew up surrounded by fiercely intellectual grown-ups. People who can't understand scientific method, or history, or music kind of weird me out - but it's the ability to understand I value, rather than knowledge. I don't think I could be in a relationship with someone who couldn't understand academic things.

Can't play chess for shit, though.



Focus50 -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 1:59:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
As chauvenistic as it is, there are certain things men need to be able to do for me to like them. I can't stand when men can't drive a stick shift or be able to fix things. No measure of intelligence of course, but they are "manly" traits to me. A man should know basic home repairs.....and a man who doesn't loses value in my eyes.


Okay, I have to take issue with this way of thinking.  I'm not saying that it's "wrong".  After all, you are entitled to desire any traits you desire in a potential partner.

My problems is with the very stereotypical things that you call "manly traits".  Personally, I can't repair a car.  I can change a flat tire and a battery, but that's about it.  If the car won't start, I call AAA.  Similarly, I can do a few very minor repairs around the house.  For example, if I flip the switch and the lights don't come on, I change the light bulb.  But if that doesn't work, I'm calling an electrician.  If I come home and find that the toilet is leaking, I'm calling a plumber.

I'm definitely white collar.  I can't do many of the blue collar chores that you outline.  But I can afford to pay someone to come to my house and fix the roof.  I don't have to climb a ladder and apply new roofing by hand.  Nor do I want to.

I don't feel that I'm any less "manly" because I pay others to do much of the manual labor around the house. Besides, is it better to have a man who CAN fix things but has a "honey do" list as long as his arm, or a man who CAN'T fix things, but who makes sure that they get fixed the moment a problem arises?  I'm in the latter camp, and I don't feel any less manly for being so.

I know this is a digression from the topic of this thread, but I had to comment on your statement.

End of digression.


I agree...! The real "manly traits" are with those who get paid squillions to kick back in an air-conditioned tower block shuffling papers. They're the pioneers who dragged us out of the stone-age and brought about the industrial revolution and would doubtless take the premium seats on a survival ship to Mars once this planet implodes.

I think this is also how the great companies and corporations of the world began. That someone somewhere had the foresight to open an office so a business/service/invention could instinctively gravitate to it and thus flourish.....

I am confused about a few things, though. Since your them is "manly traits", why is it that the ladies can't equally do all the hiring you've described? And who do you call to repair or modify your bdsm toys?

Focus.



kalikshama -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 2:11:15 PM)

quote:

See, who needs that crap?  Not only do I pay to have "manly" chores taken care of, but I also pay a maid service to do the "womanly" chores.  So any woman that I'm in a relationship with doesn't have to spend hours doing laundry and mopping floors.  IMO, that time is better spent doing leisure activities as a couple. Frankly, spending weekends doing chores around the house sucks!  I'd rather play golf, or spend the weekend on my boat.


Are you sure I can't persuade you to pick up the whip? Try it, you might like it!



VaguelyCurious -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 2:23:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Are you sure I can't persuade you to pick up the whip? Try it, you might like it!

Ahem. The queue for a piece of this man is long enough without you giving him ideas.

[8D]



PetiteOralSub -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 2:41:20 PM)

It's about accepting responsibility for the care, love and feeding of your mate, family and home,
whether you do it, or arrange to have it taken care of; being a Man, being competent and taking charge.
My ex husband was capable of many "manly" things, but was too irresponsible and self-centered to contribute any effort whatsoever to our home life.
I handled all of the responsibility and drudgery; he surfed porn, beat off, watched the tube, beat off, played games, beat off, that was his entire life away from work. And I worked more hours outside fo the home as well, he had no excuse except that he was worthless as a man.
{Oh and criticized me constantly for never having any time to give him blow jobs and fuck his worthless ass.]}

By the end of our marriage, I started thinging of him as 'bitch', actually saw him as a woman in my mind eye.

Needless to say, I had no respect for him.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 3:40:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
it's better not to have a honey-do list at all, but just...fix stuff when it breaks, whoever notices it first. If I lived with someone who called an electrician every time a fuse needed changing or a plumber every time there was a sink blockage I'd be creeped out


Well I did say that I can do minor repairs.  Anybody can change a fuse or pour some Drano down a sink.  I was talking about REAL repairs.  I can't do those.

As a case in point, I was once engaged to a woman whose father had added 3 rooms to their house by hand.  He did all of the carpentry, brick work, plumbing, and electrical work himself.  He also fixed cars, and repaired any appliances that broke around the house. So when her car broke down on the road one time, she called me to come fix it.  Well, I came and picked her up and had had a tow truck take her car to a mechanic.  That turned into a big fight, because in her mind, a man is supposed to be able to fix cars. She wanted me to be her big strong hero and fix the car myself.

Our different perspectives on what men should do was a constant point of contention for us.  She couldn't understand why I couldn't build an addition to the house like her dad had done.  I couldn't understand why she wasn't content with what I could do.  I had an engineering degree, and an MBA from a top school.  I was an executive at a large company, and I took her on overseas vacations several times per year. I wanted her to be proud of what I had achieved, and the lifestyle that I provided for her.  Instead, she beat me up for paying contractors to build a deck in our back yard rather than building it myself like her dad would have done.

So as you might guess, this issue struck a sensitive nerve for me.



kalikshama -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 3:55:28 PM)

quote:

By the end of our marriage, I started thinging of him as 'bitch', actually saw him as a woman in my mind eye.


I'm glad I don't have your eyes.



VaguelyCurious -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 4:09:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

Anybody can change a fuse or pour some Drano down a sink.

You'd be surprised. Although on the sink front, I was talking about more serious blockages. I know people who've flooded kitchens trying to remove u-bends, and I might be a tiny little bit over-proud of my capabilities in that area.

quote:


So as you might guess, this issue struck a sensitive nerve for me.

I'm sorry to hear that. Even as someone who only knows you through internet posting I know you've got immense value in all sorts of ways, and I'm sorry she didn't recognise that.

<ed for stupid, stupid stupid quote box thingies>



BonesFromAsh -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 4:56:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

I know this is a digression from the topic of this thread, but I had to comment on your statement.



Actually, I don't think it does digress and as the OP of this thread I say it's okay. [;)]


I realize that this topic is, in reality, just another "personal preference" sort of thing. "Chess-boy", from my original post, was just as correct about his brand of intelligence (out-smarting/out-manueuvering) as I am about mine (I have no interest in needing to continually one-up my partner just to prove my "dominant" intelligence).He, obviously, has different needs.

I've been involved with men who were far and above superior to me academically...and I was frustrated to no end with them because they couldn't seem to perform "simple" everyday tasks or think outside the box enough to move forward. It reminds me of a young man I knew who used to laugh when the women he met were impressed with his intellect and Ph. D...his reply was "Yeah, it get's me laid often enough, but we'll see what happens when I actually have to do something with it."

Intelligence, in my opinion, is measured in many ways.

Funny thing, I took a variation of this question to work with me last night and the answers weren't all that different than what I got here. One of my co-workers laughed and said "Hell, I'd be impressed if one of our commanding officers knew anything about chess. Who cares who won."



LadyPact -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 5:12:14 PM)

Sorry, Bones.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
As chauvenistic as it is, there are certain things men need to be able to do for me to like them. I can't stand when men can't drive a stick shift or be able to fix things. No measure of intelligence of course, but they are "manly" traits to me. A man should know basic home repairs.....and a man who doesn't loses value in my eyes.

This is completely off topic, but at My age, I'm still of the mind that everybody should know how to drive a stick shift.  It will pay off if you are ever in an emergency and that's the only vehicle you have access to. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
Okay, I have to take issue with this way of thinking.  I'm not saying that it's "wrong".  After all, you are entitled to desire any traits you desire in a potential partner.

My problems is with the very stereotypical things that you call "manly traits".  Personally, I can't repair a car.  I can change a flat tire and a battery, but that's about it.  If the car won't start, I call AAA.  Similarly, I can do a few very minor repairs around the house.  For example, if I flip the switch and the lights don't come on, I change the light bulb.  But if that doesn't work, I'm calling an electrician.  If I come home and find that the toilet is leaking, I'm calling a plumber.

I'm definitely white collar.  I can't do many of the blue collar chores that you outline.  But I can afford to pay someone to come to my house and fix the roof.  I don't have to climb a ladder and apply new roofing by hand.  Nor do I want to.

I don't feel that I'm any less "manly" because I pay others to do much of the manual labor around the house. Besides, is it better to have a man who CAN fix things but has a "honey do" list as long as his arm, or a man who CAN'T fix things, but who makes sure that they get fixed the moment a problem arises?  I'm in the latter camp, and I don't feel any less manly for being so.

I know this is a digression from the topic of this thread, but I had to comment on your statement.

End of digression.


Not quite the end.  [8D]

I've said something similar to the above for years.  I don't honestly care if a man can cook.  However, he'd better know how to order a mean take out.  The bottom line is that you're tired and you want to eat, right?  So, you make it happen.

That's not to say that I don't want certain things done a certain way in My house.  Great!  Instruct the repair guy to do exactly that when he gets there. 



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 7:53:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
I know this is a digression from the topic of this thread, but I had to comment on your statement.


Actually, I don't think it does digress and as the OP of this thread I say it's okay.

I realize that this topic is, in reality, just another "personal preference" sort of thing.



Thanks BoneFromAsh.  Now that you mention it, it actually didn't turn out to be a digression.  It was just another example of the same theme. 

Different people define intellect and competence differently.  In your example, the chess player defined skill at chess as a measure of competence and intellect.  In my example, my ex defined being able to fix things as her measure of competence.  In both examples, there was no right or wrong answer.  It was merely "personal preference", as you stated.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 8:03:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

That's not to say that I don't want certain things done a certain way in My house.  Great!  Instruct the repair guy to do exactly that when he gets there. 



See, that's what I mean.  As long as it gets done properly, who really cares whose hands do the work?  Frankly, by having someone else do it, it frees up more play time.  [;)]




Focus50 -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 9:16:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
it's better not to have a honey-do list at all, but just...fix stuff when it breaks, whoever notices it first. If I lived with someone who called an electrician every time a fuse needed changing or a plumber every time there was a sink blockage I'd be creeped out


Well I did say that I can do minor repairs.  Anybody can change a fuse or pour some Drano down a sink.  I was talking about REAL repairs.  I can't do those.

As a case in point, I was once engaged to a woman whose father had added 3 rooms to their house by hand.  He did all of the carpentry, brick work, plumbing, and electrical work himself.  He also fixed cars, and repaired any appliances that broke around the house. So when her car broke down on the road one time, she called me to come fix it.  Well, I came and picked her up and had had a tow truck take her car to a mechanic.  That turned into a big fight, because in her mind, a man is supposed to be able to fix cars. She wanted me to be her big strong hero and fix the car myself.

Our different perspectives on what men should do was a constant point of contention for us.  She couldn't understand why I couldn't build an addition to the house like her dad had done.  I couldn't understand why she wasn't content with what I could do.  I had an engineering degree, and an MBA from a top school.  I was an executive at a large company, and I took her on overseas vacations several times per year. I wanted her to be proud of what I had achieved, and the lifestyle that I provided for her.  Instead, she beat me up for paying contractors to build a deck in our back yard rather than building it myself like her dad would have done.

So as you might guess, this issue struck a sensitive nerve for me.


If you're ex-fiance couldn't accept you for being you, then I'd say good riddance; that you were incompatible.... And geeeezus, it's not like you weren't a good provider - another oldstyle "manly trait".

But you still did LafayetteLady's post a certain injustice. That she's right, there are home chores
better suited to individual genders. Me, I stay out of the kitchen and the girl won't be climbing ladders, doing heavy lifting, crawling under a car or in a crawl-space or even mowing the lawn. I do any building and most of the painting etc, too.

In short and in my relationships in general, I mostly look after the house/yard while she looks after the home. Back in the emasculating 90's, men were always copping flak for not helping out in the house - cleaning, washing dishes etc. The popular stereotype was that we just lobbed home from the office (the only respectable form of work, apparently), grabbed a beer and sat on the couch waiting for our meals to be served. Riiiiiiight....

Focus.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/18/2011 5:50:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
If you're ex-fiance couldn't accept you for being you, then I'd say good riddance; that you were incompatible....


And that's exactly what I did.  I finally accepted that we were incompatible, and said good riddance.   [:D]



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