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Value of submission - 4/18/2011 5:07:19 PM   
Asherscorp1


Posts: 143
Joined: 3/6/2011
Status: offline 		This question was inspired from my last post actually. I wanted to know from both a Dom and a sub's viewpoint do you think that a person who has to work harder to be subservient is more valued? Subs do you ever feel that obedience or subservience comes so easily that it's not truly appreciated? Doms do you ever get bored with a sub that is extremely submissive and accomodating and doesn't need to be "whipped into shape" as it were?

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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 5:11:27 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		I'm valued by him because I fulfill his needs and because doing so is a pleasure, not a struggle for me.

My ex owner felt the harder I pushed to do (whatever it was) for him, the more value that submission had. So he would invent things that would challenge the hell out of me, and be really happy when I did it.

It was an exhausting way to live.




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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 6:09:21 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		No, I don't think that a person who has to 'work harder' to submit is worth more.  While I can appreciate that someone might struggle with one area of obedience or another, it's still what I expect. 

I don't really have a desire to have to "whip someone into shape".  That's like saying, "are you bored in your life if there isn't some kind of drama?"  I want My household running as smoothly as possible.  That means (here it comes again) I want obedience.


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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 6:13:15 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		What LadyPact said!

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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 6:18:24 PM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherscorp1

This question was inspired from my last post actually. I wanted to know from both a Dom and a sub's viewpoint do you think that a person who has to work harder to be subservient is more valued? Subs do you ever feel that obedience or subservience comes so easily that it's not truly appreciated? Doms do you ever get bored with a sub that is extremely submissive and accomodating and doesn't need to be "whipped into shape" as it were?


I'm odd in that I don't analyze my relationships. I keep it simple....if at the end of the day, we both have smiles on our faces, then we did good.
I have never once thought to myself...hmmmmm, maybe he'll like and appreciate me more if I struggled with this.
He tells me what to do, along with the things that I know are expected and I do them. It really is that simple.
I find happiness in knowing that I'm making him happy and he finds happiness knowing that I've done what he requires.
To get caught up in the motivations seems pointless if we're both happy.

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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 6:28:03 PM   
NocturnalStalker


Posts: 3858
Joined: 12/4/2010
Status: offline 		You will bow down or you will die.

I'm not very successful in the long-term as you can see.


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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 6:43:33 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		I would never consider enslaving someone for whom it was a struggle. To me that's got "square peg, round hole" written all over it. I know that other people groove on the whole "breaking" deal but that's not me. So I guess to me the answer is "less valued as a submissive" which says nothing about how I'd see them as a person and/or a life-partner overall.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 6:49:00 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

To get caught up in the motivations seems pointless if we're both happy.


QFT


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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 7:30:24 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

do you think that a person who has to work harder to be subservient is more valued?

No
quote:

Subs do you ever feel that obedience or subservience comes so easily that it's not truly appreciated?

No


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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 7:47:04 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		This question was inspired from my last post actually.


Leave your inspiration at work ...cuz yer not making a whole lotta sense! Who's to say who works harder as its subjective? Not sure what that has to do with anything.

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 4/18/2011 7:49:18 PM >

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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 7:59:13 PM   
berlinpet


Posts: 1
Joined: 4/10/2011
Status: offline 		ok two cents from a newbie to the scene and the site: one of the most powerful things I have heard said is that all the power a Dom has to come from the consent or the one who submits to him. Thus to hold back your consent or to struggle reduces the power of your dom. My joy and happiness comes from letting go and submitting to his will, I can only do that if I trust his will is in my best interest and respect him so his power makes me better, stronger - it is the ultimate power exchange, nothing is gained or lost if it is freely handed over. To quote the late Liz Taylor - there is "a tranquility in proud subordination to somebody else".

< Message edited by berlinpet -- 4/18/2011 8:01:16 PM >

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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 8:29:49 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		First, I'm not subservient. I'm not less than him, simply different.

Some dominants get off on the sub struggling, others don't. Pick the one who matches you.

My value to him comes in my love and affection, appreciation and respect, in the enormous compatibility between us.


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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 9:00:07 PM   
aromanholiday


Posts: 307
Joined: 4/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

Subs do you ever feel that obedience or subservience comes so easily that it's not truly appreciated


I think you ask cool questions, Asherscrop1. Don't stop--unless you're ordered to, of course.

As for the above, my answer is no, probably because what you describe, at least in my past, has not exactly been the lucky state of affairs. (I mean the "comes so easily" part--rueful smile) On the bright side, I learn a tremendous deal from my mistakes. I have some rather "dramatic" ways of searing them into my brain so that I don't fuck up next time--assuming I am lucky enough to have a next time.

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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 9:02:51 PM   
Palliata


Posts: 371
Joined: 8/9/2010
Status: offline 		For me, 24/7 and service are different from sex. I quite enjoy resistance and a near-combative dynamic in sexual situations. That said, in day to day service life I despise it. Complete submission without the need for conflict exists firmly within my happy place, which means that submission with a minimum of "breaking" makes it more valuable (for some value of... well, valuable). I don't expect anyone to show up 100% perfectly submissive, because a dynamic has to develop, but less is more when it comes to active conflict between my desires and hers.

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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 9:49:25 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherscorp1

This question was inspired from my last post actually. I wanted to know from both a Dom and a sub's viewpoint do you think that a person who has to work harder to be subservient is more valued?


Greetings,

i think that's very subjective and it depends on the audience and what you're addressing in the scope of 'working hard' and the results of movement from point a to point b. i think most appreciate a concerted effort and a sincere desire to yield according the precepts and preferences the dominant has imposed.

quote:

Subs do you ever feel that obedience or subservience comes so easily that it's not truly appreciated?


No, and i've openly admitted that i don't believe most are naturally so by default. Our societal conditioning plays a huge part on how these things are processed and eventually broached (by some) when entering relationships of this nature. i do find that those who possess a strong sense of duty that has been instilled have an easier time adapting or making the transition if you will. Whether it's appreciated is dependent on the beneficiary. If you align yourself with someone that prefers a combative way of relating you'll probably be on the receiving end of some unpleasant experiences. As such, ones manner of submitting should ideally be paired with its complementary dominant energy. It causes far less grief for both parties when this takes place.

quote:

Doms do you ever get bored with a sub that is extremely submissive and accommodating and doesn't need to be "whipped into shape" as it were?


i've conversed with men that have an affinity for willful girls or the proverbial mustang. The really interesting caveat is the maintenance and the likelihood of laziness ensuing when it isn't reinforced on a continual basis. The idea of breaking needn't include the components mentioned, but can be positively applied if both desire it. i place a great primacy on being obedient and literally doing what my presence suggests upon acceptance - yielding. That doesn't imply that it should be a rough and tumble event that leaves him tuckered out to extract one utterance of obedience or at the very least, a compliant nod. Men that find this kind of push and pull highly erotic are best paired with those who seek a hard driving commander that will keep them in line. my partners never found the behavior of appeal and repeatedly felt it was conduct unbecoming in all instances.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


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RE: Value of submission - 4/18/2011 10:21:54 PM   
avena


Posts: 80
Joined: 12/4/2010
Status: offline 		I think that value is dependant on the people involved, so no, I don't think a submissive who struggles more with submission is generally more valued than someone who doesn't struggle.

Nor do I think that my submission to D is ever not appreciated. In fact, it is precisely because he does appreciate it, and me, that makes it easier for me to submit to him. I know that he sees the times that I struggle...and overcome...or fail...because he acknowledges the success, or the effort despite the failure. And that makes me want even more to do what it takes to please him. I can look back in the past four or five months and see things that I once struggled with, and now they are as natural to me as breathing.

So in a way, I'm valued because I struggle with some things, and I'm valued because, at some point, those things are no longer a struggle. Does that make me twice as valuable? Maybe I should ask for something expensive for my birthday this year...like...new shoes!!


So back on topic...

Back in the days of uncertainty about this whole D/s relationship thing I was pursuing with D...or he was pursuing with me...depending on your point of view... A very wise old dominant friend of mine shared a few words of wisdom (very appropriate, considering he's a wise old man...don't tell him I said that!). He told me:

"You are valuable, because you are YOU!"


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RE: Value of submission - 4/19/2011 3:11:31 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Do you think that a person who has to work harder to be subservient is more valued?

It might well be by some.

Subs do you ever feel that obedience or subservience comes so easily that it's not truly appreciated?

I don't even think about whether it appreciated or not, it goes with the territory. It's not at ALL important that it's appreciated....I asked for the job therefore I can either manage to fulfill the criteria or, if I don't want to, I can choose another job/position/relationship style.

If I can manage it with ease, that's great, I see no need for appreciation.......... it's expected that I get on with the job. If I struggle (as Lady Pact put it) with bits of it now and then.......well, that's fine too. Neither needs any particular appreciation, in my opinion.

I'm well appreciated as a person....not whether submissiveness comes easily to me or not. That's irrelevant.

agirl






















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RE: Value of submission - 4/19/2011 3:34:49 AM   
PetiteOralSub


Posts: 81
Joined: 5/21/2010
Status: offline 		It's all relative, of course, to the two psyches on either side of the whip.

My experience has primarily been with Dominants over 40, who like vanilla men over 40, may appreciate the visually the body of a 20 year old, but really dont want to deal with the drama and the overhead of having to teach them EVERYTHING, about life, love, and sex.
Some Doms may like brats, some dont, depends on the Dom and where He is in His life too.

I have found that easy or not, my efforts are appreciated. If they weren't, guess what? I'm not hanging around, too many fish in the sea to spend anytime with one who is not good to me, for me.

The common theme also seems to be that Dominants of experience know when they are getting your best effort, and that is what matters to the realistic and sane ones.

I fret sometimes about the few hard limits I have yet to overcome, but remind myself that if I give 100% everytime, even if I fail the first few times to overcome, He will not be displeased, and just let it go, my concern is to obey -- period.



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respectfully

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RE: Value of submission - 4/19/2011 5:13:41 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PetiteOralSub

It's all relative, of course, to the two psyches on either side of the whip.

My experience has primarily been with Dominants over 40, who like vanilla men over 40, may appreciate the visually the body of a 20 year old, but really dont want to deal with the drama and the overhead of having to teach them EVERYTHING, about life, love, and sex.
Some Doms may like brats, some dont, depends on the Dom and where He is in His life too.

I have found that easy or not, my efforts are appreciated. If they weren't, guess what? I'm not hanging around, too many fish in the sea to spend anytime with one who is not good to me, for me.

The common theme also seems to be that Dominants of experience know when they are getting your best effort, and that is what matters to the realistic and sane ones.

I fret sometimes about the few hard limits I have yet to overcome, but remind myself that if I give 100% everytime, even if I fail the first few times to overcome, He will not be displeased, and just let it go, my concern is to obey -- period.




Of course it's relative. I'm not driven to give 100% all of the time, whether it's required or not. That's me. Either way, if he wants more effort , he'll be clear on it, and he'll get it, by hook or by crook. It doesn't bother him unduly, and it doesn't bother me unduly, either.

I would say that any real effort in ANY area is *recognised*, 'though it's not necessarily in relation to him.

Getting on with it, and doing what I said I'd do, really doesn't require appreciation, anymore than it would me spending time *appreciating* for him doing the job I asked him to. BOTH of us entered this and we both do as good a job as we are able.

If anything, I should be the more appreciative because he doesn't *need* me at all. I am the one that wanted and asked for this and while he's not doing me a favour and while he enjoys owning me, it's certainly not remotely a need of his.

agirl








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RE: Value of submission - 4/19/2011 5:33:24 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherscorp1

Subs do you ever feel that obedience or subservience comes so easily that it's not truly appreciated?


yes that happens sometimes... i then start feeling taken for granted and much like a piece of the furniture... if He remains in His uncaring mood for long i start to get resentful and obnoctious... or i might seduce Him, it depends on what action is needed to prod Him back into shape

quote:

Doms do you ever get bored with a sub that is extremely submissive and accomodating and doesn't need to be "whipped into shape" as it were?


yes He does get bored; He needs some resistance and i presume that is one of the reasons why He occasionally ignores me... He likes to see the fire in me to get His attention and He likes to 'whip me into shape'

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