RE: Evolution vs. Religion (Full Version)

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Kirata -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 11:42:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Not really...

When someone says they don't believe in a "God," and are flatly informed that they do, then yes, it is really. [:D]

K.




Kirata -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 11:44:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

To my eye, saying "I don't believe in God" when the person does in fact believe in a divine higher power is misleading. Perhaps if the statement had been "I don't believe in a specific God".

By what rule must a higher power be a "God"?

K.




Arpig -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 11:52:20 PM)

Because they are one and the same.




Kirata -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 11:54:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Because they are one and the same.

Your new avatar really fits. [:D]

K.




rulemylife -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 11:55:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

I don't believe that the evidence exists to justify either a belief in a deity or a belief that there is no deity.



Wouldn't the absence of proof negate the need to prove anything else?




tazzygirl -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 11:56:32 PM)

LOL... this is why native americans dont argue about religion. People want to pigeon hole it into the meaning they believe it means, not what it really is... and frankly, we could care less what they believe.




Ishtarr -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 11:56:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Because they are one and the same.


Not really, because "God" implies "deity" and a "deity" is necessarily a "being".

"Higher Power" or "Nature" worship and such doesn't necessarily mean a belief in a "being" and often even excludes it, therefor excluding "deity" and thus "God".

Ishtar




Arpig -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 11:57:38 PM)

quote:

Your new avatar really fits.
LOL! I think so.




Arpig -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/21/2011 12:03:21 AM)

quote:

Not really, because "God" implies "deity" and a "deity" is necessarily a "being".
Perhaps to you, but not to me. I am approaching the question from the position of someone who is undecided as to the existence of divinity in any form, thus to me all the various different intereprtations and possibilities are just flavours.

I suspect that if I believed in any given variety of divinity, then I would see a real difference between them. But as I don't, I don't.




tazzygirl -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/21/2011 12:15:17 AM)

Huh. I dont recall using the word devine or devinity...




HannahLynHeather -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/21/2011 12:20:14 AM)

quote:

Huh. I dont recall using the word devine or devinity...
missed the point again did ya?

hannah lynn




Ishtarr -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/21/2011 12:25:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

To my eye, saying "I don't believe in God" when the person does in fact believe in a divine higher power is misleading. Perhaps if the statement had been "I don't believe in a specific God".

By what rule must a higher power be a "God"?

K.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Because they are one and the same.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Not really, because "God" implies "deity" and a "deity" is necessarily a "being".
Perhaps to you, but not to me. I am approaching the question from the position of someone who is undecided as to the existence of divinity in any form, thus to me all the various different intereprtations and possibilities are just flavours.

I suspect that if I believed in any given variety of divinity, then I would see a real difference between them. But as I don't, I don't.


If you're approaching the word "God" from a purely subjective instead of a semantical perspective, you'd do well to explain that when you say that that "God" and "Higher Power" are one and the same that you're making a subjective statement that is not based in any actual rules or commonly used definitions. Else your statement might be taken as semantical trickery...

Ishtar




Kirata -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/21/2011 12:29:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Huh. I dont recall using the word devine or devinity...

You didn't. The definition of a higher power as a "God" is on page 23 in the Word of Arpig.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I do not believe in God. I do believe in a higher power...


K.




tazzygirl -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/21/2011 12:31:11 AM)

The force of nature is a powerful force. To deny its higher than we are would be a lie.




Kirata -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/21/2011 12:42:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The force of nature is a powerful force. To deny its higher than we are would be a lie.

Well true, though I don't know if I'd call nature a "higher" power. I do, however, suspect that human beings have capabilities beyond those we normally recognize and can consciously control, the functioning of which would be, and be experienced as, the operation of a "higher power".

K.




tazzygirl -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/21/2011 12:44:08 AM)

Humans are a part of that nature. The whole will always be stronger than any part.




Kirata -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/21/2011 12:47:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Humans are a part of that nature. The whole will always be stronger than any part.

Okay, I'll play...

The part, when it acts in harmony with the whole, has the strength of the whole.

K.




tazzygirl -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/21/2011 12:54:38 AM)

Now you are getting it... I think... lol. It keeps nature in balance. There is no "sky man" keeping things in balance. Look at the hurricanes and earth quakes. No "being" protecting anyone.

We can stand in awe of nature. Many times I watched the hurricanes roll in... and absolutely loved every moment. There is no need to regard nature as a father, as the abrahamic religions view their "god". We are simply thankful nature supports us. We have no belief it rewards or punishes us. The universe doesnt hate or love us. We just "are".




tweakabelle -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/21/2011 12:55:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

I don't believe that the evidence exists to justify either a belief in a deity or a belief that there is no deity.



Wouldn't the absence of proof negate the need to prove anything else?


Generally yes. Those asserting a proposition need to prove it or the proposition fails.

In this instance, the proposition that a deity exists fails, IMHO, due to lack of evidence. However there a number of views of what atheism is that cloud the issue.

Some people take atheism to be an absence of belief in deities, while others take atheism to be a belief that there are no deities, that the existence of a deity is impossible.

The first interpretation of atheism is, IMHO, incorrect. This position is better described as agnostic. It includes the "I don't knows" and the "I think it's un-knowables". Here absence of proof of a deity negates the need to prove anything else. But the possibility of deities existing is left open.

The second, stronger (and IMHO, more accurate) interpretation, that atheism asserts that there are no deities, the existence of deities is impossible does require proof IMHO. Specifically, it requires proof that the possibility of deities existing can be eliminated.

I hope I have made the distinction clear.




Arpig -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/21/2011 12:58:18 AM)

quote:

You didn't. The definition of a higher power as a "God" is on page 23 in the Word of Arpig.
You know Kirata, your derision would perhaps be a bit bothersome if you could be taken seriously, but since you base your life philosophy on a series of really badly written fantasy novels that just isn't the case.





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