RE: How could I have handled this better?

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Rochsub2009 -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/21/2011 8:44:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact While I probably wouldn't have pushed the OP to the extent that it seems. I'm not going to say that every person I have dealt with said no and eventually said yes. I guess I come out somewhere between the OP and LadyPact on this one. There are many things that were once limits for me, that I now enjoy. And I'm grateful to those who pushed me to expand my boundaries. However, there can be times when two individuals are simply mismatched. For example, if sucking another guy's cock is a hard limit for the male sub, and seeing Her sub suck another guy's cock is a "must have" for the Domme, then conflict is inevitable. These two individuals are a mismatched pair. I can understand her pushing the issue a little. But she could have done it more gradually. For example, she could have started by first having you suck her strap-on. Then move to situations where you and another male both worship her together (but you don't touch one another) so that you get used to being in sexual situations with another naked male. And finally, she might have gently invited the two of you to touch one another, and let you both know how much it would please her to see that. But if there was any reluctance/resistance by either of you, she should pull back and not forced the issue. Homosexuality is a hard limit for many subs, particularly males. Pushing that limit must typically be done slowly, gently, and wisely. Sounds to me like her method was neither, slow, gentle, nor wise. [;)]

Lucylastic -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/21/2011 9:13:25 AM)
Hey Chatte:) Im sorry if you thought that I meant your response, it was a general response, I have teased my pet with things that are outside his limits, I have stretched some boundaries, but while the mind fuck and the teasing can help it can also hinder stretching of his limits, most of his limits are health related, and I dont want to break him, or lose him because Im impatient or so selfish as to not notice his "cues" I do delight in being evil to my pet, and have him not knowing what is going to happen next when he sees that gleam in my eye, but he knows deep inside that his trust will never be betrayed.Thats more important to me than anything. Ialso realise my way is not the only way and I enjoy the differences in domination styles that Ive seen and read..Some Ive borrowed, some Ive discarded, but my philosphy is handle with care and respect.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/21/2011 9:29:54 AM)
Oh not a problem at all. I wanted to make very clear I would never advocate that kind of testing. As for taking care, my boy is in his early 60s, so I can relate.

Hisprettybaby -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/21/2011 10:10:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JBondage She made the following arguments to convince me: It was her responsibility as my Domme to push my limits so I could grow and become what she wanted me to be. It was my responsibility to make her happy and this would give her much pleasure. My refusal to do this reflected poorly on her and I should think more about her pleasure then my limits. I should never have agreed to this but at the time saw no other way as I did truly want to make her happy. She grew more distant the more I refused so I felt that I would lose her If I did not do as she asked. So should I have stood my guns and continued to say no? There are soft limits and there are hard limits. I know my hard limits aren't going anywhere and my soft limits can and should be pushed. Sucking another man's cock was a HARD limit of yours. She had no business pushing it. Soft limits are another thing altogether. My feeling is, if she knew your hard limits going in and she knew she would not be happy respecting them, she should never have gotten into the relationship with you. Since she did, she should have respected them. She wasn't trying to help you expand and push your limits, she guilt-tripped you into it. I think you should have stuck to your guns and continued to say no, but that's just me. ~Hisprettybaby~

LadyPact -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/21/2011 11:35:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious For sure. But tell me something, Lady P: when they were saying no did you deliberately withdraw affection from them? I can't imagine you doing that. It's not so much what she was asking him to do that's the issue here, it's how she did it. I had a feeling that I was going to phrase that poorly. That's what happens when I attempt to respond to threads in the middle of the night. [:)] You're completely correct that I wouldn't withdraw affection. That's a piss poor way of doing things in any relationship. The term "emotional blackmail" suits very well when folks do that. Not My style at all. Roch did a pretty good job of one way to address this area. I do have a little issue with the strap on sucking bit. Yes, a very good method of introduction, but at the same time, I'd probably have a hang up with anybody who couldn't deal with an inanimate object. If it comes to that, I'd better be familiar with some kind of trauma or form of abuse from a person's past if they can't handle that. Better bring something better to the table than "it looks like a dick" and they can't deal with it because of homophobia. Getting past a hard limit of any kind, has everything to do with knowing the person you are dealing with and why it's a hard limit in the first place. Some should never be brought up and others you can work on. The latter might take years. My own experiences in the matter are exactly why I sit on My side of the screen and see just how foolish some people are when they think all sub males secretly want to do this. They don't. Some never will. Others, it can be a long process. I have a feeling that, in the OP's case, it wasn't just how she did it, but also that she was attempting to do it too quickly. Impatience when working with any limit doesn't turn out well.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/21/2011 11:56:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious For sure. But tell me something, Lady P: when they were saying no did you deliberately withdraw affection from them? I can't imagine you doing that. It's not so much what she was asking him to do that's the issue here, it's how she did it. I had a feeling that I was going to phrase that poorly. That's what happens when I attempt to respond to threads in the middle of the night. [:)] You're completely correct that I wouldn't withdraw affection. That's a piss poor way of doing things in any relationship. The term "emotional blackmail" suits very well when folks do that. Not My style at all. Roch did a pretty good job of one way to address this area. I do have a little issue with the strap on sucking bit. Yes, a very good method of introduction, but at the same time, I'd probably have a hang up with anybody who couldn't deal with an inanimate object. If it comes to that, I'd better be familiar with some kind of trauma or form of abuse from a person's past if they can't handle that. Better bring something better to the table than "it looks like a dick" and they can't deal with it because of homophobia. Getting past a hard limit of any kind, has everything to do with knowing the person you are dealing with and why it's a hard limit in the first place. Some should never be brought up and others you can work on. The latter might take years. My own experiences in the matter are exactly why I sit on My side of the screen and see just how foolish some people are when they think all sub males secretly want to do this. They don't. Some never will. Others, it can be a long process. I have a feeling that, in the OP's case, it wasn't just how she did it, but also that she was attempting to do it too quickly. Impatience when working with any limit doesn't turn out well. I could not possibly agree more.

Rochsub2009 -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/21/2011 1:00:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Roch did a pretty good job of one way to address this area. I do have a little issue with the strap on sucking bit. Yes, a very good method of introduction, but at the same time, I'd probably have a hang up with anybody who couldn't deal with an inanimate object. I actually think that sucking strap-on is a pretty easy first step for most guys. I wouldn't expect you to get much resistance to it. But the second step that I mentioned of having him service you with another naked male sub can be difficult at first. I know that it was for me. I just felt weird being that close to another naked man during a sexual situation. I know that this is going to sound silly, but I found that I couldn't look at him. As long as I kept my eyes on her, I was okay, but looking at him felt weird. As I've shared in another thread, I now enjoy mmmF situations (mfmm in your terminology), and I no longer even flinch when another male touches me during those situations. But I have to admit that it took me a while to get to that place (not flinching). I still am not at the point where I would suck another man's cock. But for the right Domme, it probably wouldn't be a complete impossibility. So I guess that over time, my hard limit has become a semi-rigid limit. [;)]

LadyPact -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/21/2011 1:45:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 I actually think that sucking strap-on is a pretty easy first step for most guys. I wouldn't expect you to get much resistance to it. But the second step that I mentioned of having him service you with another naked male sub can be difficult at first. I know that it was for me. I just felt weird being that close to another naked man during a sexual situation. I know that this is going to sound silly, but I found that I couldn't look at him. As long as I kept my eyes on her, I was okay, but looking at him felt weird. As I've shared in another thread, I now enjoy mmmF situations (mfmm in your terminology), and I no longer even flinch when another male touches me during those situations. But I have to admit that it took me a while to get to that place (not flinching). I still am not at the point where I would suck another man's cock. But for the right Domme, it probably wouldn't be a complete impossibility. So I guess that over time, my hard limit has become a semi-rigid limit. [;)] Oh, you just made Me so happy! (Shuddup! We Dommes have fantasies, too.) Some males have a harder transition to this than others. If you don't mind, I'm going to speak from the threesome experience, as that is where My proficiency lies. (Foursomes, not so much My thing.) For the moment, let's skip areas like cuckholds, fluffers, ect. Just your basic mfm. Most males can do this, if they are comfortable in the 'territory'. Almost like splitting the woman in half. One male works the lower region and the other works the top. He does the nipple work, the caressing of the neck, the kissing of the mouth when she is in the throws of orgasm. This is voyeurism at it's best. Inches away from a woman who is having a great orgasm and at the same time, not being distracted by providing the stimulus to create that orgasm. In a way, the 'top man' gets a unique experience. He watches every heave of the chest, the crook of the neck, the hungry mouth longing for the kiss. The perspective is completely different and it is completely beautiful. Most males, if they see a woman in that state, they are willing to stretch a bit more. It is amazing what some males will do, given the proper circumstances.

Rochsub2009 -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/21/2011 2:08:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Most males can do this, if they are comfortable in the 'territory'. Almost like splitting the woman in half. One male works the lower region and the other works the top. He does the nipple work, the caressing of the neck, the kissing of the mouth when she is in the throws of orgasm. This is voyeurism at it's best. Inches away from a woman who is having a great orgasm and at the same time, not being distracted by providing the stimulus to create that orgasm. In a way, the 'top man' gets a unique experience. He watches every heave of the chest, the crook of the neck, the hungry mouth longing for the kiss. The perspective is completely different and it is completely beautiful. Most males, if they see a woman in that state, they are willing to stretch a bit more. It is amazing what some males will do, given the proper circumstances. I agree. And what you described is the easiest part of the adjustment. I agree that splitting her in half and each working your own half is both hot and voyeuristic. What becomes more difficult is when both men are in the same "region". So instead of splitting the woman in half, both guys are working on the same half (e.g. anal and vaginal sex simultaneously, or intercourse and clit licking simultaneosly). In those situations, it's hard to avoid lots of male-on-male touching. That's when I tended to flinch. Being touched by another naked man in a sexual situation can take some getting used to (at least it did for me). I know that may sound silly, but I'm just sharing the adjustment that I went through. But with time and patience by the Domme, I fought through that uneasiness. And now, I can do threesomes and foursomes without even thinking about it. In fact, those are now some of my favorite scenes. Note: I apologize if this digression. I know that the current conversation is a bit of a threadjack. However, I know that there are lots of people who perv these boards but never post. So there may be another male sub who has similar reluctance to be that physically close to another naked male. That's why I think it's important for me to share how I overcame that hurdle and became comfortable with it.

Rochsub2009 -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/21/2011 2:11:22 PM)
BTW, thanks for sharing, Lady Pact. One of the things that has often frustrated me about the message boards on CM is that we seldom share our personal experiences. Everyone seems to be so reluctant about providing wank material, that we never share details about what we actually do and enjoy. So this exchange has been appreciated.

DommeyProfile -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/21/2011 3:35:16 PM)
Yes, you could have handled it better. You're a 50-year-old guy, you told her it was a hard limit and you went along with it anyway. Take some personal responsibility for your actions instead of blaming the dominant. Next time, when you say no, mean it and don't make excuses about wanting to please her, couldn't see any other way, blah, blah, blah.

LadyPact -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/21/2011 4:07:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 BTW, thanks for sharing, Lady Pact. One of the things that has often frustrated me about the message boards on CM is that we seldom share our personal experiences. Everyone seems to be so reluctant about providing wank material, that we never share details about what we actually do and enjoy. So this exchange has been appreciated. You're welcome. Every once in a while, I pull out the good memories. Lol.

cloudboy -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/21/2011 9:13:30 PM)
Literal BDSM logic holds that everything that goes wrong is the submissive's fault. Arguably everything the Mistress or Master wants, the sub should grant or they are not being submissive. Your example is a perfect expression of this trap which Domme's can spring at any time. I'd don't know the answer in your case, arguably you did the right thing (stood up for yourself) or the wrong thing (didn't submit.) As an adult, you have to decide as best you can. Fatherly advice would remind you not to internalize kink misalignment.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/22/2011 2:45:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Literal BDSM logic holds that everything that goes wrong is the submissive's fault. Arguably everything the Mistress or Master wants, the sub should grant or they are not being submissive. If that's true then 'literal BDSM logic' (if such a thing exists) has no place in the real world dealing with real life interactions. Almost every response on this thread has said that the woman was behaving inappropriately and that either the fault lies with her for her behaviour or with him for not picking a better partner - I don't recall a single post saying he ought to have done what she asked in order to be submissive. So either everyone on this thread is wildly 'literally' illogical, or your 'logic' (using the term loosely) is a really fucked approximation of the world.

SexyBossyBBW -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/22/2011 2:58:49 AM)
I agree with LadyPact that not all limits are carved in stone. One can usually get a good feel for how flexible/suggestible one's sub is. For some men, hard limits are exactly that, and no amoung of coersion will change that. Pushing limits can be fun, but not when the sub insists "no, no, I don't believe I could ever do this maam." M

Nanako -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/22/2011 4:45:28 PM)
I would have so done it, but that's just me ^^

MistressTorture -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/22/2011 5:23:45 PM)
If it was meant to be it would have worked out.

JBondage -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/22/2011 10:15:12 PM)
Wow so many great comments here, thank you all for responding. I have to take some of the blame here after all I should have walked out as soon as I felt she was being unreasonable. However, for the most part our relationship was one that I cherished and up until she started to drift away I was in sub heaven. I was seriously smitten. I am a pleaser, I wanted to make her happy, she knew this and wanted to move in a direction I was not willing to go. I expect that my limits to her were not as important as her desires. At least she still respected my use of safe words. At the time it was not a simple choice, life seldom is. You just live as things play out and ponder the choices latter. Of course I am an engineer so thats the way I tend to roll. I think Mistress Torture has it down pat, it was just not meant to be. Also as I have been considering moving this from a hard limit to a soft one. Not so much that I am interested in the act but have wondered just how much "Force" it would take for me to actually do it. Or she turned me into a raving homosexual. Time to ponder that.

WyldHrt -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/22/2011 11:11:43 PM)
quote: Literal BDSM logic holds that everything that goes wrong is the submissive's fault. Arguably everything the Mistress or Master wants, the sub should grant or they are not being submissive. I think that is actually 'literary BDSM logic', because the only place I've seen that kind of fucked up reasoning is in bad BDSM porn stories. YMMV, [sm=2cents.gif]

HannahLynHeather -> RE: How could I have handled this better? (4/23/2011 12:22:42 AM)
my last relationship ended over a very similar sort of thing. my mistress decided that i would submit to her boyfriend as well as her. well i don't submit to men, that's a hard limit. i'll have sex with them, sure, but not submit. i told her no. well she started with the same sort of bullshit yours did. i thanked her for 3 good years, packed my few belongings, got in my car and left. from the time she broached the subject till i drove out of the driveway was about 1-1/2 hours. my hard limits are there for a reason, and i won't stand for them being pushed. hannah lynn don't ask, just assume its different, controversial, somewhat confusing and bound to piss a bunch of you off.

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